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the Koch Card ;; Democrat ObamaCare Panic

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posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 10:26 AM
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Forgive me If I am wrong, but didn't the Heritage Foundation and by extension the Koch bros create the framework for the Affordable Care Act back during the Clinton presidency?


Actually, the Heritage Foundation created Obamacare in 1989, well before the Clinton presidency. As far as I can tell, They didn't denounce it until Obama was elected.




posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 10:30 AM
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xuenchen

the whole point was to offer a feeble alternative to HillaryCare


Your post is full of lies, but that one is obvious, and we have gone over it before. The Heritage Plan, as they called it, was described in a book in 1989, long before Hillarycare was on the horizon. There is no possibility that it was written as an alternative to Hillarycare.


SM2

posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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DrEugeneFixer

Forgive me If I am wrong, but didn't the Heritage Foundation and by extension the Koch bros create the framework for the Affordable Care Act back during the Clinton presidency?


Actually, the Heritage Foundation created Obamacare in 1989, well before the Clinton presidency. As far as I can tell, They didn't denounce it until Obama was elected.


Well, to be fair, the Heritage foundation plan which can be found here

thf..._media.s3.amazonaws.com/1989/pdf/hl218.pdf

is totally different if you actually read it.

First off, it provides tax credits across the board to everyone, as opposed to Obamacare's massive tax hikes. , specifically a 20% tax credit across the board that would rise based on your medical care expenditures.

allowing you to convert 401(k) other retirement accounts, savings and life insurance policies to various medical and long term care policies.

it also called for removing the employer mandate and sifted the tax benefits of providing insurance from the employer to the individual tax payer.

the publication also carries the message

"Note : Nothing written here is to be construed as necessarily reflecting the views of the heritage foundation"

heres an article written by the gentleman that wrote the proposal

usatoday30.usatoday.com...



edit on 30012 by SM2 because: (no reason given)

edit on 06012 by SM2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 01:52 PM
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GrantedBail
reply to post by xuenchen
 


You are so ignorant. I can't believe how you could applaud big money upending our voting process. You are so stuck into the left right paradigm that you can't see how you are manipulated and used for the billionaires that are co-opting not only legislation but the governance of this country.

Your trip is you want to piss on Obama and his signature legislation. I don't care. I am against it with every fiber of my body. But to sell yourself out to a group that has zero respect for you or the human race just because the are anti-Obamacare.

You are what is wrong with this country. You are like the poor people in W. Virginia that have continually voted against their own interests.

Your too dense to get it. And I really don't care. I get it.


Excellent post, its really sad seeing so many manipulated by the Koch brothers and their ilk. I do care that him and others don't get it though, they provide the army of dupes that propels the Koch agenda. I used to be Republican to mostly over issues like gun rights but after a short time I realized they were just using that and other social issues to get people to support an economic agenda that doesn't help anyone except people like Koch brothers.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 02:41 PM
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The debate over who originally came up with the health care program could go on forever, but I think the point is:

obama care is making society take a giant leap backwards, and something needs to be done to stop the devastation. We can't wait until the next election for a 'fix'.

Also, I though personal attacks were against T&C policy.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by SM2
 




"Note : Nothing written here is to be construed as necessarily reflecting the views of the heritage foundation"

Keyword 'necessarily' They were actively promoting this plan and called it 'The Heritage Plan'.

Yes there are differences, but the similarities are overwhelming...

1. the individual mandate.
2. standards and requirements for all health insurance policies.
3. No discrimination for pre-existing conditions
4. Some kind of subsidy to help poorer people pay.

The bottom line is this. Obamacare is, at its core, a conservative plan. It was modeled after the Heritage Plan in an attempt to gain Republican votes. Only after Obama made the proposal did conservative politicians suddenly realize the Heritage Plan and Romneycare were evil socialism.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by DrEugeneFixer
 


I love your obfuscation.

In the end though, who voted for it?

Who voted against it?



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by DrEugeneFixer
 


It was a set up. The classic bait type.

Somebody fell ass over teakettle for it !! (double pun intended)

Now we know why Republicans in Congress in those days never brought it forward for vote.

I don't think it ever got out of Committee.

Apparently they laughed it off. Understandable now, seeing the joke that it is.

But if you insist.....



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


An analogy.

I write an opinion piece on the merits of hitting yourself in the head with a ball peen hammer.

