Workers Win Fight For Living Wage, Then Lose Jobs

reply to post by peck420


Please elaborate.

This is the case more than 90% of the time btw, the workers that are actually producing always suffer most and first, execs rarely if ever get pay cuts until the company folds. Or restructures and files bankruptcy f some type.

So how was I inaccurate in the slightest?

crazyewok
I dont know how it is in the USA but in the UK what the point of being paid if you cant live off it? You may as well just go throw yourself off a bridge.

I mean on uk minimum (not sure if its the same as in US) but in certain areas you just cant afford food, transport and shelter on the minimum the cost of just basic living is just too high.

Now I get that some jobs are not meant to be career jobs and just for students.
Thats great and slugging it out in a crap grease filled job for little pay never did me any harm at uni.
BUT
The problem is that because of the finicial collapse and shortage of REAL jobs people who have familys and repsonsibility now find themselfs with only these jobs avalible.

What im saying is rather than trying to make these entry jobs pay more, we should try and get more advanaced jobs back.

edit on 16-1-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

In the U.S. we lost millions of good jobs, most were replaced with , mcdonalds jobs, thanks for the jobs recovery obama .

Letting 17,000,000 illegals come in take what were once good jobs, at less that half the wage has ravaged the middle class.

Construction now pays slightly more than minimum wage in most places, unless you know somebody in the trades unions that can get you in. The .gov only highers union labor, pays 3 times more per hour than before the illegals came on average.

oblvion

NavyDoc

HanzHenry
IF the rich don't want to pay a living wage. FINE,

don't let THEM make ANY profit..

And next hopefully people will find ways to destroy them. When 10 hungry unemployed people KNOW the rich guy has food. Hopefully they will take the rich out.

If everyone cant be rich then die fighting and making sure NOONE is.

Spoken like a true Marxist. Well done! If we can't earn our way, we'll demand what we want instead of working for it. WHen that doesn't work, we'll destroy stuff. Nice.

Us tax payers are paying his profits through the welfare his workers require to stay living and working, all so he can buy another Mercedes he doesn't need and another home he can't even use most of the time, oh ya, don't forget more diamonds for his leather skinned wife, tanning beds have a cost, have to distract away from her leathery skin with ice, this is far more important than people working full time feeding their children after all.

I mean, he is doing all the hard work, screwing secretary, playing golf with the mayor...etc etc


Not like these worthless workers are doing ALL of the work and producing all of the profits or something.

I mean all they are doing is creating and selling all the products and or services while he sits on his fat arse making all the money, shoot they deserve even less.....worthless ingrates.

Nonsense. I see you love ignorant stereotypes, right out of the little red book. Someone starts a business: puts his life on the life, has an idea, has an inspiration, goes through the hassle and hard work and liability to get it up and running. Labor is a commodity--worth what value it brings to something or someone, if your labor is not worth what you think it is, you need to increase your skillsets and strive to better yourself, not tear someone else down.

NavyDoc


Nonsense. I see you love ignorant stereotypes, right out of the little red book. Someone starts a business: puts his life on the life, has an idea, has an inspiration, goes through the hassle and hard work and liability to get it up and running. Labor is a commodity--worth what value it brings to something or someone, if your labor is not worth what you think it is, you need to increase your skillsets and strive to better yourself, not tear someone else down.

But some people are just not business people or are just too stupid.

These people still need jobs though that put a roof over there heads and food in there stomachs (the basics) without the goverment haveing to top there wages up.

reply to post by NavyDoc


By your own admittance labor is worth what it makes.

Company makes 5,000,000 in profits, that is net not gross, but only pays 1.5 million in pay role out, this is a travesty, and the root cause of the decline in America.

The guy doing nothing, NOTHING to make or sell his companies goods or services is making and keeping all the gains.

At any store, the guy producing the goods stocking the shelves and selling them behind the counter is doing every piece of production and labor that makes every single dollar possible, but are bringing home next to none of the profits of the company.

The execs/owners are making many times more than all workers combined, this is retarded. Now on top of this, the workers are forced to get welfare from the .gov to live and eat. In essence the tax payers are paying the owner just employ people, despite the fact he is making plenty of money to much better.

This is the same downward spiral that collapsed Rome.

You really can't see how this entire situation is unsustainable and retarded?

