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Workers Win Fight For Living Wage, Then Lose Jobs

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posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 09:11 PM
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Murgatroid

Destinyone
No one won in this debacle.


The employer (Genting Group) has billions in assets and employs over 58,000 people globally.

Somehow I suspect that they could care less about the employees or the loss in income.




This is a foreign (Malaysia) owned company. A large organization like this is in the business of making money. They have lots of irons in the fire. If one iron isn't hot in the fire, it is thrown out, pure and simple. They run only on the numbers and don't look at the overall income of their combined irons. They have investors they must pay and no investor wants a lower return because of carrying the weight of a failing iron.


www.rwnewyork.com...

About Resorts World Casino New York City

Resorts World Casino New York City is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Genting Malaysia Berhad ("Genting"), a member of the Genting Group, which has a 20-year track record of investing in the United States. Its business in Florida started 11 years ago when it acquired Miami-based Norwegian Cruise Line ("NCL"). The Genting Group currently owns 50% of NCL. In 2006, Genting Group partnered with Universal Studios to build the Universal Studios Singapore theme park in Sentosa, Singapore. Universal Studios Singapore is part of the US$4.5 billion Resorts World Sentosa in Singapore. For more information on the various Resorts World properties worldwide, please visit www.resortsworld.com



About Genting and The Genting Group

Genting (www.gentingmalaysia.com) is a member of the Genting Group (www.genting.com), the world's largest Destination Resort operator with Resorts World branded properties in Malaysia, Singapore, Manila and New York City. In addition to Destination Resorts, the Genting Group has global investments in plantations, power generation, oil and gas, real estate, cruise, leisure and other industries.

The Genting Group has five public companies listed on the stock exchanges of Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong, with a combined market capitalisation of US$45 billion and employs more than 50,000 people worldwide.




posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 09:34 PM
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Cabin
reply to post by bladerunner44
 

For example, let us take a company with 100 employees. Instead of paying the CEO 4m a year and everybody else 20k a year, I would prefer the situation of everybody receiving 50k and CEO 1m a year, although even that is too high salary in my eyes. The CEO still earns extreme salary, at least now employees earn fair wage. Hard-work is still rewarded...


For sake of argument, lets use this example. First, what is a "living wage"? Is it the same for all people or is there some arbitrary line set by an outside group such as the Government that delineates that? I guess we could use the poverty-line that is set by the Government. In that case, the poverty level for a single person is $11,490; for a family of 3, it is $19,530.

That is what the United States of America's Government says is the social and material acceptable amount a person(s) should make to be above poverty.

Now, I am sure not all agree with those numbers, and this is where I ask that question regarding, what will be a "living wage"? $10/hour for the single person but $15/hour for the family man? $15/hour for all; then the single man benefits more than the family man and the family man might begin to think his wage is not equitable anymore. Do you see how this argument of a living wage is complicated and has deep implications?

Moving along with your example, let us say that living standard is raised for those who now enjoy an inflated wage, or rather a 'living wage'. They engage in the open market more now, which places a higher demand on items (as now everyone can enjoy right?) and thus, through supply-and-demand, the prices begin to rise due to the demand (and scarcity of the supply) of the item. It seems, in a vacuum, we are right back where we were before we allowed a "living wage"; and an increase of that wage is warranted no doubt. Thus continues the cycle -- unless of course the Government comes in an begins placing price ceilings on products (gee, what precedent will they use for this?) and now forces commerce to price product not by market forces, but by that which the Government deems to be "livable".

Okay, might not happen, but surely could and I would actually bet my savings on it that it would if we moved from a "minimum wage" (which already inflates the market as is) and we just go for the gusto and establish a "living wage".



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 09:57 PM
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EA006
reply to post by xuenchen
 


175 x 40 hrs = 7000 hrs
$5 ph x 7000 = $35000
$12 x 7000 = $ 84000 all per week

Probably couldn't afford it.


