geo-engineering and chemtrails, Yes there is a difference.

reply to post by gladtobehere


Contrail can last 4 minutes like it can last for hours.....most of them hours.....look it up.

UxoriousMagnus

waynos
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

From your link

Some contrails are short, and last for only a few seconds. Other contrails are very long, and continue to grow long after the jet airplane has passed. Why do some contrails remain in the sky so long?

Yes, why so long indeed?

Where is the bit about only lasting 50 seconds?

Also, when you say the ones you see are lower, how do you know?

edit on 16-1-2014 by waynos because: (no reason given)

I will have to find the 50 second statement.....it has been years since I researched all of this.

Don't worry if you can't find that, just explain the physics of it instead if you want.

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


There are a couple things that will help you if you look into them.
First off, we have many more flights today ,than we did 20 years ago, and many, many more than 40 years ago.
Plus, recently the airline industry has implemented new engines that are more fuel efficient and one of the by-products of the efficiency is they create more persistent contrails, by allowing more warm, humid air to pass through the engine.

So knowing those two things, yes there are more contrails in the sky then ever before, and they are increasing exponentially daily, given the correct conditions.

Since contrails are just man made clouds, they react just like clouds do. Some last very long, and some dissipate quickly.

And to ease your mind, if something was actually to be sprayed at 25 to 35 thousand feet, it would come back to Earth several hundred miles away. So you would not need to worry about them making you sick.

I hope that helps.

network dude
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

There are a couple things that will help you if you look into them.
First off, we have many more flights today ,than we did 20 years ago, and many, many more than 40 years ago.
Plus, recently the airline industry has implemented new engines that are more fuel efficient and one of the by-products of the efficiency is they create more persistent contrails, by allowing more warm, humid air to pass through the engine.

So knowing those two things, yes there are more contrails in the sky then ever before, and they are increasing exponentially daily, given the correct conditions.

Since contrails are just man made clouds, they react just like clouds do. Some last very long, and some dissipate quickly.

And to ease your mind, if something was actually to be sprayed at 25 to 35 thousand feet, it would come back to Earth several hundred miles away. So you would not need to worry about them making you sick.

I hope that helps.

I hear you on the more traffic and new engines and you guys have eased up my rabid "chemtrail" stance a bit but when I see Cessnas running around at about 5,000 ft and at-altitude commercial planes up at 30 to 39,000 ft and trails in the middle......I am trying to tell you that they are much lower than the 25 to 35,000 ft range you are talking about.

There is also a ton of stuff out there about people getting sick after seeing these trails......see....I am not calling them "chemtrails" anymoe

I grant you that this could be just mental but we do know that they spray Anvil for skeeters even though they are fully aware that it attacks the human brain.....so why would we be surprised by them spraying something further up.

I tried to find my pics of the "sheen" but could not....I will continue to try to find them just to get your opinion if nothing else.

Thanks for being civil and good teachers

mrthumpy

UxoriousMagnus

waynos
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

From your link

Some contrails are short, and last for only a few seconds. Other contrails are very long, and continue to grow long after the jet airplane has passed. Why do some contrails remain in the sky so long?

Yes, why so long indeed?

Where is the bit about only lasting 50 seconds?

Also, when you say the ones you see are lower, how do you know?

edit on 16-1-2014 by waynos because: (no reason given)

I will have to find the 50 second statement.....it has been years since I researched all of this.

Don't worry if you can't find that, just explain the physics of it instead if you want.

well...it has something to do with the ice crystals and the way they form from the moist warm air caused by the engine and them being heavier than normal clouds so they fall and hit warmer air and melt pretty quickly or something like that.....not much help....I know and it isn't that they all last only 50 seconds or less but MOST last 50 seconds or less. It is the wide gap between most only lasting 50 seconds or less and some that last all day and change the sky that seems to be the problem. And around here....it isn't most that last only 50 seconds.....the most part is the ones that last all day.

but I hope you guys are right and it is nothing to worry about except my ability to get a good tan ......yes I know you can still get burned through clouds

UxoriousMagnus

Thanks for being civil and good teachers

Thanks for returning the favor.

