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Suicide by Cop caught by Body Camera in Idaho

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posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by windcalmer
 


I disarmed someone in my pub in London who had a stanley knife, grabbed his wrist and twisted until he let go then I held him down til the police showed up, he was very drunk and it happened in a flash.
Sorry I stand by my statement. The guy didn't need to be shot dead.




posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 04:35 AM
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LightAssassin
reply to post by projectbane
 


fair enough.

You make a good point in which case I concede.....but I still think that despite his training could have spared the guys life with a shot to the shoulder. If it hits his heart so be it, but sometimes people can be in a rage that can be sorted by incapacitating the assailant.


To a degree you have a point. However, until a method is introduced that can be used in a confined space where a armed suspect (knife in this instance) can be safely (officer safety here) subdued, then we are left with the kill shot.

A method that a friend of mine proposed back in 2002 was a tranquilizer type gun that would immediately paralyze the suspect for a period of time before rendering him unconscious where he/she could be removed from the scene and questioned in safety at a later time. this had some very good responses but ultimately the medical community and politicians had reservations.

I believe the method was not fully investigated to see if at all practical in terms of suitability and cost effectiveness maybe it should be looked at again with new technology?
edit on 17-1-2014 by projectbane because: spelling



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 04:48 AM
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Cop cams are a good idea. Keeps them following procedure.

Our police here have cameras fitted in their tazers.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 06:52 AM
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So in the end what's left after this is a crippled family and a cop who is probably going to get haunted for the rest of his life for taking the man's life.
Lose-Lose situation.
Another by-product of the broken system.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 08:47 AM
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If by some random act of chance I was a police officer, with a gun... in the same situation.. I would like to think I would have disabled the guy, I would like to think that. But I wouldnt.

I would see him walking towards me and after shouting warnings I would have done the same thing. Say what you want about "it was right/wrong" but at the end of the day, you would be sh*tting yourself aswell. You dont want to, but you do.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 09:12 AM
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nofear39
reply to post by matafuchs
 



The leo didnt need to kill him ... a bullet in the leg would of been enough .. i think i heard 4 bullets WTF !!!!





This "shoot him in the leg or arm" stuff is nonsense and shows that people learn what they think they know from watching too much television.

First of all, a leg or an arm is a difficult target and a miss is likely and a miss puts people and property on the other side of the criminal in jeopardy, so you don't shoot at an arm or leg, you shoot at center mass (IE the largest part) of the target. Center mass is, of course where the vital organs are.

Secondly, a leg or arm shot can be fatal quite easily. Femoral or subclavian artery disruption could cause exsanguination quite easily. Unlike the movies, where the guy gets shot in the leg and still fights the baddies, a leg wound can be pretty devastating also.

Thirdly, since we have established that the use of a gun is the use of deadly force, the real question is not "why didn't they shoot him in the leg," the real question was deadly force justified or not? If it was justified then it does not matter how many bullets were used, in such a case you keep shooting until the threat is down. If it was not justified, then not a single bullet should have gone downrange and he shouldn't have been shot anywhere--even in the leg because shooting someone in the leg is still use of deadly force.
edit on 17-1-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 09:20 AM
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Its sad that someone ended getting killed. At first it also appeared to me why did he have to kill the guy.


However, those complaining of excessive force were not in the strangers house (including myself) with someone holding knifes after being repeatedly told to drop them. You most likely also have not gone through police training where they show you tapes after tapes of where your fellow colleague have been repeatedly killed in situations such as those or even in situations which did not appear deadly.

Had he not taken a shot to kill but rather hurt the man, it would have created a situation where the man could have thrown the knives at the officer. Or the officer would have had to retreat and who knows if it could have turned into a hostage situation or if other people were in the house. Not to mention from my understanding they are trained to shoot to kill.

As to why didn't he use a taser. If I'm going to a strangers house who is obviously running from something and I'm told that he is holding a knife there is no way I'm going in with a taser. You shoot a tazer you miss or it fails to sub do the person than what and what if there is more than one.

As in regards to the multiple shots, You can tell the cop was in fear of his life and again if he shoots and misses or the guy is not fully taken down their is a possibility that he can still throw the knife or pull a gun.

Its easy to be a Monday quarterback , but that cop was in a live or die situation and not loosing a game.

Like I said it sucks but it looks like that cop was not power hungry and tried to get him to come out peacefully.

I'm not a cop but I think they have one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. They can literally pull someone over for something so stupid as speeding and lose their life. So you can't blame them for being on the edge or taking ALL situations as SERIOUS with a potential to die.

BTW I my wife just got a 280 speeding ticket with me in the car while going through an obvious speed trap , but I can still see the incident through the cops eyes.
edit on 30131America/ChicagoFri, 17 Jan 2014 09:30:31 -0600000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 09:26 AM
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projectbane

LightAssassin
reply to post by projectbane
 


fair enough.

You make a good point in which case I concede.....but I still think that despite his training could have spared the guys life with a shot to the shoulder. If it hits his heart so be it, but sometimes people can be in a rage that can be sorted by incapacitating the assailant.


To a degree you have a point. However, until a method is introduced that can be used in a confined space where a armed suspect (knife in this instance) can be safely (officer safety here) subdued, then we are left with the kill shot.

A method that a friend of mine proposed back in 2002 was a tranquilizer type gun that would immediately paralyze the suspect for a period of time before rendering him unconscious where he/she could be removed from the scene and questioned in safety at a later time. this had some very good responses but ultimately the medical community and politicians had reservations.

