i didnt want to be "that" guy, but here it is, the reason the collapse is happening.

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posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by Hoosierdaddy71
 

The glitch from a general strike of the duration of one week would force a lot of businesses to close after a few months.

Almost everyone is running at threshold already.




posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by MyHappyDogShiner
 

Really, all that would happen would be that bigger businesses and corporations would scoop up a bigger market share from the businesses that failed .

What a tangled web we have weaved........



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by hurdygurdy
 

Globally would be a damn good place to start, but those with the resources will not allow it to be fixed.

They hold all of the keys, they even have the nukes to destroy the whole world if they can't keep control of it.

If they can't keep it or use it they will destroy it.

That's why I think there will be one of those attention grabbing wars or other event fairly soon.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 12:26 PM
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oblvion

St Udio
Sorry.... the 17 million migration in the USA was a Result of long term policies Not the Cause of the present economic (slow-motion) collapse



the reason for the continuing crisis was the creation of the Quadrillion dollar un-regulated Derivatives 'game'... the Alice-in-Wonderland, fiat money creation with no limits to betting-on-debt creation along with the expanding greed of the banker-finance network of industries is the 'seed' that has crippled the western world & the London-NY control of all the global finance & trade venues & regulators.


go listen to the golden jackass interview with the 'common sense show'
usawatchdog.com...

58:00 minutes audio is very apocalyptic


Beautiful, you are right in part, but flooding the jobs market with low cost workers did undercut the middle class, this is without question.


The problem I'm seeing here is that, it at least appears, that you are trying to solve an equation with only the second set of numbers and skipping the first set. In other words you are "blaming" policies which led to an influx of migrant workers from Latin America. This would be the second number set of the equation. The first that seems to be missing is what. Led migrant workers to shift from seasonal farm work to manufacturing. The answer to that goes back abut 70-80 years. The example I'm going to give may not be illustrative of every part of the US but I can say with 100% certainty that this is pertinent to manufacturing in the North East and how it disappeared. At the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th centuries, the city I grew up in had the highest number of millionaires per capita in the entire country. It's wealth was based almost entirely on textile manufacturing, primarily carpets. The wealthiest family, the Sanford's are also pretty famous for their horse racing empire from the 20's thru the late 50's. As this localised wealth benefited nearly everyone in the community in terms of well paying jobs, the bottom end had to fall out eventually as the mills still needed to profit but couldn't continue to do so at the level they were used to if they had to keep paying for the local manufacturing base. This came in the form of "cost cutting measures" emerging much as we see with current tech based industries. They relocated the mills to Mexico, a parallel to our current Asian outsourcing. These carpet mills in Mexico, even though the wages were significantly less than in the North East, were reasonably high when gauged for the local economy. Eventually these mills also closed and relocated leaving entire towns devoid of employment that they had come to count on, much like where I grew up. Today, the city I grew up in has less than 15,000 people in it from a high of nearly 50,000 in the 60's. I see this as a byproduct of greed not policy. It's is the byproduct of wealthy people and corporations wanting to maintain their status quo at any cost, including their local infrastructure and the communities that gave them that wealth. I'm to sure how you juxtapose the situations of Latin American immigrants as mostly illegal but most Asian immigrants are here legally especially in light of the fact that fewer people are crossing into America and many more are returning to Mexico. Asian immigrants are also surpassing Latin immigrants, both legally and illegally at the present moment. Additionally I wanted to add to one of your thoughts from the OP. I the US govt had handed out 1 trillion dollars to every person in the US instead of just bailing out corporations it amounts to roughly 3,000 dollars each. Not quite the windfall it seems you alluded to, unless you're talking ant a large Irish or Italian catholic family. If you've got 6 kids plus om and dad sure you're going to run to the bank but the average individual isn't going very far with 3 grand.
www.theatlantic.com...