If you see trails of any kind much less than 25,000 feet, you have cause for concern IMO. I just cannot see how you can judge elevation by sight. About the only thing I could see would be using the type of clouds around the trail to give a vague estimate. But even then, it's hard to tell if they are all at the same elevation. Perhaps see if you can photograph a plane flying under the trail or over the trail, and then offer it's altitude. (by flight aware or some software)

network dude

UxoriousMagnus

Thanks for being civil and good teachers

Thanks for returning the favor.

If you see trails of any kind much less than 25,000 feet, you have cause for concern IMO. I just cannot see how you can judge elevation by sight. About the only thing I could see would be using the type of clouds around the trail to give a vague estimate. But even then, it's hard to tell if they are all at the same elevation. Perhaps see if you can photograph a plane flying under the trail or over the trail, and then offer it's altitude. (by flight aware or some software)

roger that....sounds like a good project

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

There is also a ton of stuff out there about people getting sick after seeing these trails..

And none of it can prove the sick people got that way because of those trails.

tsurfer2000h
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

There is also a ton of stuff out there about people getting sick after seeing these trails..

And none of it can prove the sick people got that way because of those trails.

that is true.....and there is nothing to prove they didn't

network dude

UxoriousMagnus

Thanks for being civil and good teachers

Thanks for returning the favor.

If you see trails of any kind much less than 25,000 feet, you have cause for concern IMO.

Oh, you mean, like this?

I just cannot see how you can judge elevation by sight.

Sure you can.

Your Body Ruler - A User's Manual

The idea:
you can measure with your body. Length, angle, time, etc. This page deals with length. And... you will never forget to bring your bodyruler with you.

An example
How big is the screen/paper in front of you?
My screen is about 4.5 palms by 3.5 palms.

Having calibrated myself, I know my palm is 0.07 meters (7 cm, 2.75 in).
So my screen is something like 0.31 by 0.24 m (12.4 by 9.6 in).
Measuring with an "ordinary ruler", I get 0.32 m and 0.25 m. (12.5 by 9.5 in.)
So my palms quickly gave a nice measurement.
Calibrating Yourself
A first step is to choose your measures, and measure your choices.

Many body distances can be used as measures, but you dont need all of them. Many have similar size (for example, hand and palm), so you can just choose ones you prefer, perhaps ones with numbers easier to remember. Also, some are related (1 palm can be 4 fingers). Feel free to use other measures, or to modify these (like using little finger rather than middle finger). The important thing is consistency, using them the same way each time.

Before using any new measuring instrument, one needs to calibrate it by comparing it with something else, something of known measure. For your bodyruler, you can use an "ordinary ruler". Averaging can be used to reduce error. For instance, measure out 3 palms and divide by 3, rather than just measuring a single palm.

Here are some measures you might use. I've highlighted my favorites, and included some roman names.

The only difference between "geoengineering" and "chemtrails" is the name; and disguise.

This will be the only comment i make...so, don't bother responding to me!

WonderBoi
Oh, you mean, like this?

...

Your Body Ruler - A User's Manual

Your site says this:

It would be nice to have some notes on usage, on sensitivity to fist distance, on measuring the distance to objects of known size (aircraft, people), on measuring the height of a building by walking towards it, on ...

reply to post by WonderBoi


Yeah, but you aren't taking into account the distance away from you the object whose height your are measure, and how perspective (caused by that distance from you) can affect the meaurement.

Here are some examples I mentioned in another thread that has since been closed:

When a jet flies over my head and then flies away from me toward the horizon, obviously it will look higher in the sky (relative to the horizon) when it is over my head that it would minutes later, when it is about to fly off towards the distant horizon. That is due to perspective, NOT because the plane descended to a lower altitude.

The same thing may be happening in your images. You can't measure the altitude of that contrail if you don't know how far away it is from you -- i.e., without knowing how much perspective is affecting the apparent altitude of those trail. The contrail that "appears" higher may be at the same altitude as the ones that "appear" lower only because the one that is higher is closer to your position.

Here's another example. Do the clouds at the top of this image look to be at a different altitude to you than the clouds closer to the horizon?:

Using your method, the clouds nearer to the horizon would measure out to be so much lower than the ones closer to the top of the image. HOWEVER, the bottoms of the clouds in this image could all be at the same altitude.

