Some states look at reviving firing squads amid shortage of execution drugs

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posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 12:05 PM
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In light of the very prolonged death in the execution of Dennis McGuire in Ohio, we have this:


A shortage of a drug commonly used in executions has prompted lawmakers in at least two states to call for the return of firing squads.

Missouri state Rep. Rick Brattin, a Republican representing Harrisonville, introduced legislation Friday (.pdf) that would add five-person firing squads as an alternative to the state's current method of capital punishment, lethal injection.
Link

Now, this is not a debate about the humaneness of the death penalty. This thread seeks to debate what would in fact be a humane method of capital punishment, leaving aside the argument that capital punishment itself is always inhumane (with which I agree. I am opposed to the death penalty. Period).

When I first heard about the prolonged death of McGuire, I thought, "Wow, a firing squad would have been much faster...and cheaper." And then I saw the above article on Twitter.

I believe that the death penalty is always inhumane, and I take much of the reasoning from Albert Camus' Reflections on the Guillotine. While there are a variety of reasons arguing against it, the one thing that has always stuck with me is the notion of impending death, and how that is in itself inhumane (one could then argue that since everyone is going to die, everyone has that same anxiety, which I think i true, and why men fear death as a species: they are conscious of their mortality).


Yet it cannot be denied that men fear death. The deprivation of life is certainly the supreme punishment, and arouses in each of us his decisive fear. The fear of death, rising from the obscurest depths, ravages the self; the instinct for life, when threatened, panics and flounders among the most dreadful agonies.


So perhaps the "most humane" method of capital punishment is for it be unknown. Even though one might know one will be executed, perhaps the execution should come out of the blue (such as while sleeping). I am reminded of the execution in the film The Funeral (1996).

Now even, though the person still knows that one day he or she will be executed, which still creates anxiety (even though everyone will eventually die, naturally or otherwise), the fact that he/she is not led to death might make it "more humane?"

Again, this thread is NOT about whether or not capital punishment is humane itself, but about what would be the "most" humane method of capital punishment, even though that's slightly illogical.

edit on 18-1-2014 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 12:12 PM
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These people are on death row because they are cold callous murderers and such.
Did any of their victims receive such careful consideration before their lives were taken?

Why should the criminals get better treatment than the victims?

I say let the punishment fit the crime. If you rape and murder someone....

May you receive the same.

If you cut someone to watch them bleed out....

I think you get my standpoint.

Maybe I'm just an arsehole



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 12:15 PM
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I dont get the lethal injection. It seems a elaborate and expensive way to off someone.

Why not just give them a Morphine OD? Or a General anaesthesia then whatever.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 12:29 PM
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www.infoplease.com...

140 countries have abolished the death penalty.
The above link show those that have abolished it, and those that still have capital punishment.
Interesting.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


That makes too much sense, and isn't controversial enough. The US is a country based on controversy that then allows it all to become politicized.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 12:38 PM
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Where they going to get all the bullets from, thought your Homeland Security people had bought them all up.

Last time I was in a BassPro. store there wasn't much big cal. about, lots of buckshot, but that would be messy. Some mean looking crossbow bolt heads though, positively medieval some of them.

Capital punishment, sure as he'll doesn't stop 'em all, but thank God it acts as a deterrent for many.

Kill I.e.murder someone, then you should expect to be killed in return, if caught.

Humanely and quickly, although the relatives of your victim/s might think differently.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 12:46 PM
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Hell, we hung Saddam Hussein, let's re institute hanging as an official means of execution. At least that way you can re-use (think GREEN) the tool each and every time...

The ONLY way that I can see death by firing squad as being more humane is that you cannot guarantee how quickly a person will die from hanging.

A gunshot to the back of the head? I've never heard of someone surviving that. Oh, but wait, that's not a "firing squad"...that's an UGLY execution. Oh, no...something is UGLY in response to committing heinous crimes. What could I possibly be thinking (yes, this IS sarcasm).

I am pro execution as the ultimate punishment for our most heinous crimes. I firmly think that without it, people will simply be "ok" with the concept of entering a new world, one of being incarcerated. Where they still live.

What I think *IS* inhumane is the idea of making someone wait for years in a jail cell before death.

Now get this, in Japan...let's say when you are given a death sentence...they do NOT tell you how long you might have before the execution is performed. It could be today, it could be tomorrow. Or every single day, could be the day. The point is, every one of the prison staff could know that tomorrow is your time to go. Or even this afternoon. But not you. That, is inhumane in my opinion. But, neither is the fact that the guilty persons victim knew it was going to be their last moment, either. They didn't know "today" was the day.