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 12:26 PM
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This thread is amusing. A lot of good points from both sides of the argument. That said I've always been confused by 'illegal' immigration from any American area to another American area. How can a 'Mexican' come to United States of America illegally when in fact they are from 'Central America'?
Do we so easily forget that Mexicans and other Central and South American countries are all Native American "Indians"? They speak Spanish only because they were conquered into doing so.

We have to bring our industry back. That's the overall problem. It's not just who is working the jobs it's the fact we have less manufacturing to provide those jobs. Fresh out of high school I worked at a manufacturing plant. A few years in I relocated within the company because my line went to Mexico and India. Why? Cheaper labor there even though I was barely above minimum wage here. How much did they really save doing this? I'm sure it wasn't cheap sending laborers up to learn our job and then the cost of moving those big machines out of the country.

We've also shot ourselves in the foot with the cost of living and our wages growing too fast. It's similar to my current place of employment. My employers paid some individuals too high of wages to start their job and now other lower paid employees want a raise and there is nothing to give because those others employees are already promised to much money starting off. In the end there is no more room to grow financially and if the company doesn't make an already large amount each year to be able to afford those salaries they start laying people off and all the lower paid employees have to take up the slack without a raise to do so.

Economic collapse is going to happen. You may want to befriend an illegal and have them show you how to survive it.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 12:41 PM
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oblvion



Beautiful, you are right in part, but flooding the jobs market with low cost workers did undercut the middle class, this is without question.

yes indeed
they are a part of the troubles...but there is also operations like fast & furious that armed the drug cartels and forced many to flee a dangerous life and shelter situation in Mexico--- remember there were official industrial zones in Mexico where the local would be hired to man the Industrial plants of N American companies located in Mexico--- there was a tremendous effort to keep workers in Mexico at one time


the mass of people entering the USA was not intended to provide low cost labor for the unwanted Jobs in the U.S. --- the federal government made a deliberate effort to ignore the Mexicans & others sneaking over the border (for various reasons) see the federal gov't wanted a huge influx of people that need things to keep an economy running & to potentially augment the labor force that pays into social security (sooner-or-later)...

see the accountants can do dazzling long term models of Sovereign Solvency issues in regards to being able to pay Bonds/Treasury note interest on a ever mushrooming source of Revenues.... that my friend was the tipping-point which made illeagle-immigrants a non-issue
and their preordained Amnesty, and voter rights a matter of policy



so, how did the money-changers/Masters-of-the-Universe cause the Jobs to vaporize, not to undocumented aliens but to policies like NAFTA, offshoring jobs to India, SE Asia, etc... and cutting off cheap loans to companies for recurring payrolls... the higher loan fees made the business community profits even less - so culling the workforce was the direction that the companies went to maintain their P-E ratios...
all this was designed by the Globalist elites, for the federal govt to enforce the disruption & destruction of the middle-class economy of ever expanding credit..
in favor of ever expanding debit growth for the banker-finance industries to profit from with unethical and false bond products disguised as the plethora of CDS/MBS/ and a baker's dozen of fraudulent pieces of paper that have a zero-sum-gain prognosis, but do account for 10ths or hundredths of cents per transaction fee to the government tax revenue Digital storehouse



but i digress too far into the rabbit hole/matrix
edit on th31139015692019422014 by St Udio because: (no reason given)
edit on th31139015740719502014 by St Udio because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by TheLieWeLive
 


Don't think the difference between your hourly pay and a foreign workers hourly pay is the reason, it's not.
You cost a company your hourly pay, your social security, your workmans comp insurence. That doesn't include you healthcare expense and 401k contributions. A ten dollor an hour employee cost more like twenty an hour. China doesn't pay those costs.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by TheLieWeLive
 



Do we so easily forget that Mexicans and other Central and South American countries are all Native American "Indians"?