Yes, and that probably cut in to the share holder's dividends by: $84,000/wk - $.8,400 /wk= $79,000/wk
The board will not relinquish 10% of their hard earned money to these extortionists!!
Just declare bankruptcy, write off the losses, reincorporate and hire all new $5/hr plus tip workers.
Correction, make that $4.50/hr and 75% of their tips, we need to recoup our legal costs you know.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 10:18 PM
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edit on 16-1-2014 by 3u40r15m because: Irrelevant



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 10:39 PM
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Cabin


Generally, I would say majority of companies, especially retail, use somewhat similar strategy for keeping the prices lower due to lower expenses on employee costs, especially when it comes to lower-skilled jobs, who are usually easily replaceable in current economy, where there are not many jobs to choose from. If a person has a choice, either 5 dollars an hour, or my family starves, he chooses the first option.


Minimum in Washington state is almost 10 bucks and it is 15 in some areas of Washington. My question to you is if a job is worth 10 bucks an hour should we raise it to 15 because job are hard to come by? I never worked a minimum wage job in my life so I find that people who can't find a paying job have reasons why not. One could be they are unwilling to move to a job that does pay better....

Low skill is just that...it doesn't matter, those who have those jobs, or should have them do not have skills or education, so they pay crap...If skilled/educated people are working those jobs now than thank Obama and crew, but don't blame the owner for not paying more because the guy might need it...



Also you have to consider the fact, that there are many people out there, whose mental capabilities might top at some burger flipping or very low-skilled field. Every 7th person out there has IQ lower than 85, while 50% of the population has it lower than 100. A person with an IQ of 80, has not much chance for ever being able to do more intellectually demanding jobs, which usually are higher-paying.


There are two parts to making money the RIGHT skills and/or education. There are many low IQ people who can do 1000s of skills much better than I and do get paid for their skills. When you have both the RIGHT skills AND education then you push into 100k+, or if you have that magical element that pushes you into your own business..that 99% of America doesn't have you can be a top 5%er.



Another thing to consider is the fact that somebody has to do the easy things anyways. Somebody has to work in Walmart, somebody has to clean, plumb, whatever the job.


Remember not everyone needs a living wage...two 1/2 living wages equals one. Much of the world does not live in isolation like we do. One guy has his own apartment is a crazy thought in much of the world. Another crazy thought is 4 or 5 people living together all bringing in minimum wage and actually surviving on the combine efforts... crazy....If you are a single parent that truly needs a living wage and can not get one...look in the mirror as to why...ask the hard questions that have nothing to do with the rich or Government and only have to do with yourself.



I´m not talking about some 100k yearly salary for a burger flipper, but reasonable enough salary, so the person could get healthcare, basic food and pay the rent/transport, living wage basically. At least in most European countries something similar has been achieved, although the cultures are also very different. US salary system is very broad, for example, when here the lower employees earn 1, middle-level earns 5, specialist 7 and the top 10, then in US it might be 1,7, 12 and 20 (40) . The bottom loses more and the top wins more, here it is more equal. Top still earns well, but bottom gets the living wage.


So what should be a living wage in America, and should flipping burgers actually be a solo living wage? Should we base the lowest living wage on one person providing even just for himself, much less a family. Has there ever been a time in the last 100 years that a person could flip burgers and live on that wage?



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 10:51 PM
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Let's clear something up. This isn't some local eatery or even a national chain joint. What we're discussing here isn't even a restaurant it is the buffet service at a casino that is doing business at a tune of over 1M a day. It was a small part of their food court and they have a steak house and a gourmet chinese restaurant on top of that.

They claim that they decided to discontinue it because it was loosing money and not because of the pay raise. They tried to up the price of the buffet plate and it flopped. Seeing that there at least half a dozen other eateries in that food court they probably decided that the buffet was some fat that needed to be trimmed.

They are not being driven into bankruptcy or closing and reopening under a different name.

The article in the OP spun it to try to paint a situation where government action forced someone out business and, while that does happen, this is hardly an example of that.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 11:02 PM
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oblvion

And what is the reason that will be the high water mark of their life? Complete and total lack of anyway to improve their lot in life. I mean all had rich mommies and daddies to pay for our grad schools, or at least a trust fund we could use right?