I think that if a jury finds you guilty of certain crimes (mass murder, rape, etc), there should be a set amount of time that is fair enough to allow for a new trial. And if sufficient legal argument cannot be made within that time, the execution occurs. Like, within a period no longer than six months.
edit on 18-1-2014 by zeroBelief because: kahooha!



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 12:56 PM
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crazyewok
I dont get the lethal injection. It seems a elaborate and expensive way to off someone.

Why not just give them a Morphine OD? Or a General anaesthesia then whatever.


Well, the whole point behind lethal injection is that it works in two methods. The first is a super strong sedative. This alone *could* kill you. The second is something very much akin to morphine in that it basically shuts down your lung function.

Consider it a fail safe built into the process.

Here is Wikipedia to more completely explain it....


Lethal injection is the practice of injecting a person with a fatal dose of drugs (typically a barbiturate, paralytic, and potassium solution) for the express purpose of causing immediate death. The main application for this procedure is capital punishment, but the term may also be applied in a broad sense to euthanasia and suicide. It kills the person by first putting the person to sleep, and then stopping the breathing and heart, in that order.



And the link Wikipedia Lethal Injection

It was brought about as it is considered medically more humane. More "failsafe". But, as we have seen, it apparently is not.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 01:01 PM
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Here's another thought for an alternative to lethal injection...and one that I am quite serious about....

I used to be rather into herpetology......so, I ended up owning several snakes. My first snake, was a baby. Baby snakes naturally cannot just eat any old mouse, as the mouse is too large. So, in the wild, they tend to eat things like small insects...but, whenever possible, they'll eat baby mice typically referred to as "pinkies", because they are hairless and their skin is absolutely pink.

Well, here I am, with a bag full of a dozen live pinkies. I had to kill them, as any snake owner knows that there is less threat to the snake involved in eating a dead mouse than a live one. Live ones can actually survive the way down into the stomach, and actually chew/kick their way out.

My vet said that in her opinion, the best (and most humane) way to euthanize a mouse, was to freeze it. Put it in a baggie, and place it in the freezer. Death happens fairly quickly. You eventually start to feel very tired, sleepy. And it is also widely known that hypothermia brings on a sense of euphoria just before death.

Some might say the euphoria is a boon to the killer. But, it's still quick and efficient.
edit on 18-1-2014 by zeroBelief because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 01:01 PM
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shaneslaughta
These people are on death row because they are cold callous murderers and such.
Did any of their victims receive such careful consideration before their lives were taken?

Why should the criminals get better treatment than the victims?


Problem is, there are too many examples of INNOCENT people being on death row.

But, the real verifiable monsters.. I agree somewhat.

Guillotine.. cheap, effective and quick.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 01:05 PM
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Liquesence
Again, this thread is NOT about whether or not capital punishment is humane itself, but about what would be the "most" humane method of capital punishment, even though that's slightly illogical.



Large caliber hollow point through the head.

*BLAM*

Straight to the point. Dead. No frills, bells, whistles or other nonsense. Effective every time.

edit on 1/18/2014 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 01:10 PM
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HanzHenry

shaneslaughta
These people are on death row because they are cold callous murderers and such.
Did any of their victims receive such careful consideration before their lives were taken?

Why should the criminals get better treatment than the victims?


Problem is, there are too many examples of INNOCENT people being on death row.

But, the real verifiable monsters.. I agree somewhat.

Guillotine.. cheap, effective and quick.


I have somewhat, and only *just* somewhat, mixed feelings on this.

We are experiencing now a situation where decades ago, a person of color may have been sentenced to death and is only now about to go into the death house. I think that many men were falsely accused due to color, and are facing death penalties as a result today.

So, DNA is the answer. Prove that a person was there. Prove without a doubt that they were the perpetrator.

However, unfortunately, we know that DNA evidence can and has been tampered with in the past. Someone could even be "setup" with DNA evidence as being the murderer. I believe this is completely wrong. I also believe that if it can be proven that you were party to such a thing, you too deserve the same fate as the person you caused to go to death row.

Do I believe that this is reason for stopping the death sentence? No. Absolutely not. There must be an ultimate price.

But, frankly, I also feel that life in jail is not only inhumane, it is also a slap in the face of the person who was the victim as well as the victim's family.
edit on 18-1-2014 by zeroBelief because: (no reason given)
edit on 18-1-2014 by zeroBelief because: because of the scotch and the wasabi almonds....