I just can't believe that, I refuse to believe you can't see the end game of this scenario.

crazyewok

NavyDoc


Nonsense. I see you love ignorant stereotypes, right out of the little red book. Someone starts a business: puts his life on the life, has an idea, has an inspiration, goes through the hassle and hard work and liability to get it up and running. Labor is a commodity--worth what value it brings to something or someone, if your labor is not worth what you think it is, you need to increase your skillsets and strive to better yourself, not tear someone else down.

But some people are just not business people or are just too stupid.

These people still need jobs though that put a roof over there heads and food in there stomachs (the basics) without the goverment haveing to top there wages up.

Exactly.......how long until they are paying basically nothing and the .gov covering almost all the expenses to allow the worker to survive?

All in the name of the rediculous rich making and holding even more resources they don't need and couldn't use in 100 life times.

oblvion
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

By your own admittance labor is worth what it makes.

Company makes 5,000,000 in profits, that is net not gross, but only pays 1.5 million in pay role out, this is a travesty, and the root cause of the decline in America.

The guy doing nothing, NOTHING to make or sell his companies goods or services is making and keeping all the gains.

At any store, the guy producing the goods stocking the shelves and selling them behind the counter is doing every piece of production and labor that makes every single dollar possible, but are bringing home next to none of the profits of the company.

The execs/owners are making many times more than all workers combined, this is retarded. Now on top of this, the workers are forced to get welfare from the .gov to live and eat. In essence the tax payers are paying the owner just employ people, despite the fact he is making plenty of money to much better.

This is the same downward spiral that collapsed Rome.

You really can't see how this entire situation is unsustainable and retarded?

I just can't believe that, I refuse to believe you can't see the end game of this scenario.

Rome's downward spiral was about bread and circuses--politicians using handouts to buy votes and corruption in government. What you are doing is buying into the class warfare propaganda that TPTB use to divide people and get a large group of the population to demand more government, more laws, more taxes, and accept the loss of freedom that such will bring as long as they can "get those evil rich guys." Hook, line, and sinker.

reply to post by NavyDoc


They are providing bread and circuses already, can't you see that?

I am not buying into anything, you are my friend, the myth that a rich man isn't greedy enough to screw everyone to make an extra nickel.

What is welfare?

Bread, can you not already see the circuses all around also?

Walmart is the richest corporation in the history of man, most of their workers get welfare.

If they are making hundreds of millions in profits a year they should not have people being paid by you and I so they can feed their kids.

Walmart makes more than enough to pay their workers a decent wage, they don't because their workers eat from our checks, not their outlandish corporate profits.

Or am I just beating my head against a wall here?

I mean robber barons are just fine, they should actually pay these parasites doing all the actual profit making work less right?

reply to post by oblvion

Letting 17,000,000 illegals come in take what were once good jobs, at less that half the wage has ravaged the middle class.

I've starred ALL of your posts in the thread...but....let's not bring "illegals" into it.

They are mowing lawns, bussing tables, attaching shingles, etc. They did NOT 'take what were once good jobs' - they pulled up the slack for the 'welfare recipients' who were "too proud" to take those jobs.

It is NOT the fault of immigrants (documented or not), that people are taking advantage of the 'welfare' system.

It is THE FAULT of the corporations that, as you so eloquently described, are MILKING the system, both coming and going.

I'd like to "friend" you, but I'm afraid on the topic of immigrants, who are coming here for opportunities they DON'T HAVE in their home country, whose families are DYING of starvation, living in utter poverty, etc.... and no matter WHAT 'menial' job they find here, they are better off than where they left.

I appreciate your sensitivity and standing up for the workers:
I TOTALLY AGREE with you re off-shoring stealing jobs,
wages too low to thrive on (barely enough to 'survive')
and how TAXPAYERS subsidize these huge corporations,

ALL OF THAT! ^^^ Yes!!

But again, it's not the fault of the desperate migrants who have no other choice than to come here, or die/starve!!
(And they DO work hard.)

oblvion
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

They are providing bread and circuses already, can't you see that?

I am not buying into anything, you are my friend, the myth that a rich man isn't greedy enough to screw everyone to make an extra nickel.

What is welfare?

Bread, can you not already see the circuses all around also?

Walmart is the richest corporation in the history of man, most of their workers get welfare.

If they are making hundreds of millions in profits a year they should not have people being paid by you and I so they can feed their kids.

Walmart makes more than enough to pay their workers a decent wage, they don't because their workers eat from our checks, not their outlandish corporate profits.

Or am I just beating my head against a wall here?

I mean robber barons are just fine, they should actually pay these parasites doing all the actual profit making work less right?

Feeding your kids is your responsibility, is it not?