No, they are mainly Spanish. The Spanish were far more ruthless than the Brits. On their mother's side, they are native American, because the Spanish raped native American women at will, and sent off the men to slave labor, where they were worked to death. The daughters of native women were again breed with Spanish men, and so on, so there is a little Native America blood left over, but not much. Native Americans were practically hairless, most Mexicans have plenty of body hair, which is from the Spanish.

Latin America is still ruthlessly ruled by the descendants of the Spanish Conquistadors. They keep the people poor through ruthless control of the economies.

The super rich in the U.S. want the U.S. to be like Latin America. Once you realize this, then you have gained a much more accurate perspective on the issue.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 01:16 PM
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I truly believe we have a lot of jobs that only illegal aliens would want to do. Is it 17 million, I would not think so. What we can do and it is good for all including the illegal aliens is to start a very robust work visa program. Get these workers on the book so to speak with a limited visa sponsored by an employer. Secure the border and after a amnesty period to get registered if they are caught illegally then they are deported without a chance to come back as either a worker or immigrant.

This program is paid by them or their employer and the visa would only be valid for a period of work the employer is willing to support the worker, such as picking season. Children under the age of 18 can not use the worker visa program, and after maybe an actual amnesty for those kids who have spent most of their lives here we shut that part down too.

This may seem harsh but why do Mexicans and other south of the border people get some special pass over EVERYONE else in the world wanting to do the same thing? I have a sister in-law that has been waiting 10 years to come here legally with us sponsoring her, and she gets no special pass since I guess she is not a Mexican that sneaks into the country.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 01:20 PM
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TheLieWeLive

Do we so easily forget that Mexicans and other Central and South American countries are all Native American "Indians"? They speak Spanish only because they were conquered into doing so.



I'm sorry it is not the 14th century anymore... Can you name one other country that allows what we allow? I challenge you to sneak into Mexico and see what would happen....lol



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 





The daughters of native women were again breed with Spanish men, and so on, so there is a little Native America blood left over, but not much.


So the Spanish were able rape enough in 500 years to breed out most of the Native American blood on a continent the size of South America? Say what?



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 01:57 PM
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Xtrozero

TheLieWeLive

Do we so easily forget that Mexicans and other Central and South American countries are all Native American "Indians"? They speak Spanish only because they were conquered into doing so.



I'm sorry it is not the 14th century anymore... Can you name one other country that allows what we allow? I challenge you to sneak into Mexico and see what would happen....lol


I'm not sure why you think I would want to do that? I was just saying that they are Native American descendant. Nothing about the borders. Our borders are a joke. If they truly wanted to stop illegal immigration they could or at least put a heck of a damper on it.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 02:07 PM
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MyHappyDogShiner
reply to post by oblvion
 


I have been yacking about a "General Strike" for years, it would certainly point out who relies on whom, I think I have mentioned that on this forum several times over the years.

It's such a monkey see, monkey do...Keep up with the Jones's kind of world though, that one would have to somehow convince people that living frugally, even for one week is stylish somehow.

One week would completely collapse this economy, it would be better to be part of the collapse, maybe even the cause, than to keep accepting more misery and loss over a longer time.

But that is why there are so many distractions offered, to dull the pain...


It is 100% true that they need us, not the other way around.

We can fix cars, grow food, build houses...etc...

They only know talking and sitting plush chairs behind oak desks.

We, us regular folks, do everything of importance in the day to day world.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 02:12 PM
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The Vagabond
reply to post by oblvion
 


I disagree with your conclusion, although you've touched on some very relevant details.

We've lost the manufacturing jobs, not just had illegal immigrants fill them. Not only has labor supply risen, labor demand has decreased.

The purpose of illegal immigrants being allowed in is not strictly labor related either. They also serve as consumers even if they aren't employed. Every warm body in the US buys food and a few other things at US prices whether they beg borrow steal or take public funds to do it. This effectively kicks back an additional share of all payouts from govt and corporations back to those entities.