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 01:15 PM
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HanzHenry

shaneslaughta
These people are on death row because they are cold callous murderers and such.
Did any of their victims receive such careful consideration before their lives were taken?

Why should the criminals get better treatment than the victims?


Problem is, there are too many examples of INNOCENT people being on death row.

But, the real verifiable monsters.. I agree somewhat.

Guillotine.. cheap, effective and quick.


Hanz, now, I COMPLETELY and THOROUGHLY agree with you. This is a 100% complete and painless method. Put enough force on the blade and there will be NO time for the brain to register any kind of pain.

Their life, their stain on reality, is gone. Simple. Done. Only the aftermath of their actions remains.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 01:18 PM
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Bullets are expensive. I think we should hire Maxwell to take care of those need'n a killi'n.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 01:21 PM
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Liquesence
Again, this thread is NOT about whether or not capital punishment is humane itself, but about what would be the "most" humane method of capital punishment, even though that's slightly illogical.



Oh, and OP...in answer to your statement about capitol punishment and it's ability to be a humane method even though that is slightly illogical.

It is illogical, only in the sense that the person who perpetrated the crime apparently gave little thought to the humane treatment of their victim. Of the family and friends who will then have to deal with the aftermath of having someone who was a part of their life, simply, gone.

That is a special and unique pain.

I do not feel that it is illogical even in the slightest to suggest that a society seek out a humane way to euthanize a perpetrator of such a heinous crime. We are simply giving them the benefit they didn't bother to give the victim or the victim's loved ones. That is because we are a civilized society.

Personally, if anyone were to ask me, I say you find a way to make them face death the EXACT SAME WAY they killed their victim. Hell, make the pain go on longer than necessary.

Perhaps I'm just not that civilized. And I know I won't garner any favor here from my viewpoint on this.

But it is my viewpoint.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 01:25 PM
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Sadly while it is not a bad idea as far as the treatment of criminals goes one needs to think of the effect it would have on the individuals who had to carry out the sentence. I for one could never have that job. Quick bullet to the head is efficient.
edit on 18-1-2014 by Mamatus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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zeroBelief

Hell, we hung Saddam Hussein, let's re institute hanging as an official means of execution. At least that way you can re-use (think GREEN) the tool each and every time...

The ONLY way that I can see death by firing squad as being more humane is that you cannot guarantee how quickly a person will die from hanging.


Exactly. Death by hanging is not instantaneous much of the time, therefore suffering is likely involved, which is not humane (and the prospect of death and the leading to the gallows (or any place of execution) can be suffering as much).


A gunshot to the back of the head? I've never heard of someone surviving that. Oh, but wait, that's not a "firing squad"...that's an UGLY execution. Oh, no...something is UGLY in response to committing heinous crimes. What could I possibly be thinking (yes, this IS sarcasm).


Ugly, perhaps. Certainly messy, but yes far quicker.


What I think *IS* inhumane is the idea of making someone wait for years in a jail cell before death.

This is what Camus also argued in the essay i linked to.

When your execution date is known the countdown is filled with just as much anxiety as not knowing when it will be, and they will just come an get you (the latter which was also argued by Camus). Such as your Japan example.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 01:37 PM
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I don't see a problem with this.. in fact.. the scarier you make impending doom for a fellow that has a death sentence, the more likely it will help others stop and think before they commit murder.

Firing squad sure.. I'd even take slow dismemberment with no anesthesia using a rusty hack saw. And I'd televise it live on CNN.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by shaneslaughta
 


I almost wish that you get wrongly convicted or the state attempts to politically silence you... in any case if you are in a State that has death penalty you already are paying due to social effects of having a higher disregard for human life and opting to satisfy basic human nature. To have criminals you first need a society.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 01:49 PM
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Liquesence
Exactly. Death by hanging is not instantaneous much of the time, therefore suffering is likely involved, which is not humane (and the prospect of death and the leading to the gallows (or any place of execution) can be suffering as much).

Ugly, perhaps. Certainly messy, but yes far quicker.

When your execution date is known the countdown is filled with just as much anxiety as not knowing when it will be, and they will just come an get you (the latter which was also argued by Camus). Such as your Japan example.



Soooo.....we're basically in agreement, except for the semantics involved in knowing/not knowing when your incarceration will lead to execution.

Gotchya.

But, I did also suggest death by hypothermia. And I also agreed with the concept of death by guillotine. And, frankly, a gunshot at point blank range to the back of the head...nice, effective, no real pain, and immediate death.

So there you go!!!!
edit on 18-1-2014 by zeroBelief because: (no reason given)





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