That is the problem, you guys blame all your owes on .0001 of the population.. What does some lucky guy that has a trust fund have anything to do with getting ahead in life? So he won the lottery at birth...who cares, I don't, and his life, or that rich guys life has nothing to do with whether I succeed or fail.




It isn't like the chances of someone pulling themselves out of poverty in this time we live in is 1,000-1 or something......oh wait 1,000,000-1 you say.....nvm they were screwed from birth.


lol, just keep telling yourself that..



The truth is most rich people didn't earn it, they got lucky, or had money in their family already.


You don't understand...rich people, how ever they got it means nothing, I make damn good money and I care less what a rich guy does. Its about life choices, you make good ones and you get a head, make bad ones and you stay stagnate.



Sure there are Sam Walton's and Bill Gates out there, but they are 1 in a million, not very good odds for most. Your more likely to be born poor, work your ass off at least 50 hours a week your entire life, and die with less than it takes for an average funeral.


Once again who cares they mean nothing, they mean nothing to you making 100 -150k per year.



Btw the old " they can work for a better company if they want" line is just pathetic, there aren't any, and if there were, the job would already be filled.


Is the reality that there are no good jobs out there or is it that a person doesn't have the skills for the good jobs available...life choices...

How can you not see the obviousness of all this already?



I mean how much does one honestly need? Are the rich truly so empty inside a billion is not enough? Walton family that was aimed at you btw.


Once again some guy has a ton of money, what is that directly related to you on your successes or failures. I did 28 years in the military, making about 98k and retired at about 60k per year, took my skills/education and got a job offer before I retired that pays extremely well...Was I born into it? Was I lucky, or did I plan for 25 plus years always improving myself, working from E1 to E9 in the military and then still improving even today to get hired and move up three times since 2008.

My story is one of an infinite number of outcomes...I could have gotten out of the military after 4 years, got married, had kids early in my life, working 12 hours a day in a minimum pay job to make ends meet, with no time to do anything else in life...and find myself 30 years later at the same level...life choices...




edit on 16-1-2014 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 11:11 PM
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2nd
edit on 16-1-2014 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 02:00 AM
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The Vagabond
reply to post by xuenchen
 

A business that requires an unfair advantage built on illegal undercompensation of workers and a hidden government subsidy in the form of public assistance for the working poor SHOULD go out of business.


I could not have said that better myself. I substitute my opinion with yours.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 02:52 AM
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I believe what the rich are saying is , we are all to be 3rd world people ... Except themselves . There is a direct correlation to new world economics and the rich and extraterrestrials. It is like the rich have made a deal with another race , or another race is the rich and they are forcing the economics of the world. Obviously the USA will ban ever be what it was in the 60's and 70,s , this is by design not circumstance.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 07:17 AM
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MysterX
reply to post by NavyDoc
 





I tell you what. Why not pay every minimum wage worker $500 an hour. Then they can not only afford to feed their families, they could afford a Porsche.


Wow...!

If a blinkered, arrogant viewpoint was a commodity, you'd be laughing all the way to the bank.

Point made, i'm out of here..way too much BS to handle.


Not BS at all but an extension of your though process. If a wage should be dictated by something else than what the work is worse and the wage is arbitrarily set by the government, why stop at $12? $20? $100? $500? If arbitrary, centrally dictated, wages are the answer to poverty, why stop at a lower set point? Your retreat shows that you really do not have a foundation in basic economics or real life consequences for your emotionally driven demands.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 

You are absolutely right in saying the workers make the company.

Thanks for acknowledging this obvious fact.

Take Walmart, the most profitable company on the planet, remove all hourly employees, what is its revenue next year? .......exactly zero.

Now remove all owners and management install minimal staff to secure supply chain in same situation, the company is still profitable and viable.

Not one company can survive without the little guy doing the work, all companies can survive without almost all execs and managers.


Why can't you see the obvious.

Corporations exist to better mans existance, through goods and services, not to fill a worthless bloated rich guys bank account.


It can be different, it can be better, it can profit in the favor of all.

