Maryland mom kills 2 of her children during attempted exorcism

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


So............you think religion had NOTHING to do with this?

windword
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

So............you think religion had NOTHING to do with this?

What gives you that idea?

-FBB

EDIT
Since I doubt you have actually read carefully any of the reports or my posts for that matter, those charged with the murder literally said they had to stab the demons out of the children.

The general perception is that this woman is of some denomination of Christianity, so there should be evidence of what exorcism rites involve. No one was burned at a stake or dunked in water and there was no literature.

The woman has a history of mental illness.
Is every schizo murder a religious murder now?
/EDIT


EDIT 2
Would you say this man murdered his friend purely over his disbelief in a god?
Or maybe circumstances played a part?

Oakland man murders atheist after debating God’s existence
www.examiner.com...

Douglas Yim, 33 was found guilty of first-degree murder on Tuesday, Sept. 3, for shooting and killing Dzuy Duhn Phan, 25. Yim killed Phan after a night of partying with alcohol and coc aine, playing video games, and arguing about the existence or nonexistence of God

. . .

Park said that Phan was teasing Yim about his belief in God, asking Yim where God was every time Yim lost the video game. According to Park, things escalated when Yim became enraged and grabbed his gun after Phan asked Yim where God was when Yim’s father died of a stroke several years earlier.

Just curious what your stance is on cases like this?
/EDIT 2

FriedBabelBroccoli

windword
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

So............you think religion had NOTHING to do with this?

What gives you that idea?

-FBB

EDIT
Since I doubt you have actually read carefully any of the reports or my posts for that matter, those charged with the murder literally said they had to stab the demons out of the children.

Yeah?

The general perception is that this woman is of some denomination of Christianity,

So?

so there should be evidence of what exorcism rites involve.

You think everyone is Catholic and performs "Catholic" ritual exorcisms, set up with instructions that MUST be followed like an Ikea bookcase?

Sheesh!

No one was burned at a stake or dunked in water

This wasn't called a "Witch Trial", it was called an Exorcism.

and there was no literature.

So what?

The woman has a history of mental illness.

Right....I can't imagine any other logical reasoning behind what, seems to me as a drug induced, manic schism in reality, based in some Christian based cult background, such a Santoria:

Santería, also known as La Religión, Regla de Ocha, La Regla Lucumí or Lukumi,[1][2] is a syncretic religion of West African and Caribbean origin influenced by and syncretized with Roman Catholicism

Ergo: Exorcism!

Is every schizo murder a religious murder now?

Stop playing the martyr! You said it yourself, they were "stabbing the "demons" out of the children". Who said that? The murderers did. What is that called, right or wrong? An exorcism!

reply to post by windword


Do you have any evidence they were practicing Santeria or any religion in particular?

Oh that is right . . . you are just making assumptions.

So are you going to address where in this thread I stated that religion had nothing to do with this?

Or are you going to make another pointless rant?

-FBB

History of mental illness...that pretty much says it for me. Most likely she's on some sort of drug cocktail and the effects of those chemicals fried her mind---or she has been on some such medication and for unknown reason/s she suddenly stopped them. I know personally of two murders, both within 100 miles of my home that occurred under those circumstances; sudden cessation of medications led a person to stab another to death in a completely calm manner and walk away.
And in the matter of "demons" I've also heard two people, completely independent of each other, say that when they took the stop-smoking drug, Chantrix, they had hallucinations in which they saw their grandchild as a "demon." Scared both of them so badly that they got off the drug immediately. Both their doctors laughed---literally laughed at them when they recounted this horrible thing that had happened to them.
If blame is to be placed, I'd point first to the pharmaceuticals and the "mental health care INDUSTRY" before I began pointing at religion.
Again, it's the dirty little secret that you won't hear about on the news because big pharma has bought out the media lock, stock and barrel with advertising money.
Now, if there are other instances of similar behavior in the church that she attended, let us hear about it, otherwise, I'd say religion had nothing to do with these murders. A toxicology screen of her blood at the time of the acts would tell a lot, but I'm guessing, just like the other anthropologist was guessing in the interview. He's a cultural anthropologist, I lean more toward the forensics aspects.