Of course we have bread and circuses. We have welfare and mindless entertainment and people clamor for more and more governmental control as long as they get their welfare check and "free healthcare" and people like you are being used to divert the attention from the real problems with class warfare rhetoric. Of course some wealthy people are dicks, but so many are also entrepreneurs who get things done and create wealth for a whole lot of people. The problem is not a company that wants to make a profit, the problem is the mindset that someone wants to live their life without bettering themselves and stick to a low skilled job that does no to create much value but wants to create more government to force their employers to pay them beyond what they are worth.

Business owners have not created our problems, people who are led by the nose by the power hungry and want someone else to fix all of their problems for them do. People want to trade their independence and freedom for a handout. They want to give up self reliance and force someone else to take care of them. They don't want to better themselves, the don't want to have to think and work hard--they want someone else to think for them. They cannot accept or even imagine the concept of personal responsibility--if they are having problems then is must be someone else's fault. Never could they imagine that the primary thing keeping them down is their poor choices and poor planning. It is always someone else's fault and it is always big brother they demand to come in and save them.

reply to post by NavyDoc

Feeding your kids is your responsibility, is it not?

Yes, but in order to do that, one has to actually be paid enough for the work they do, don't they?

MysterX
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Feeding your kids is your responsibility, is it not?

Yes, but in order to do that, one has to actually be paid enough for the work they do, don't they?

No, they need to be paid what they are worth. They need to not have kids until they are in a position to support them. We do know where babies come from now.

reply to post by NavyDoc

people who are led by the nose by the power hungry and want someone else to fix all of their problems for them do. People want to trade their independence and freedom for a handout. They want to give up self reliance and force someone else to take care of them. They don't want to better themselves, the don't want to have to think and work hard--they want someone else to think for them. They cannot accept or even imagine the concept of personal responsibility--if they are having problems then is must be someone else's fault. Never could they imagine that the primary thing keeping them down is their poor choices and poor planning. It is always someone else's fault and it is always big brother they demand to come in and save them.

Wow, NavyDoc.

This is a very broad brush you're using.

MOST of the people receiving assistance are working, or UNEMPLOYED, due to off-shore out-sourcing.

Are you really not in any way taking into consideration the people who have lost their good jobs to out-sourcing?

Have you ever seen the homeless-camp outside of Silicon Valley?
I'll see if I can dig up the link, and post it.

Here ya go:
WELCOME TO 'THE JUNGLE': The Largest Homeless Camp In Mainland USA Is Right In The Heart Of Silicon Valley

Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

reply to post by Komodo


Yep, agreed.

I used to earn the equivalent of $5 ph, back in the 80's too...at a Saturday job at 16 years old as a dishwasher in Pizzaland.

Before doing that, i used to go 'golf balling', get up early and go hunting all the lost golf balls and flog them back to the golfers...i used to earn nearly the $5 (probably about $3-4 as it goes) doing that too, but i was 13.

Expecting grown people to work for a similar amount of money now, over 30 years later, than i got working as a boy is an absolute piss take imo.

MysterX
reply to post by Komodo

 

Yep, agreed.

I used to earn the equivalent of $5 ph, back in the 80's too...at a Saturday job at 16 years old as a dishwasher in Pizzaland.

Before doing that, i used to go 'golf balling', get up early and go hunting all the lost golf balls and flog them back to the golfers...i used to earn nearly the $5 (probably about $3-4 as it goes) doing that too, but i was 13.

Expecting grown people to work for a similar amount of money now, over 30 years later, than i got working as a boy is an absolute piss take imo.

And those jobs are designed for kids. Expecting to support a family on a kid's job is an absolute piss take.

reply to post by wildtimes


I think you misunderstand my meaning.

I have not and will not talk down about the illegal immigrant problem, they are simply doing what anyone of us would try to do in the same situation.

Those at the controls not only made it easy though encouraged them to come, to take many jobs that were happily filled by middle class Americans.

I worked construction most of my early years, started in drywall, making pretty good money, around $500 a week bring home as an 18 year old in the 90's

They took all those jobs, working for less than half my pay, so I went to roofing( how ironic you should mention this trade) was making about $450 a week bring home starting out, they took this over as well at less than half what my crew was making, then framing, then masonry, then concrete.......

In the end, their business model was superior.

10 of them share the rent on a house, I can't compete with only the wife and kids an I in a house, I had to move on and find different work.

I don't blame them, they followed the money just like I did.

This did though, destroy the trades and many well paying middle class jobs, that sustained the American middle class for generations.