I don't mean in the communist way, this is obviously worthless crap.

I mean in the free market way, the rich guy still gets the largest return for investment, it was real after all, the best workers still get rewarded....

The guys doing all the actual profit making work just don't get basically nothing in return for ALL of the labor involved in making every single dollar possible.

You my friend are saying the king deserves all the resources, because he is king.

I am saying the serfs make his entire kingdom possible.

He should not waste 100lbs of food per meal while they starve.

There are more than enough resources in America that all who actually work should be able to afford a modest home of their own and a decent car, with some disposable income left over for fun.

The guy that owns the business does nothing to make profits in any company but the tiny 5 man crew where the owner actually goes work right next to his guys.

The owner spends all day playing golf with the other elites, while the workers toil away wasting their lives day after day for barely, and in many cases, less than they need to simply survive. They don't own a home, let alone several. They don't own a car, let alone several exotic imports. What they call" ice" comes from a freezer not Macy's.

The rich take way too much and give way too little to the actual producers of profits, the guy behind the counter of mcdonalds, the girl behind the register at walmart.

If not for the millions of illegal workers the elite allowed into this country, and corporate subsidies n the way of welfare brought on by the eilte to maintain this BS system, it would have already folded at minimum a decade ago.

You can't really think this current system is working for anyone but the elite if there is a brain cell in your head.

edit on 17-1-2014 by oblvion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 11:11 AM
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I can tell you that as a business owner (5 employees) if I had to double their wages they would be unemployed. Simple as that.
The idea of a living wage crazy also. Prices are based off the minimum wage. If mcdonalds has to pay workers $12 an hour, they will compensate by making Big Macs $9. Then your living wage will still not be enough because of price increases. Every action has a reaction.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by oblvion
 


Did you just say that owners of small companies don't do anything to make the company money? That's crazy talk.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


I won't quote your entire post, but sum it up.

If you had been disabled in your first 3 years......your done, military benefits are #, this is called lucky, especially in a 25 year career.

I was artillery, more specifically 13-E cannon fire direction control, I scored a 93 on the asvab, I took it in 30 mins because my recruiter got me there late, because he was a pos bravo foxtrot..........long story he went to jail, gets out in another 10.

The army didn't pay my tuition for college( computer and electronic engineering, had all A's btw), it was worse than submitting my receipts to tricare for medical for the pre go wife. In short I got screwed, happens a lot actually. Talked to 3 colonels and even the AG about it. In the end told to " just keep resubmitting it".

In the end I apparently owe $30,000 in student loans I can't pay, I haven't filed taxes in 7 years because I can't afford to H&R block for it, and even though my kids have lived with me their entire lives I owe their mother $38,000 in child support.

The system obviously works brother,



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 02:55 PM
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Actually, I think business owners and especially small business is misunderstood by most people that do not run a business. I also think that many people who spew this garbage about the demand for living wages is killing business do NOT realize that this MANTRA is only helping BIG BUSINESS succeed in paying slave wages, killing the benefits many Americans USE to get, and generally separating the haves & have nots...SO thanks to them! There are many such shills here on ATS. Success in America goes to the already successful...few are those able to realize the American Dream no matter HOW HARD they work

My business would NOT succeed were it not for the loyalty and production of my employees. YES, I do take a cut into my profits for the sake of providing my loyal employees more MONEY and truthfully I AM ELATED TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT WHEN I CAN. I keep them happy; they work harder, more carefully, and have a better attitude about what they are doing. My business flourishes in these conditions.

Overhead is what is killing me/us in the small business world. PAYROLL TAXES, WORKMEN'S COMP, INCREASING COSTS OF MATERIALS AND SUPPLIES, STATE TAXES, LOCAL TAXES, FEDERAL TAXES, SALES TAXES, COSTS OF (AND COMPLEXITY OF) ACCOUNTING, MANDATORY HEALTH INSURANCE, INCREASING COST OF UTILITIES (ELEC, WATER, INTERNET,), INSPECTION FEES, RIDICULOUS SAFETY COMPLIANCE EQUIPMENT AND COSTLY PROCEDURES, INCREASING RENT, INCREASING SHIPPING COSTS, AND A WHOLE HOST OF OTHER BULLSQUAT FEES ASSOCIATED WITH PAYING EVERYONE THAT HAS THE POWER TO TAKE FROM US. HOW ABOUT $500 to renew my city Business Lic every year?