Grimpachi

How does something like this happen? Their pastor didn't have any idea that something was wrong. This is sad, sick, and just plain crazy. None of it makes any sense to me. I think there has to be more to the story than what people are saying.

Excorcisms should be legalized and made legitimate so others could know and assist and prevent use of physical force, since it's not a physical thing. There would be a lot more jobs, people would have a choice what to believe in and spirituality overall would become better. Instead of ridiculing it so people don't want to talk about what their neighbours might be doing for fears of ridicule or association.

Make it the same as psychiatry, which shouldn't be too difficult since they imply they have cures for whatever they think they see in other people that is evil but people get killed by side effects none the less.

reply to post by spiritspeak


Well the only problem I have with what you wrote is that I am pretty sure exorcisms are not illegal. I certainly do not know of any laws against them if in fact they are then can you please elaborate.

gardener
Religious & American fearmongering...

hard at work!

MOre like, plain old crazy.

I've yet to see anything in the literature where "stabbing" is a form of exorcism in any religious denomination out there currently (absent some obscure cult I guess). However, stabbing with some sort of sacred knife HAS been a consistent theme seen in several movies--one of the Omen movies, The Gate, the Golden Child, etc. One wonders if her insanity was influenced more by the popular culture's portrayal of demons than an actual theological basis.

There is really not enough on this story yet (drugs, mental illness) but the fact that the mom fled tells me she knew what she was doing was wrong. It sounds like a case of severe mental illness where mental defect won't help in court.

Women flipping out and killing their children is a phenomena older than the hills.

The two women claim that they witnessed the children's eyes turn black and saw a black cloud floating above them. After unsuccessfully attempting to break the first child's neck, and subsequently choke him, they both stabbed him and claim that the demon then began to jump between the other children and even Sanford herself, who Avery attacked as well. When their perceived battle ended, the two youngest children had died from stab wounds and Avery's 5 and 8-year-olds, also stabbed, were in critical condition.

The women then showered and “prepared the children to see God” by washing their bodies and wrapping them in blankets. They both had attended a local congregation where participants dance out their demons and decided that a more extreme response to the demon problem was needed and formed Demon Assassins. Pastor Joyce said Avery and Sanford were not members of his church at the time of the murders. Investigators said Demon Assassins is a four person group but I didn't find any information on the other two members.

One woman according to police, had tried to commit suicide twice in recent years. The children's mother, Zakieya Avery, had once been involuntarily committed for mental health reasons. So far I have not found any report saying drugs were involved.

The hearings for each woman underscored how the case appears to be a jumble of belief in demonic possession laced with some level of mental illness.

Avery and Sanford met at Exousia Ministries, a Germantown church that meets in a local elementary school on Sundays, said Capt. Marcus Jones, commander of the police department's Major Crimes Unit. While there, Avery was part of a dance group and started calling herself a demon assassin, he said. But it didn’t set off any alarms because she didn’t talk about violence.

“She was basically saying that her job — as of lover of Christ — was that she was going to keep demons away from her,” Jones said. “That was part of her and Ms. Sanford’s goal.”

Detectives spoke to the pastor of the church, asking him if he had any concerns about the name. “He thought it was a little bit eccentric,” Jones said, “a little bit over the top.” But he didn’t think there was anything violent. There weren’t “any spoken words about exorcisms that would occur,” Jones said.

Is this what can happen when mental illness combines with strange beliefs? At least one was given a psychiatric evaluation but I have not read what the results were.


Links for the info below.

Prosecutor: Md. women held in toddlers’ deaths called themselves ‘demon assassins’

ATTY: EXORCISM MURDER SUSPECTS CALLED SELVES "DEMON ASSASSINS"

Maryland women accused of killing children were part of ‘Demon Assassin’ exorcism cult

Exousia Ministries