Of course any one who pays the rich for goods and services without the rich paying them anything first is good for the rich, not just illegals.
Wealth is redistributed upward when a consumers spending comes from any of the following sources: government borrowing for public assistance, crime against the poor, panhandling, selling of personal property, or wages paid by small business (Small business owner mortgages house, buys lawnmower, hires workers, the money gets spent and taxed, the business fails, bank takes the house- the rich win).

And if the underclass exists to buy rather than to work, even more money can be made or at least saved by putting less into education.

In short, it is a multitude of malfunctions which are being coordinated to move wealth from US government and citizens into multinational corporations and banks, and it lends credence to the idea that things never could have gotten this messed up by accident.


Very right you are.

It is my position, that none of this was an accident.

Remember all things are related, when A happens it effects all characters, even X Y and Z feel it.

Though you do make valid points about consumerism of the migrant working populous, though you aren't factoring enough for loss of well paying jobs from Americans, and them sending a lot back home, thus sucking wealth out of the system, not really adding it.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by oblvion
 


I think the problem is that wealth / capital / capitalism has become insufficient for society.

That is, the efficiency of technology has made our capitalistic world economy obsolete.

If capitalism is to remain, then we must reduce our technological efficiency. If we do not, the vast majority of humanity will become obsolete to the most technologically wealthy.

We must embrace open source technology and the progression of sustainability for all, or we will all succumb to the desires of the most technologically wealthy -- to which, most of us, are not desirable.
edit on 1/19/2014 by Bleeeeep because: technologically*



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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I have come to a couple of conclusions for an answer.

The illegals have always been a solvable problem but no one participates and it costs a lot less than a fence. E-verify catches a lot. I do not know why employers do not want to use it. I lived in Moses Lake, WA, big agriculture, rift with illegals. No one turns them in and everyone knows who they are. I know they live in fear of it happening. Because no one really wants to solve the problem because the answer is not an easy one. Welcome to life.

Money. Get rid of it. I don't know much about that bitcoin, but sounds like the right direction. Or trade skills, services, goods. Worked for a long time before money and all things and everyone was equal.

This is your one life.

In the blink of an eye you guys are going to be dealing with old age and the problems of your children. It never ends. You just die.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 02:25 PM
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The bubble we are in right now was created by those in charge of the money. All the immigrants did was get a chuck of the monopoly money that was going around. If I could work under the table i would in a heartbeat with no qualms what so ever. Most immigrants wont get out of the middle class. They aren't really taking a whole lot of money out of the economy, most live in houses or apartments in the US which they rent so a good chuck is going back to the landlord. They get gas, food and daily living supplies at our stores.
Sure they do send some money to mexico, but its only what is left over. Can't be more damaging then creating trillions of dollars out of thin air... Lets blame it on the low-to middle class working man. Not the only ones that will be able to survive said financial collapse..



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 02:29 PM
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MOMof3
I have come to a couple of conclusions for an answer.

The illegals have always been a solvable problem but no one participates and it costs a lot less than a fence. E-verify catches a lot. I do not know why employers do not want to use it. I lived in Moses Lake, WA, big agriculture, rift with illegals. No one turns them in and everyone knows who they are. I know they live in fear of it happening. Because no one really wants to solve the problem because the answer is not an easy one. Welcome to life.

Money. Get rid of it. I don't know much about that bitcoin, but sounds like the right direction. Or trade skills, services, goods. Worked for a long time before money and all things and everyone was equal.

This is your one life.

In the blink of an eye you guys are going to be dealing with old age and the problems of your children. It never ends. You just die.


Because their bosses and stock holders want them to use illegals because it is cheaper. Which means more money for them. Its just that simple.

So yes get rid of money, and dont you think bitcon can be just as easily manipulated? Get back on the gold system or a physical backing of a currency. Or like you said trade skills and goods



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 03:43 PM
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MyHappyDogShiner
reply to post by hurdygurdy
 

Globally would be a damn good place to start, but those with the resources will not allow it to be fixed.

