I Need To Get This Off My Chest

reply to post by darkbake


No coffee or tea ! MAN ! They are tough !

reply to post by whitewave


Ancient Greece accepted homosexuality and was very successful - in fact, a lot of our current Democracy is based on Greece. The Greeks had great mathematicians like Pythagoras and Euclid - as well as great philosophers like Plato and Aristotle -

Where is all this Hatred and Ignorance in the name of the Lord coming from? It is a stain on His Honor. I hate to break it to you guys, but Ignorance and Hatred aren't gonna get you into Heaven any faster...

reply to post by whitewave


I once read where David Rockefeller funds gay rights as a part of his population reduction agenda . He stated on video that the world needs an 80% reduction in population . Other of his fellow eugenics associates in the Globalist arena want a larger reduction . The Rockefeller foundation funds a lot of birth control projects .

reply to post by SimonPeter


This is an angle I am more inclined to take seriously. Another aspect of this - atheist birth rates vs. religious birth rates.

If the intelligent people become atheists and don't like the idea of traditional families, while the less intelligent people maintain traditional families and have a lot of kids, that is a recipe for breeding ignorance and thus a more easily controlled populace.

It is a dangerous duality - where what we need is more middle ground. We need sane scientists who do not reject all tradition that binds us - yet also do not reject evidence that is clearly laid out in front of them.

The Catholic Church was given evidence that the Earth orbits the sun, and was given evidence that the Earth was not flat - and they changed their doctrine. Hundreds of years ago. We don't need to go backwards, that is not in our best interest -

And it is not in God's interest for his people to be Deceived about the nature of the world he created, either.

violet
You have a right to your opinion.
It's true, religious beliefs are not the cause of people not agreeing with homosexuals. I'm sick and tired of it.
Personally I am turned right off by lesbians. I'm female heterosexual. However I don't mind seeing two men together. Touching each other, not too graphic, mind you. I was disappointed when I lost my free preview of the gay channel.
I'm a crotchwatcher

You are way funny!!!!!!!!!!!! Crotchwatcher! I am still laughing at that one!

As a Male Hetero, I am not Even into seeing two women, and esp. two men doing it or making out.

Though, I still will catch, "Friends" re-runs on occasion for, you know...... It must be cold on the set much of the time! Gods Gift to us!

OrphanApology
Either way, what two adults do with their bodies and their lives is their business. If two men want to sign contracts with each other(marriage) it's their business. If a obese man and woman want to, it's their business too.

I agree with this as well, but I'd like to approach it from a different angle.

Let's say prenatal treatments become available, one prevents homosexuality, one prevents homophobia. Which would you choose?

reply to post by Bone75


yes you do

Me being the brother of a lesbian and my wife being the sister of a lesbian, from families that are religious and pretty much against this, have become enlightened.

Although I have become accepting of homosexuality, I still yet to understand it. My hope is that this is a minority trait simply due to the fact that we will lose our population if not. I realize this is a long way down the road and I am jumping the gun. Looking at other primates and such, it seems to be against the grain of simple truth of life. I only hope this doesn't become a thing to do to get attention.

Having children in middle and high school, it seems to be a trend. This is not like dressing as a gothic or something, it is a life choice. I have no problem with it, I just hope that decision is made for the right reasons and not because it is a fad.

My two cents

reply to post by Bone75


I wouldn't choose either. Human sexuality doesn't fit in boxes and having magical pills to make fetuses turn "straight"(a label not a state of being btw) is a misunderstanding of human sexuality.

There will always be same sex attractions and same sex relationships because humans are complicated sentient beings that have very complex social structures and interactions.

Attraction is a mixture of so many things, one of them being genitalia. For most of us we genuinely have a great preference of one type of genitalia and body structure over the other. For others perhaps they prefer the way one sex has been socially conditioned as opposed to the other. For others it may be that they are attracted to one person because they have an amazing connection even though they are normally attracted to one type of genitalia.

It happens all the time.

