Workers Win Fight For Living Wage, Then Lose Jobs

ownbestenemy Owning a car isn't going to save you much more money than not owning one, especially if you don't really "own" the vehicle and are paying a loan for it.

only if you consider your time to be worthless and are buying something you cant afford (go look on craigslist and i can almost guarantee youll find working cars for under $1000 in your area.... in fact if youre still in vegas i already looked for you and found several)

reply to post by sirhumperdink


You left out a key word. (Reliable) just saying $1000 don't buy much of a car.

oblvion
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I won't quote your entire post, but sum it up.

If you had been disabled in your first 3 years......your done, military benefits are #, this is called lucky, especially in a 25 year career.

I was artillery, more specifically 13-E cannon fire direction control, I scored a 93 on the asvab, I took it in 30 mins because my recruiter got me there late, because he was a pos bravo foxtrot..........long story he went to jail, gets out in another 10.

The army didn't pay my tuition for college( computer and electronic engineering, had all A's btw), it was worse than submitting my receipts to tricare for medical for the pre go wife. In short I got screwed, happens a lot actually. Talked to 3 colonels and even the AG about it. In the end told to " just keep resubmitting it".

In the end I apparently owe $30,000 in student loans I can't pay, I haven't filed taxes in 7 years because I can't afford to H&R block for it, and even though my kids have lived with me their entire lives I owe their mother $38,000 in child support.

The system obviously works brother,

Did you get out after 911?

When I went back to college lately it was extremely easy to sign up and have VA pay for it all..I'm curious when all this happened to you.

It is the law of the land. They are not of the USA so no harm, no foul. Haha We have done equally to them! Cant you feel it??????

Hoosierdaddy71
reply to post by sirhumperdink

 

You left out a key word. (Reliable) just saying $1000 don't buy much of a car.

it can if you know what youre looking at

reply to post by sirhumperdink


Lets calculate here. It takes 1 hour to get to work on public transportation and 1 hour to get back. (this is actual time here for my husband) So this is 2 hours a day. 10.00 per hour x 2 = 20.00 (this is 400.00 a month in time if you want to calculate it as money)

Cost of a monthly unlimited use pass = 50.00

Total cost of public transportation a month = 450.00

Cost of a vehicle 1,300.00 for a reliable vehicle which will last 4 years before it shoots craps. 1300 divided by 4 divided by 12 = 27.08 a month

taxes and tags = 75.00 per year = 75 divided by 12 = 6.25 a month

Gas = 3.32 a gallon, car gets 30 miles to the gallon so 2 gallons a day = 6.64 a day

time to get to work (since we calculated time using public transportation then we have to equal it out by calculating time spent driving also) therefore, its a 25 minute drive, calculate 5 minutes each way to get in the car and into work, since I calculated the time he walked out the door to the time he clocked in, in the public transportation cost... so 1 hour a day = (10.00 x 5) x 4 = 200.00

Car Maintenance and upkeep. This study says the annual cost of upkeep is 6,967 a year Study but for the sake of argument lets calculate it at 1,200 a year instead, since I think that is a bit high myself. 1200 divided by 12 = 100 a month.

Insurance for your car = 40.00 a month.

Total Vehicle expense = 379.97 (+ 30.00 a month saving for your next car) = 409.97

Therefore, you are correct. Driving a cheap car will save you 40.03 a month in my location.

Now, public transportation is a necessity to save up for a car... because it is NOT cheaper when you have a car payment and full coverage insurance. But if you save up and purchase an inexpensive car, and learn how to do some of your own car maintenance, then you can save a bit of money, and have a little more time to boot. What people have to remember, is that the whole time you own a car, you have to be saving for your next one... so that when SHTF in your life concerning your car, you can purchase another quickly and without worry.