I believe the method was not fully investigated to see if at all practical in terms of suitability and cost effectiveness maybe it should be looked at again with new technology?
edit on 17-1-2014 by projectbane because: spelling


That's a good idea, but I can see the inherent problems as well. The dose of a tranquilizer to get a suspect down quickly and reliable could also cause death from respiratory compromise--not to mention potential additional side effects from whatever other chemical s he may or may not have ingested. The truth is, that there is no 100% safe and effective way to take down a violent criminal. All approaches have their flaws, benefits, and risks.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by matafuchs
 


He should have put the knife down. Additionally, he had the thought and knowledge that he was going to die that day, or attempt it in any case. This Officer was in the correct position in fear of his own life or body being threatened.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 10:11 AM
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This has been brought up already numerous times, but why not shoot out the knee caps first?? Or the foot, or the hand holding the knife???
*shrugs* I dunno.... I mean, I understand the motion of "fight or flight" and when in a situation where your life may be threatened you react with such response.

But I do believe that cops are trained to recognize such situations and react appropriately.
Guy with knife vs cops with guns. How scared are you?

Unless a f***ing ninja or zombie is coming at ya, I don't see the reason to shoot the guy multiple times in the chest and head to take him down.

Just sayin'.
edit on 17-1-2014 by SalientSkivvy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 10:50 AM
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If someone is walking slowly towards you, with a knife, it means there is no fear. That is not someone you can take lightly in a situation like this. It is easy to accept the 'madman' running and getting gunned down but in this case, if someone is that cool and collected you have NO idea what they may do. Do you wait until they are in range of lunging or do you fire. In this case, I have to say, it was justified.

If that person was in my house as a citizen, and he was holding a knife, I would not care how he was walking, slow or fast, I would have emptied my gun into him. Why would it be any different to hold a police officer to a seperate standard? Are all of you stating the officer was incorrect in the handling stating that if it was a situation in your home you have 'talked it out?'.

These are split second decisions and personally would not want to be in the cops shoes. I have friends who have been involved in otj shootings and their lives were never the same.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 01:11 PM
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and this my friends, is you why you should NEVER call the police for "help"

judging from the video the cop acted fine, gave him plenty of warnings, after asking him to come out for ages.

i dont understand why anyone would expect this to go any other way, IMO the friend got him killed by calling the police.

leave the guy alone, let him cut himself to death if he wants to but never call the cops if you want him to actually stay living.
edit on 17-1-2014 by rayuki because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 01:18 PM
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haven123
I wish i never saw that


I'm glad I read this.

Now I'm not going to watch it. Seems pointless.

Thanks for that.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 03:55 PM
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Whoa that cop was trigger happy .. unbelievable why not shoot the legs first? I mean trained cops could even shoot the knife out of his hand?
edit on 0b00America/ChicagoFri, 17 Jan 2014 15:57:00 -0600vAmerica/ChicagoFri, 17 Jan 2014 15:57:00 -06001 by 0bserver1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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Suicide by cop is right.
The cop tried to de-escalate the situation with his words and the man started to close the distance with a knife.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by opethPA
 


I agree that a taser would have been a better option but the moment the guy started closing in on the cop with a knife, his gun was what he had to use.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by Mon1k3r
 


i just ate and didnt expect to see a man die



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 04:36 PM
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haven123
reply to post by Mon1k3r
 


i just ate and didnt expect to see a man die


It's sad but the video was mild in comparison....
There was a survivalist thread posted recently.
One of the posters put up a video that he used for demonstration purposes to never turn your back.

I thought it would have been a harmless "training demonstration video"

It was a video of a man being hacked to death with machetes by 5 guys.
I closed it midway through the video feeling nauseous and dizzy as if I was the one being attacked.
Some things can't be unseen.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 07:48 PM
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jacobe001
Suicide by cop is right.
The cop tried to de-escalate the situation with his words and the man started to close the distance with a knife.



exactly. This is about as clean a shoot you'll see. This cop will be back on the job as soon as he see's a psych.

Here's a solution, don't advance toward a cop pointing a gun at you dual wielding knives (btw any knife can be thrown).

Forget all the tazer/wound him back out of the house ect, ect. All the guy had to do was drop the knives any of the 8 times (I counted) the officer ordered him to. Simple as that.

Also everyone posting from the UK, good luck risking your like with a baton against someone dual wielding knives. LOL.

Here in the US we have protocal that officer's must follow when drawing a fire-arm and this officer did exactly as he was trained to do under US law. You don't like it, fine. You don't live here and you don't have to like it. Me..I'm fine with it. If you advance on an officer of the law with two lethal weapons you're gonna get 5 shots center mass. I rather see this than some officer trying to defend him self with a stick, while some felon stabs him in the neck with a kitchen knife.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 07:50 PM
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boymonkey74
Sorry but the guy could have shot to wound, he wasn't running at him just walking slow...heck I bet a shot to the floor would have made him drop.
The cop made sure he would never get up again.


So you are saying a shot to the floor would have made him drop, while a police officer, who is trained to shoot to kill, pointing a loaded weapon at his chest didn't? Next time I go to the firing range, I will look for one of those targets that have the legs on them. At that close of a distance, one shot to any part of the body other than the head, is not guaranteed to stop them from reaching you.
Also, a hollow point to the thigh, unless it is a flesh wound, will likely open an artery and allow the attacker to bleed out in a very short time.





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