The only way to create a pill to make everyone "straight" is to create a pill that would erase every unique feature of every person that's a culmination of both nature and experience. Basically when we become emotionless clones with no sentient thought.


edit: Got deleted but last line:

That goes for a pill that erases homophobia as well. You would be erasing personal experience as it is a result of social conditioning. Like the film "Sunshine of a Spotless Mind".

reply to post by darkbake


I don't recall spewing any hatred of the lord; was just asking a question. I asked because it seems there are certain behaviors that are not conducive to an orderly society; homosexuality being one (of many). As for ancient Greece, the more effete Athens would have been overrun with Persians had it not been for the more manly Spartans.

Personally, I'm disgusted by watching anybody have sex on tv. Honestly, is there nothing these actors won't do for money? I'm not interested in watching porn of any flavor and the explicit sex scenes are not even germane to the storyline. I don't think sex is a spectator sport and I don't participate in voyeurism.

darkbake
reply to post by OrphanApology

 

Ah yes Orphan - I agree with this point -

In another matter - I disagree with the O.P. that he was born with a hatred towards homosexuals. I also disagree with his notion that a dislike of watching gay sex scenes is a logical precedent for hating gay people.

I didn't say I was born with hatred towards gay people, I said I recognized my capacity for it due to my natural disposition. I don't hate anyone, not even my ex-wife... okay maybe just a little but nobody's perfect right?

reply to post by Bone75


I wasn't going to use either of the pills until I realized that getting rid of homophobia would only be getting rid of irrational fears, leaving someone free to make an informed and correct decision.

I am all for getting rid of irrational fears, delusions and making decisions based on reality.

The person, without homophobia, might still dislike certain gays or even gay sex for reasons other than homophobia, and could very likely remain straight.

I think anyone who is grossed out by homosexuals have problems they need to address because it's a waste of time to get upset over them or give them any kind of attention because of that subject. Now I understand anything else but a negative emotion and the average gay will cling unto you as if you accept that person into your life so it cannot be any other way, but the gross reaction might be down to 1% out of the 100% it normally is, depending on the gay activities. It must be there otherwise one might end up seen as belonging to that group of gays because it's either you are with them or against them like in all things.

Also what is the difference with someone having mental problems, people don't gross out because of them and if they do they should be ashamed. I can understand this because for most it's either the choice between grossing out (negative reaction because of different beliefs) or liking it and then it's a small nudge to get 'turned' or a lot of nudges over the years leading to disassociation with the signals from the body to the mind and general loss of spirit. So just have compassion for them, if only because they won't know the joys of male/female love and creating babies out of love, like God meant, or whatever religious authority. They will just have to make their own version of Christianity because that is only fair, or go with Newage.

"Homophobe" refers to a phobia of homosexuals/homosexuality. Revulsion is an entirely different response. I don't like butterbrickle ice-cream; I'm repulsed by it but I do not have a paralyzing fear of it. To automatically label anyone who is repulsed by homosexuality as a "homophobe" is not only inaccurate but it's insulting. Are homosexuals "heterophobes"? Probably not in any greater numbers than heterosexuals are homophobic.

Bone75

darkbake
reply to post by OrphanApology

 

Ah yes Orphan - I agree with this point -

In another matter - I disagree with the O.P. that he was born with a hatred towards homosexuals. I also disagree with his notion that a dislike of watching gay sex scenes is a logical precedent for hating gay people.

I didn't say I was born with hatred towards gay people, I said I recognized my capacity for it due to my natural disposition. I don't hate anyone, not even my ex-wife... okay maybe just a little but nobody's perfect right?

Well I'm kind of neutral on the subject in your O.P. - I can see a little bit for and against the point - so I'll give you an example from my own experience that backs up your point.

One of my friends used to be bullied by gays (for some odd reason) in his hometown, so he ended up disliking them. Also, about the dislike of gay sex scenes, I'm not certain, but I could definitely see that not being religious based -

I personally dislike having irrational thoughts, but yeah, I have them as well.