For those who do not calculate time as money however, since you aren't earning money during this time regardless, then it is much cheaper to take public transportation. This is the mindset of: I will spend extra time I have, to save money. This mindset says: I will save 159.97 a month if I spend extra time, 1 hour a day. That is 8.00 a day a person can save, using time they weren't spending working anyway.

So all in all, it depends on your mindset when you are in the vicinity of public transportation which one will save you money.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I appreciate the run down, as when I made the comment that led to this line of reasoning, I assumed people would do it on their own. Ultimately it was to highlight that a car isn't needed to make money or find work (for the most part). People who decry that they cannot afford a car, therefore they cannot work (and somehow place themselves in an imaginary circle that perpetuates this line of thinking) is nonsense in my opinion.

Even if one doesn't calculate their free time as money, they should at least look at the utility of that free time. If one has to take public transportation and are eating up an hour or so doing so, there is an opportunity to: study for class, read a book, write something, sleep, etc, etc. Utility is just as important as capital.

reply to post by Xtrozero


So instead of paying someone a fair wage for work they actually
do, we should pay investors to sit and watch trees grow with
the rest of that money? yeah that makes sense, someone who
does nothing at all other than "invest" is somehow earning what
he is being paid while at the same time someone who actually
does something to help make that money is the mooch?? what
the heck.

bloodreviara
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

So instead of paying someone a fair wage for work they actually
do...

And what is this "fair wage"? Who sets it? Is $10/hour a fair wage? What about $15/hour? Maybe to some, they think $20/hour is "fair".....

yeah that makes sense, someone who
does nothing at all other than "invest" is somehow earning what
he is being paid while at the same time someone who actually
does something to help make that money is the mooch?? what
the heck.

Yeah...you make complete sense....

reply to post by ownbestenemy


A fair wage is one you can actually live on, you know pay bills,
buy a car, eat, send your kids to school. Did i really need to
point this out. So your saying that by investing your actually
doing really honest to goodness work? how does it not make
sense? They want to be paid for work others are doing,
so they invest and claim they earn part of someones hard
work......

Makes perfect sense to me.

My point is investors somehow feel entitled to money
they didn't earn and balk at the concept of giving someone
who actually earns them that money a fair cut of the
deal. That is my point.

bloodreviara
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

A fair wage is one you can actually live on, you know pay bills,
buy a car, eat, send your kids to school.

So what is this fair wage then? If we set it at say $15/hour, who is to say that someone will not come along and say they deserve $17/hour for it to be fair...or maybe $20/hour. Maybe the Government should just place a floor of $30/hour to cover all those who think they deserve a "fair" wage.

So your saying that by investing your actually
doing really honest to goodness work? how does it not make
sense? They want to be paid for work others are doing,
so they invest and claim they earn part of someones hard
work......

No I never said that, you said that. I asked what a fair wage was. You have projected via your own views to assume. First, why does it bother you if someone can invest in a venture? Because they can? Because you can't? I am curious.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


I was in a position a few years ago where I was without anything. At the same time, I was needing to take some time rebuilding for a better future for myself.

I made a choice. I chose to live in a city that had public transportation, and went from there. In order to start over, completely from scratch and do it the right way, public transportation is an absolute must or you will end up in unmanageable debt, which I personally wont do. I have only once in my life had a car loan, if I cannot buy it I figure I cannot afford it.

I moved. I moved away from an area I lived for a very long time into the middle of a large city so that I could take advantage of public transportation and several other things that would give me a better re-start on life.

Most people wont do that, moving is scarey, even when its beneficial. I am not sure even I would have made these choices if I had not been in such an untenable position, but I am VERY glad I did, and would recommend it to anyone who needs to start over.

Both my husband and I use the public transportation here. I love saving the money, and we both work. Public transportation doesn't stop you from having a job, it just means you have to leave earlier.

