Hypogeum of Ħal-Saflieni history of a non human civilization?

reply to post by dragonridr


I believe all underground constructions of 'non human' creatures date from before the Great Flood (12.600 years ago).
Civilizations that came thousands of years later used them, restored them, made them larger ...

www.evawaseerst.be...

It was a vault. Some kind of underground bunker to protect so called "chosen" people from world changing disasters.

reply to post by sczmaster


I dont think the bunker worked then

Carved from solid rock. When discovered it contained the bodies of over 7,000 people

dragonridr




Well i think it was a temple even has an unusual feature theres a hole you can talk into that amplifies your voice allowing it to be heard throughout the temple complex.

That reminds me of this quote. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

Some smart thinker probably used this feature to game the local populace into giving them some power and authority.

There are many strange features under the waters of the mediteranean that are obviously of man made origin, the Hypogeum is only a small part of a much larger jigsaw which in I believe to be far older than the official estimates, the possible link to the knights of malta is interesting indeed but other storys less verifiable but similar exist from other parts of the world, near avebury there is a stone circle that a church has been built over like many churches in england and scotland but this one has a folk tale linked that is interesting now I have tried to track it down on the net to no avail so will have to quote from memory meaning this will be a bland retelling.
The story as I remember was about two young men whom found inside one of the local barrows where there is a spiral pattern engraved into the stone a supposed secret entrance to an underground passage, one played his flute and went under but the other could hear him above so followed the sound of the flute (now it was from the 17th century as far as I can remember so though I doubt that anyone could hear a flute above ground this was the tale), he followed the flute for hours to a church that was built over an old stone circle where the sound of the flute suddenly stopped, when he and others searching for the missing boy searched the barrow the entrance had disappeared.
But of course there are much closer mysteried that can actually be verified in the general region,

Here are a few interesting site's not directly linked but in a similar vein
home.comcast.net...
apocalisselaica.net... inaria-civilta-perduta-di-giganti
www.forbiddenhistory.info.../45
www.youtube.com...

If the Hypogeum is the work of either another race or more ancient than orthodox archeology would like us to believe then it explains in part the modern sanitization and corruption of the site, still if there was one buried there may be more untouched elsewhere and I believe there have been rumors in malta of access through basements into lost caverns, remember the similar tale from turkey were a seven level (maybe more but they lower levels are filled by collapse) underground city that could house up to 20.000 people but was more likley for a few thousand with grain stores.

reply to post by LABTECH767


Thanks for the read, I believe all stories derive from something, just some may be more fantasy than reality. But its all we have nowadays, like a skeleton we can see what a site has become and know the stories that may be associated but the life it lived? Always hard to unearth.

The rumors are all over Malta with people trying to dig themselves a basement and then stumble on to graves or man made tunnels. Some proven and some not. Unfortunatly I heard of a rumor that there was a 'Mark 2' version of the Hal-Saflieni Hypogeum in Zejtun on Tal-Barrani Road (Lies close to the Hal-Saflieni Hypogeum and Tarxien Temples Wiki... Tas-Silg where a local farmer found over 3000 skeletal remains. Then destroyed them and the complex underneath to allow construction permits to rebuild his Farmhouse. This pattern of descruction in Malta is common because the country might as well be a museum with no housing or any where to work if everything was preserved. The Maltese Goverment knows this and selects certain projects to go ahead or to be 'buried' and litterally for that matter. Back in 1990s 3 more small temple sites were found within walking distance to Ghar Dalam but as so much funding was already placed into Ghar Dalam the order was to have 2 of the sites buried again after photo and sample collection and the 3rd has remained behind a sheet metal fence ever since. In the future there are plans to re-enquire into the sites all over Malta but at this time. Not going to happen.

dragonridr

Harte
Dolichocaphalic skulls are one of three types classified by anthropology, back when skull shape was thought to mean more than we today know it does.

This sort of skull is typical of Caucasian (including, but not limited to, Nordic peoples and ancient British peoples) and Negroid types but not the Mongoloid type.
From wiki:

Observable craniofacial differences included: head shape (mesocephalic, brachycephalic, dolichocephalic) breadth of nasal aperture, nasal root height, sagittal crest appearance, jaw thickness, brow ridge size and forehead slope. Using this skull-based categorization, anthropologists[who?] identified three or four racial groups;
Caucasoid characterized by a tall dolichocephalic skull, receded zygomas, large brow ridge and projecting-narrow nasal apertures.
Negroid characterized by a short dolichocephalic skull, receded zygomas and wide nasal apertures.
Mongoloid characterized by a medium brachycephalic skull, projecting zygomas, small brow ridge and small nasal apertures.

As unusual as the underground site may be, the skulls are not unusual in the least.