Also, on your point about not liking to watch gay sex on television - I don't think that has to be based on religion either, right? I'm not even sure if it is illogical - it looks painful and I start thinking about sanitation issues.

reply to post by whitewave


Ah I agree on this point. I'm still not sure if I was accurate in determining the O.P.'s post - Game of Thrones has fairly graphic sex scenes, by the way -

whitewave
reply to post by darkbake

 

As for ancient Greece, the more effete Athens would have been overrun with Persians had it not been for the more manly Spartans.

Well the Spartans would have gay sex as part of their training with their masters - it was part of their culture, as well - here is a Wikipedia article.

Homosexuality in the Militaries of Ancient Greece.

Some Greek philosophers wrote on the subject of homosexuality in the military. In Plato's Symposium, the interlocutor Phaedrus commented on the power of male sexual relationships to improve bravery in the military:[3]

... he would prefer to die many deaths: while as for leaving the one he loves in a lurch, or not succoring him in peril, no man is such a craven that the influence of Love cannot inspire him with a courage that makes him equal to the bravest born

So having gay sex increased the bonds with your fellow armed men and thus your strength in battle.

OrphanApology
reply to post by Bone75

 

I wouldn't choose either. Human sexuality doesn't fit in boxes and having magical pills to make fetuses turn "straight"(a label not a state of being btw) is a misunderstanding of human sexuality.

There will always be same sex attractions and same sex relationships because humans are complicated sentient beings that have very complex social structures and interactions.

Attraction is a mixture of so many things, one of them being genitalia. For most of us we genuinely have a great preference of one type of genitalia and body structure over the other. For others perhaps they prefer the way one sex has been socially conditioned as opposed to the other. For others it may be that they are attracted to one person because they have an amazing connection even though they are normally attracted to one type of genitalia.

It happens all the time.

The only way to create a pill to make everyone "straight" is to create a pill that would erase every unique feature of every person that's a culmination of both nature and experience. Basically when we become emotionless clones with no sentient thought.

That goes for a pill that erases homophobia as well. You would be erasing personal experience as it is a result of social conditioning. Like the film "Sunshine of a Spotless Mind".

Well personally, if such treatments were available I would choose both. Even though I'm going to love my children more than anything in the world whether they turn out gay or not, I can't deny the fact that suicide rates among teenage homosexuals is staggering and bullying of gay kids is beyond our control.

I wonder how a gay kid born in a time when such treatments are readily available would feel about your decision, knowing you had the option of sparing him all the hate.

reply to post by darkbake


Your wiki link states: Various ancient Greek sources record incidents of courage in battle and interpret them as motivated by homoerotic bonds. (emphasis mine). I think maybe the wiki interpretation is a case of not seeing the world the way it is but seeing it the way we are.

Their incidents of courage in battle couldn't be because they were honorable, brave, motivated, highly trained, patriotic but because they were homoerotic? No doubt in any same sex population (prison, military, etc.) there will be incidents of homosexuality but I hardly think it's the norm, then or now.

In Response to an earlier question about homosexuality and governments and what not, Just thought I would add some fuel to the fire in this rant thread. I personally don't feel one way or the other on the issue, but I enjoy reading people's opinions. Here are some more recent govt officials from a few places that are openly homosexual, with links to information about them.

Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir
Iceland - Prime Minister
advocate page
Wiki Page

Gianni Vattimo - wrote a book about it
Italy - European Parliament (Also a Catholic who welcomed god's death for his sins)
Wiki Page
His Autobiography

Tammy Baldwin
US Congress - Wisconsin (house of representatives) (Openly gay before election)
Wiki Page
CNN Video+Article


Peter Mandelson
European Union
UK Telegraph
Wiki Page

Scott Brison
Canada - Federal Cabinet Minister
Wiki Page
CTV News

There are a lot more but I do not see a need to continue posting links, I feel that should give you somewhere to start, so here is a nice pretty list of names

Wiki List


reply to post by whitewave