The above list applies to any kind of business whether service, retail, or manufacturing. I am in a unique retail sales niche.

Add that to the diminishing mark-up/margin between wholesale and retail, which use to be about 50%, hovering around 12%. BIG BUSINESS works on the principle that selling 1,000,000 items at a dollar profit makes a million dollars. WAL-MART can do that, and they have done just that. In the meantime, the Waltons are worth BILLIONS, have killed Small Business everywhere, and their people are paid squat. They are given all sorts of tax incentives, breaks by cities to open shop in their communities, and can generally afford to comply with A BILLION MILES OF RED TAPE THAT GO ALONG WITH OWNING A SMALL/BIG BUSINESS.

People want cheap crap because people in this paradigm can ONLY AFFORD cheap crap. Gone is the day of competition, of quality, of products that last for a lifetime or darn close to it. Look at where you can go to buy everything needed for daily life these days...the list is short, and getting shorter and shorter, while some people are cheering it on.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 03:26 PM
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HanzHenry
IF the rich don't want to pay a living wage. FINE,

don't let THEM make ANY profit..

And next hopefully people will find ways to destroy them. When 10 hungry unemployed people KNOW the rich guy has food. Hopefully they will take the rich out.

If everyone cant be rich then die fighting and making sure NOONE is.


I made a point to log in just to tell you how much I agree with you. I don't understand why more don't have this mindset. Right on.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 

Ya exactly the whole thing is pointless and meaningless. And in most casinos the meals are way overpriced to begin with, the majority who go there dont really bother looking all that close at the meal prices anyways, most times like this story and everything else you hear in these sort of cases are 99% bull# and propaganda on one part or another. And the likeliest thing is that they just reopened somewhere else, or same ol story of liquidating things and changing there logo and reopening at a latter date when this story is no longer relevant in the public eye...Which generally people will forget about it in a few weeks at most. That one dollar they save on labor adds up to 1000x that much more in profit over time.


Besides most if not all business today especially in the Americas and first world countries are just retailers of the things which are actually made in other countries for pennies on the dollar countries like say china, Malaysia ect ect. That's all business merely passing the buck on up at the expense of somebody else, and its likely that the workers there made more in tips then there actual pay rate, in fact pretty much everything you see out there is a scam one way or another most especially big giant business and corporations.

Whats more here is a tip on how to make them tips, I think most waitress and catering workers such at the ones in the casino or bars know. Lets say somebody pays you for a beer or meal, they give you a bill, you give them change or change is in the small amount like lets say 1$ what you do is you take that dollar and you take a marker and write SHIFT FACE on it, or other obscenities or you can be more creative such as even rip it a little. Then when you give that dollar back, its likely that they will see it and give it back to you as a tip. Or it will get passed around and end up as a tip anyways.

Now lets say in a regular 8 hour work schedule you get hundreds of people coming and going, well you do that to 100 people and in a place like a casino were everybody is either drunk or looking for fun or just out to impress nobody would notice that, well you do that to 50 random people and dollar bills then at the end of the day you got 50$ in your pocket. Much more then you would have made working hourly for that company or any company really. So ya workers and employers alike have ways of cutting corners, and giant corporations or even business like that casino. Well lets just say the little dollar scam would pale in comparison to there methods, and the mega rich people and corps..Well that is what the law is for, to pass rules and regulations that make them more richer some of them have whole truckloads of people whose only job is to go online and convince people of one thing or another. Its kind of like how every few years during elections you see the whole madness going on like clockwork.
edit on 5pmFridaypm172014f5pmFri, 17 Jan 2014 17:36:30 -0600 by galadofwarthethird because: sp


(post by DCPatriot removed for a manners violation)
(post by DCPatriot removed for a manners violation)

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