Since they very well could be at the same height, let's stipulate that they are (for the sake of this next example). Let's imagine two planes in this image, one at the top of this image flying just beneath the clouds, while another was flying closer to the horizon, but still just beneath the clouds. The one closer to the horizon may appear "lower" in this image, but it would NOT actually be flying lower.

That's due to distance and perspective. Your measurement method is not taking distance and perspective into account.

This might be educational for (cough) some......figures are miles distance from directly overhead...altitude of hte lines is abou 30,000 feet..

Heres a similar example of perspective affecting the way you see a trail that is at a constant height, in this case 29,000ft all the way from the horizon;



The trail closely matching the demarcated line in the diagram posted by Gaul. When the flight first became visible on the horizon it was over Louth, about 70 miles east of my location, and that building on the skyline is on top top of a hill.

Dp

reply to post by WonderBoi


you make me smile.

How to Measure Altitude or Height

There are several ways to determine the height or altitude of an object. There are two simple ways to measure the height from the ground. The simplest way uses a stick and a small circle. The second way is a little more complicated and uses basic trigonometry and geometry. The second method is more accurate if done correctly, and it does not depend on the sun. However, it does require the assistance of another person. Other People Are Reading

How to Measure Elevation
Tools for Measuring Height
Things You'll Need:
4-foot stick
Spray paint
Measuring tape Show

Shadow Method
1 Place a stick in the ground close to the object that you want to measure on a clear, sunny day.
2 Draw a circular line around the stick, making the distance from the stick to the edges of the circle the same distance as the height of the stick.
3 Wait for the stick's shadow to touch the edge of the circle. When this occurs, quickly measure the length of the taller object's shadow. The length of the shadow at this moment will equal the height of the tall object.

Math Method
4 Spray a line on the ground between two people equaling about 12 feet. Have one person stand at one end of the line, and the other person stand at the other end.
5 Have the person on the left side of the line measure the angle between the top of the object and the reference line. The second person should measure the angle of the object to the ground from his side. Both people measure the angle from the top object to the end of the line, and the angle from the end of the line to the bottom of the object.
6 Insert the angle measurements into the following equation h = (L * tan a * tan d) / ( cos b * tan d + cos c * tan a). The first person's measurements are a and b, and the second person's measurements are c and d.
7 Determine the cosine (cos) by dividing the ground line by angle a. Determine the tangent (tan) by dividing the angle measurement from the top of the object to the ground by the bottom line measurement.
8 Complete the equation to determine the height of the object.

Also, if you know the exact type of aircraft you can of course do the math. Look at the aircraft with a stick of known length next to your eye. You now know the relative size of the aircraft to the stick. From that you can derive the size of the aircraft as perceived due to
distance. Knowing the real size you can calculate the distance from that.

reply to post by WonderBoi

Your shadow method requires you to put the stick near the object you are measuring. That means you would need to know the location of the object. In your picture of the contrail, you really can't tell where exactly the contrail is (i.e., you don't know what point is "directly under" the contrail). For one person to determine the height, the distance of the object (in the case the distance to a point below the contrail) needs to be known.

You would also need to somehow measure the distance from the point under the contrail to the shadow being made by the contrail, which I suppose is theoretically possible, but I'm not sure how it can be done in a practical sense.

Your math method may work, but not for two people only 12 feet apart. If the two people were far enough apart (may miles in the case of this contrail?) then the difference in the perspective (the POV) between the two people relative to the apparent height of the contrail from their POV could help determine the actual height by using trig. The difference between the two people's POV is the key, and 12 feet is not enough to create enough of a difference in POV.

reply to post by WonderBoi


I know most people don't care about # like this but it drives me nuts. Why did you try to slip this in as being part of the info from your source link?

Also, if you know the exact type of aircraft you can of course do the math. Look at the aircraft with a stick of known length next to your eye. You now know the relative size of the aircraft to the stick. From that you can derive the size of the aircraft as perceived due to
distance. Knowing the real size you can calculate the distance from that.

THAT IS FROM A POST ON ANOTHER BOARD

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


Well spotted. For a second there I thought we were all being treated to Wunderkids version of "science" phew.