Harte

Your right it is a type however has nothing to do with these skulls as far as being different from us. Look at these and tell me its caucasoid they are elongated not up but back i hate to say this but just like the aliens on predator. No that doesnt mean i think they were aliens but possibly another species.

Now the strange part is most of these skulls have disappeared and very few remain which i find strange considering there was 7000 bodies found in the caverns.

edit on 1/19/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

for a homo sapien to have been born with that pronounced skull elongation (particularly like the Peruvian ones), it'd be unusual and classified as an abnormality.

reply to post by Maltese5Rhino


You are correct, the rumor of treasure would also have caused irreperable damage in the past, speaking of unreliable sources here are some that may if any of the deeper ones can be proves suggest that civilization did exist at the glaciel maximum of the last ice age.
www.beforeus.com...
I particularly like the claim about Mont st Michel but don't know if there is any voracity to it, Still the Hypogean is the best preserved undateable ancient structure that we know of as well as being of a very high level of technical excellance, I would like to believe that the story of the white ape's may have some truth but then it may be unlikely and if they were real the question would arise how have they survived so long underground and what exactly are they, something tells me that the modern human race is not the first intelligent hominid capable of forming a civilisation and though we have no evidence of high culture for the neanderthal for instance we now know they could speak perfectly well, as well as us so it was probably only there shorter lives and higher calory and protiene requirements that kept them back, still just as we have genius and mundane today there may have been smarter groups of neanderthal that we have simply not identified, there remains and artifacts could very well be misclassified as modern human.

reply to post by reject


They are interesting, no obvious signs of flattening, even today there are marked differences between people from different parts of europe never mind the world, the slavic people have a different shape skull to the western europeans especially the celt's. They had pointier taller head's as opposed to the rounder braoder skulls but they difference are negligable and can be missed as they are so subtle, these however would have looked totally different, could they perhaps have been the seed race whom started the civilisation ball rolling, what was the cubic capacity of there cranium when compared to other humans of the same estimated period, shape is less important than size in this case and could be down to merely a level of isolated inbreeding, a good example is rappa nui (easter island) one man had a hole in his knee cap, after several generations the entire island had the hole in there knee caps.

Interesting thread. I didn't know dolichocephalous skulls were there. That can only happen with non homo genetics (are there any primates with dolichocephalous skulls?)

Malta is definitely a hotbed of animal-human hybridisation if the ancient accounts are based upon real events. It would make sense to have some of these skulls pop up too.

One thing Id like to add, There isnt any acount of the 7000 skeletons to have 7000 elongated skulls. And all picture reference I have found at least only shows one or two of the same skulls in the same showcase. I think if there where 7000 people, then there is bound to have at least a couple of odd balls in there.

I have found some more linked information regarding the skulls.....

The Maltese skeletal archaeological record shows evidence of congenital abnormalities which date to the Palaeolithic era, circa 18,000 years ago. Two teeth with taurodontism (figure 1) were found in association with remains of Cervus (deer) [5]. Taurodontism was a common feature in Homo neanderthalis, but in a minor form is also found in modern man, particularly in association with genetic anomalies such as the presence of an extra X or chromosome 21 and Prader Willi syndrome. Neolithic skeletal remains excavated from Brochtorff Circle at Xaghra (Gozo) have identified other congenital skeletal malformations and non pathological anomalies.

The Health of the Maltese Population

Sorry still cant get the pictures to work but there is on the link above accounts of a 3 legged (conjoined) child and other abnormalities in Malta.

We do still today have a genetic problem.... Mainly becuase it was only in recent history that the major Maltese Families stopped interbreeding and most of the Maltese families tend to be so large that we accidentaly imbreed. Sounds funny I know, but it happens Only Takes a couple generations to completely forget where the original Family line was from and ends up going back into the fold

current thinking suggests that neanderthals occasionally interbred with humans, as proven by looking at gene sequences. I know that neanderthals died out about 25,000 years ago but it makes you wonder what the hybrids would look like and what their descendants would look like after say 10,000 years. Neanderthals were known for their elongated skulls.

templar knight
current thinking suggests that neanderthals occasionally interbred with humans, as proven by looking at gene sequences. I know that neanderthals died out about 25,000 years ago but it makes you wonder what the hybrids would look like and what their descendants would look like after say 10,000 years. Neanderthals were known for their elongated skulls.

Interesting never considered if some cross species might have survived in secluded areas. I suppose its possible see my problem with attributing this to deformities is there was more than one so im not convinced the elongated skulls were homosapiens. They lived long lives which would also be rear of people with birth defects at that time. This had to be normal to them or at least enough of them that somehow they endeared themselves to the local population. Maybe they were the priests you see similar things in egypt as well.Theres many statues in egypt with this same exact skull type.Which makes me wonder if there wasnt another group in the mediterranean who were either slightly different from us or not like us at all.

templar knight
current thinking suggests that neanderthals occasionally interbred with humans, as proven by looking at gene sequences. I know that neanderthals died out about 25,000 years ago but it makes you wonder what the hybrids would look like and what their descendants would look like after say 10,000 years. Neanderthals were known for their elongated skulls.