The reason I did the calculation, is because it helps people to see everything spelled out on paper.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


I could not give you an exact number for a fair living wage, it really depends
on what part of the country you live in. My problem with investing and investors
is exactly what i have stated. They want to paid for work they are unwilling to
do. My main issue with all of this is that clearly there are major problems in
our country and its economy, doing things the same way that got us here is
not going to fix it.

I could invest if i so desired but the truth is i would feel as though i was taking
something from someone who actually earned it, also i would feel as though
i am just encouraging the current problems with our economy.

The reality is that wages are simply not keeping up with the cost of living,
that is pretty well agreed upon by most, what isn't agreed upon is who is
going to give up some of their profit to fix it. The money is there it is
simply going mostly to the investors and not the folks who actually do
the work.

I feel as if folks are vilifying people who just want to earn enough money
to exist without being in a constant state of fear for the next bills that will
be due. These people work hard and do jobs that most don't want, they
make our lives easier by providing convenience and saving us time. Society
cannot expect every single person to go to college to earn a living wage,
some folks simply cannot make it through college because they lack the
intelligence, do you think they should be punished their entire life due
to inability to conform to our ideals? or maybe we could let them do the
jobs they can and are willing to do and pay them a living wage, whatever
that may be.

Blarg i get upset by this stuff because ive been there and ive been to
past that stage and i simply refuse to vilify those that are now stuck
in a position where they cannot afford child care because they have
a full time job and still don't make enough to survive on.

reply to post by bloodreviara


Since time immemorial there have been rich people and there have been poor people. The poor will always exist, just as the rich will.

What is messed up, is when the poor think they should live like the rich without doing the work to get there.

With no college, I owned my own business by the time I was 23 years old. 23 and I was a business owner. I worked my butt off and ended up with another business, and another. When I left my own business, I ended up as a district manager for another person's. I didn't get days off but very rarely, and I worked 16-18 hour days.

No college... just a LOT of drive. Drive is what is lacking with most people. Most people want 40 hour weeks and no responsibility at their job, and think they should live like the people who work 80-100 hour weeks with the weight of the world on their shoulders.

If people want to live like a lawyer, they should become one. If someone wants to live like a person without a care in the world, then they should figure out how to live on minimum wage, but no one owes anyone more since they aren't willing to work for any more.

If most were willing to work for more, then they wouldn't be crying about minimum wage. I know for a fact what it takes to get somewhere in life, and college isn't the only door there is, hard work and determination still opens more.

BTW. If anyone wants what you consider a livable wage, they should do a small trade. They pay more, and you don't have to work the hours it takes for other things. When I got sick of all the hours, and decided I would like to spend more time raising my kids, I went to school and got my LPN license. It didn't take long, and was a living wage. If your a man, try mig welding or getting certified to operate heavy machinery. Things like that dont take long, and pay a good wage.

OpinionatedB
When I got sick of all the hours, and decided I would like to spend more time raising my kids, I went to school and got my LPN license. It didn't take long, and was a living wage.

Kinda defeats everything else you have posted.

bloodreviara

I could not give you an exact number for a fair living wage, it really depends
on what part of the country you live in. My problem with investing and investors
is exactly what i have stated. They want to paid for work they are unwilling to
do. My main issue with all of this is that clearly there are major problems in
our country and its economy, doing things the same way that got us here is
not going to fix it.

Isn't this apples and oranges here?

Lets say you want to start a business and you get people to back you with money, (investors) you start in your garage, and hire a hand full, a few years later you have 50 people working for you, and a few years more you have 500. Those investors have done nothing this whole time but to risk their money to make it all happen. Is this wrong?

I could invest if i so desired but the truth is i would feel as though i was taking
something from someone who actually earned it, also i would feel as though
i am just encouraging the current problems with our economy.

That is your problem here it seems you think that a dollar is some kind of mystical thing that a person should work with their hands 8 ,10 ,12 hours per day making only what they can bring into their house with only using their available time at hand. You know that might be your problem, because THAT IS THE WORST WAY TO MAKE MONEY TO LIVE ON!