Now you work for mcdonalds pay in retail, or high pay in business, those are basically the only jobs left around now. As outsourcing, because the middle class lost so much disposable income they couldn't afford American made goods, to sustain price index and corporate profits, companies were forced overseas, there was no other option.

I don't blame the illegals for coming, who wouldn't?

They did though, act as one of the main catalysts of this situation.

It is the .gov that allowed this to occur. In no other country on earth do they allow 17,000,000 illegal low pay workers to flood their work force in so short a time, as it is obvious this will drive middle class wages into the gutters, and cause this exact economic problem to happen.

It is finally stabilizing now, but at least 10 more years before that happens.

wildtimes
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

people who are led by the nose by the power hungry and want someone else to fix all of their problems for them do. People want to trade their independence and freedom for a handout. They want to give up self reliance and force someone else to take care of them. They don't want to better themselves, the don't want to have to think and work hard--they want someone else to think for them. They cannot accept or even imagine the concept of personal responsibility--if they are having problems then is must be someone else's fault. Never could they imagine that the primary thing keeping them down is their poor choices and poor planning. It is always someone else's fault and it is always big brother they demand to come in and save them.

Wow, NavyDoc.

This is a very broad brush you're using.

MOST of the people receiving assistance are working, or UNEMPLOYED, due to off-shore out-sourcing.

Are you really not in any way taking into consideration the people who have lost their good jobs to out-sourcing?

Have you ever seen the homeless-camp outside of Silicon Valley?
I'll see if I can dig up the link, and post it.

Here ya go:
WELCOME TO 'THE JUNGLE': The Largest Homeless Camp In Mainland USA Is Right In The Heart Of Silicon Valley

Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

edit on 1/16/14 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

That is exactly what we hear over and over again. "Someone else's fault."

The sad thing, is that people demand more government action from the same government that makes business harder in the US so jobs are outsourced where the business climate is much friendlier.

reply to post by NavyDoc


Scenario...Man or Woman has well paid job for years...have family, buy the house, payments on the car, furniture, college fund, and all the rest of the stuff people pay out for...business closes, Man or Woman out of work, family to feed and educate, medical to buy...and all the rest.

It's really patronising of you to paint everyone on a low wage with the same brush mate, it's even more so, expecting them to work for peanuts when the business they're working for is swimming in profits.

And yeah, most people are screwed often enough to know where babies come from.

oblvion
reply to post by wildtimes

 

I think you misunderstand my meaning.

I have not and will not talk down about the illegal immigrant problem, they are simply doing what anyone of us would try to do in the same situation.

Those at the controls not only made it easy though encouraged them to come, to take many jobs that were happily filled by middle class Americans.

I worked construction most of my early years, started in drywall, making pretty good money, around $500 a week bring home as an 18 year old in the 90's

They took all those jobs, working for less than half my pay, so I went to roofing( how ironic you should mention this trade) was making about $450 a week bring home starting out, they took this over as well at less than half what my crew was making, then framing, then masonry, then concrete.......

In the end, their business model was superior.

10 of them share the rent on a house, I can't compete with only the wife and kids an I in a house, I had to move on and find different work.

I don't blame them, they followed the money just like I did.

This did though, destroy the trades and many well paying middle class jobs, that sustained the American middle class for generations.

Now you work for mcdonalds pay in retail, or high pay in business, those are basically the only jobs left around now. As outsourcing, because the middle class lost so much disposable income they couldn't afford American made goods, to sustain price index and corporate profits, companies were forced overseas, there was no other option.

I don't blame the illegals for coming, who wouldn't?

They did though, act as one of the main catalysts of this situation.

It is the .gov that allowed this to occur. In no other country on earth do they allow 17,000,000 illegal low pay workers to flood their work force in so short a time, as it is obvious this will drive middle class wages into the gutters, and cause this exact economic problem to happen.

It is finally stabilizing now, but at least 10 more years before that happens.

I can't disagree with that point. THe government not only turns a blind eye to illegals coming in and undercutting the American worker but actively encourage it with welfare, benefits, education, healthcare, etc. The democrats do it because they want a whole new class of democrat voters. The republicans enable it because they want votes from people who want cheap labor.

reply to post by NavyDoc


Eh?

I'm not sure you get the point..in fact, i'm certain you don't.

To clarify...AS a child over 30 years ago, i was earning the same money AS these adults are earning today!

(It sorta highlights JUST how LOW the wages in this story are today, not how wealthy i was washing dishes and finding golf balls)