Neanderthal had been able to fashion some sort of sea going vessel and made it to both Crete and Malta so it's not a huge stretch to go off in the direction of adaptive, isolated Neanderthal or hybrid populations on Mediterranean islands. Just look at how the Pygmy Mammoths adapted to surviving on Crete. However the are no known Neanderthal specimens exhibiting this sort of elongated skull. While the occipital bun at the rear of their skull was more pronounced than H. S. Sapiens , its nothing like what presents in the skulls found at this site. Though in the interest of good science I wouldn't rule out anything 100% until any testing was completed on the few remaining skulls.

reply to post by dragonridr


Just to play devils advocate for a moment, it is in theory possible that some Neanderthal, H. Sapiens or hybrids the of were geographically isolated due to the rise of water levels in the Mediterranean producing a defector genetic bottleneck for all humans o the island. The was a recent discussion on ATS regarding a few families in Australia no had been living a very isolated life for approximately 5 generations IIRC and they were already exhibiting pronounced genetic abnormalities. It's not entirely out of the question that such an abnormality presented in these people in the form of elongated skulls. With no outside genetic material this would become more pronounced as the generations advanced farther from the original line. There's no way to know for certain until comprehensive genetic analysis is done in whatever remains are still intact. While a definitely possibility, I still think its remote but trying to understand the oddness of it past is part of what drew me to anthropology in the first place so I still try to keep a little of that childlike zeal intact.

reply to post by watchitburn


It does sound pretty intriguing. I know I've come across stories for years about races and lost civilizations dwelling below our feet. I've also heard about the whole hollow earth theory but don't know enough to comment credibly on it. It seems pretty far-fetched but who knows? I too look forward to the truth being unearthed on this thread.

reply to post by peter vlar


The Pigmy elephants were also in Malta as much as most of the Mediterranean Islands at the time. In Malta as the first human settlers arrived there was a complete 'topsy turvey' world with regards to life on the Island with Giant Swans, Dwarf Elephants Dwarf Deer and Giant Turtles. Most islands have this theme of certain animals being completely different in size compared to their continental counterparts.

Wiki Ghar Dalam

IMO its down to food, supply and demand and would make sense that swans and turtles can grow so big due to an island having a plenty of food available for sea feeding species. Vice versa for small animals that require vegetation which was a limited amount for a mostly limestone rock of an Island such as the Dwarf 'Pigmy' Elephants and the dwarf deer.

So with regards to a Hominid species in Malta they could have been affected in the same way, in Malta we have huge natural mercury deposits all over and mostly found in the caves and cavern systems where the first settlers dwelled in. With large amounts of mercury the human body can change very quickly. Such cases of blue hint of the skin and bone marrow deformities.
www.detox-heavymetals.com...

This added with a different diet to the rest of Mainland Africa and Europe over several thousand years could IMO be the cause for a species to develop different attributes.

Connecting this to the Hypogeum I have trouble with as the dating is all over the place, the actual facts of pre Homo Erectus in Malta are long before the Hypogeum was built, unless the one or the other dating tests was incorrect either the Temples and the Hypogeum or the dating of the pre Homo Erectus specimens found so far. Damn shame

reply to post by dragonridr


Our family holidays were spent in Malta over 40 yrs ago, we used to go every year. My parents made very good friends with some locals from Marsaskala (the Fava's) Lovely people very friendly. Even to this day they are still in touch with them, though they moved to New Zealand.

One day they wanted to show us some sites that were not on the normal "site seeing tours" at the time. They took us to these tunnels,the caretakers for the tunnels and had the keys to them where a close relation to our Maltese friends .

They where closed at the time. But we were shown around and the old chap that showed us around told of strange sounds coming from deeper in the tunnels, voice's that he couldn't quite understand. Neither he nor any of his co-workers ever went too deep without some one else been with them.

He also told the story of the school children disappearing and the subsequent searchers for them.

i have always wanted to return them, I did hear that you can only go into a very small portion of them....

reply to post by panicman66


Can you pinpoint the location of the entrance on google maps?

While we are exploring the cross-breeding output possibility. Looking at that extended skull. Now imagine what kind of changes would have to occur to allow this skull form to be a normal birth. Need an expert on that before we jump to any conclusion.

Another question is who they needed protection from by building underground. Perhaps they only way to hear whispers from their gods was in absolute silence. The sound amplification in the caves would make an excellent connection for that OR if some of the caves were connected at one time would this make a way to do longer range secure communication?