When you are young that is all you have, time. As you grow older, more skilled, smarter etc you should do jobs that not everyone can do, and not just staying stuck at some level where you end up living month to month forever. As you get better, your offered better jobs and so you make more money since what you do is more valuable to an employer. You save here and there and INVEST it into other adventures, letting your money actually work for you and not letting it sit a shoe box. At some point you stop working because your money can make more than you can physically make yourself....

The living wage is a myth that people who are stuck with just a per hour income see as some kind of relief, but can never figure out how it all actually works...

reply to post by teslahowitzer


Are you stupid? Canada has high labor costs. we are not like mexico or china. we have the same issues you do (albiet we have a better government and military training) but we are not cheap labor. our minimum wage is almost $11 an hour and that is non negotiable. $5 is unheard of here. you dont know what you are talking about. oh by the way, my igloo is melting, ill pay you 30 bucks an hour to fix it.

Silentc7
reply to post by teslahowitzer

 

Are you stupid? Canada has high labor costs. we are not like mexico or china. we have the same issues you do (albiet we have a better government and military training) but we are not cheap labor. our minimum wage is almost $11 an hour and that is non negotiable. $5 is unheard of here. you dont know what you are talking about. oh by the way, my igloo is melting, ill pay you 30 bucks an hour to fix it.

edit on 18-1-2014 by Silentc7 because: (no reason given)

Wait what? 11 Canadian is only 10 US dollars and it is more expensive to live there AND your taxes are about double what it is here. How can you justify such a non-living wage?

What I see here is a bunch of people arguing about an entirely different issue than the one that causes the problem.

The issue is credit, it has been the issue since of 2007/2008, actually since 1913, but that was a long time ago and this mess was a long time coming.

The issue isn't so much about short term paper to pay employees, it's about employers needing to get short term loans to pay employees, as in creating something that does not exist and has no real value, that represents something real to be created later.

As in possessing no real capital. Vapor.

Everybody is floating checks, everybody!, and not like you really have a choice since living within your means is actually living like a king in the U.S..

Wants and Needs?, Huh?, what is the difference between dem dare thingabobs?,how duz yous spell dat?....

Now, regarding a living wage, I am 52 and discriminating against me based on age is illegal, but it happens for sure. Wouldn't you rather hire an ignorant kid that is in debt for educational expenses and doesn't really actually know anything?, and most degree holders really don't know much about anything but what was covered by their getting that degree..than a guy who knows how the system works?, compared to a guy my age who actually understands how full of # most business people are, I would hire the young and exploitable kid.

I know it's about profit, but your business does not support your flamboyant, arrogant and exorbitant lifestyle, your lifestyle supports your business, and your business takes care of your most valued asset which is your workers.

And because human labor is the most expensive component of any business, laws will be passed to exploit that component making what was unlawful yesterday lawful tomorrow since businesses and corporations have the money to throw at lawyers to write legislation, lobbyists to grease the palms of those scum in Washington and get it in a position to be voted upon, however wrong or unfair to whomever it may be, and manipulate labor laws to make more profit for themselves and exploit laborers.

It has absolutely nothing to do with how much skill anyone possesses, excepting the skill of the guys who design and build the machines that will replace nearly all of us.

There is nothing new going on here, the MSM just has you barking up the wrong tree as usual.

If people listened to what their grandparents were saying before they died, their memories and experience would not have died with them, because these issues keep coming up over and over again in cycles.

reply to post by Xtrozero


It's pretty easy to get by when all of your medical care is covered by the state.

Ok, I hear it coming "But it's such poor medical care...." whoever says that just doesn't want to get off that gravy train, that would be the medical industry and insurance industry which would want to keep you thinking those erroneous thoughts.

We are all being screwed, but they are nice enough to use lube still, but eventually lube will be eliminated to cut costs, just like when they turned off the light at the end of the tunnel to save on electricity.