They hold all of the keys, they even have the nukes to destroy the whole world if they can't keep control of it.

If they can't keep it or use it they will destroy it.

That's why I think there will be one of those attention grabbing wars or other event fairly soon.


I think something similar if we ALL don't come together at once and stop this.

BTW your scaring the #eout me right now, I was in combat arms, I can face threats to personal safety with a rational mind.

Please, by all means, continue sir, your going down the right path here.
edit on 19-1-2014 by oblvion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 03:54 PM
link   

peter vlar

oblvion

St Udio
Sorry.... the 17 million migration in the USA was a Result of long term policies Not the Cause of the present economic (slow-motion) collapse



the reason for the continuing crisis was the creation of the Quadrillion dollar un-regulated Derivatives 'game'... the Alice-in-Wonderland, fiat money creation with no limits to betting-on-debt creation along with the expanding greed of the banker-finance network of industries is the 'seed' that has crippled the western world & the London-NY control of all the global finance & trade venues & regulators.


go listen to the golden jackass interview with the 'common sense show'
usawatchdog.com...

58:00 minutes audio is very apocalyptic


Beautiful, you are right in part, but flooding the jobs market with low cost workers did undercut the middle class, this is without question.


The problem I'm seeing here is that, it at least appears, that you are trying to solve an equation with only the second set of numbers and skipping the first set. In other words you are "blaming" policies which led to an influx of migrant workers from Latin America. This would be the second number set of the equation. The first that seems to be missing is what. Led migrant workers to shift from seasonal farm work to manufacturing. The answer to that goes back abut 70-80 years. The example I'm going to give may not be illustrative of every part of the US but I can say with 100% certainty that this is pertinent to manufacturing in the North East and how it disappeared. At the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th centuries, the city I grew up in had the highest number of millionaires per capita in the entire country. It's wealth was based almost entirely on textile manufacturing, primarily carpets. The wealthiest family, the Sanford's are also pretty famous for their horse racing empire from the 20's thru the late 50's. As this localised wealth benefited nearly everyone in the community in terms of well paying jobs, the bottom end had to fall out eventually as the mills still needed to profit but couldn't continue to do so at the level they were used to if they had to keep paying for the local manufacturing base. This came in the form of "cost cutting measures" emerging much as we see with current tech based industries. They relocated the mills to Mexico, a parallel to our current Asian outsourcing. These carpet mills in Mexico, even though the wages were significantly less than in the North East, were reasonably high when gauged for the local economy. Eventually these mills also closed and relocated leaving entire towns devoid of employment that they had come to count on, much like where I grew up. Today, the city I grew up in has less than 15,000 people in it from a high of nearly 50,000 in the 60's. I see this as a byproduct of greed not policy. It's is the byproduct of wealthy people and corporations wanting to maintain their status quo at any cost, including their local infrastructure and the communities that gave them that wealth. I'm to sure how you juxtapose the situations of Latin American immigrants as mostly illegal but most Asian immigrants are here legally especially in light of the fact that fewer people are crossing into America and many more are returning to Mexico. Asian immigrants are also surpassing Latin immigrants, both legally and illegally at the present moment. Additionally I wanted to add to one of your thoughts from the OP. I the US govt had handed out 1 trillion dollars to every person in the US instead of just bailing out corporations it amounts to roughly 3,000 dollars each. Not quite the windfall it seems you alluded to, unless you're talking ant a large Irish or Italian catholic family. If you've got 6 kids plus om and dad sure you're going to run to the bank but the average individual isn't going very far with 3 grand.
www.theatlantic.com...


Wholly fricking text wall batman.........

OK, I meant all working Americans buy the one trillion dollar comment, but your right, I should have been more specific.

Even if it was 3K for each person, this is a lot of money, most workers don't make this a month BTW!!!!!!!!

Why would you give the same guys that already have as much money as God, and ran the economy into the ground on purpose for personal greed more money for doing so?





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