Years later, democrats think a wonderful idea would be to hit yourself in the head with a ball peen hammer. They like it so much, they make it mandatory. A unanimous vote.

Yet some would blame me because I wrote the piece?



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 





In the end though, who voted for it?


Democrats did, because our country spends approximately 2X what others do for no better results, and many people are left without insurance because of a shoddily designed system. Mind you, private health insurance premiums were increasing in price at an unsustainable pace, and the system was headed for a crisis. Responsible people knew that something was going to have to be done.




Who voted against it?


Republicans, because they didn't want Obama to have any achievements at all. Their top priority was to make him a 1-term president. That's right, when the economy was tanking at near great depression levels, Republicans' top priority was to make Obama a 1-term president. It didn't matter to them that it was their plan in the first place. Now it was Obama's plan, so it would have to be trashed at all costs. Maybe they could have made the bill better by negotiating, but they decided it was preferable to attempt to derail it outright. They failed. Now all they can do is make daily 'Obamacare Doom Porn' threads on ATS and post the same old lies again.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Koch brothers are hardly a problem, its the George Soros communists connection which is a threat to America. The democrats can always get some donation from George Soros when they need it.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by DrEugeneFixer
 


So democrats own it, correct?

I think they do.

I think they should embrace it. They own it. They voted for it. And those like yourself, voted for those who voted FOR it.


Um, forgive me if I don't thank you.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by nugget1
 


U r partially right. Clinton gave us NAFTA which shipped jobs offshore and sold America out. He also encouraged the flexible guidelines to Fannie mae and FEDDIE mac which lead to the housing collapse. He wanted everyone to be able to get in a home, so they made the guidelines a joke.

They left only appears like they want to help the poor because they adopted the Marxists ideology to pander to the poor for votes, but really don't intend to fix anything.

The BUshes I do agree that they don't do anything good. That's why the hard right calls them RINO and neo cons. They don't really represent anything but themselves. They are demo-lites essential.

The hard right like ROn Paul and Ted Cruz represent the real conservatives not the fake ones in name only. However, they Rep establishment like to hold them down and try to discredit them when they speak the truth.

I see both establishment Republican and est Democrats as the same like the WWE. Fake opposition.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 09:18 PM
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amfirst1
reply to post by nugget1
 


U r partially right. Clinton gave us NAFTA which shipped jobs offshore and sold America out. He also encouraged the flexible guidelines to Fannie mae and FEDDIE mac which lead to the housing collapse. He wanted everyone to be able to get in a home, so they made the guidelines a joke.

They left only appears like they want to help the poor because they adopted the Marxists ideology to pander to the poor for votes, but really don't intend to fix anything.

The BUshes I do agree that they don't do anything good. That's why the hard right calls them RINO and neo cons. They don't really represent anything but themselves. They are demo-lites essential.

The hard right like ROn Paul and Ted Cruz represent the real conservatives not the fake ones in name only. However, they Rep establishment like to hold them down and try to discredit them when they speak the truth.

I see both establishment Republican and est Democrats as the same like the WWE. Fake opposition.



You have alot of really good neocon talking points, but absolutely nothing else to back them up. Rush is that you?



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by BubbaJoe
 


So u say Ted Cruz and Ron Paul is a neo con?? puahhaha where is it in there that I support the Neo cons. U do know that Bush is a neocon, which I don't support.

Those are my talkiing points. I'm in the mortgage business so I know for a fact that the government caused the 2008 collapse because of their pathetic guidelines which made it easy for anyone to get a mortgage.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 10:27 PM
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amfirst1
reply to post by BubbaJoe
 


So u say Ted Cruz and Ron Paul is a neo con?? puahhaha where is it in there that I support the Neo cons. U do know that Bush is a neocon, which I don't support.

Those are my talkiing points. I'm in the mortgage business so I know for a fact that the government caused the 2008 collapse because of their pathetic guidelines which made it easy for anyone to get a mortgage.


Ted Cruz is Christian Dominionist, by my guidelines as an agnostic individual, he is a non entity.

You don't know anything, glad the mortgage business brought you big cash. But by your admission the Bush presidency brought down your industry.

I do taxes for a living maybe I should audit your return, before the IRS does. You don't know anything for a fact.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 10:35 PM
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amfirst1
reply to post by nugget1
 


U r partially right. Clinton gave us NAFTA which shipped jobs offshore and sold America out. He also encouraged the flexible guidelines to Fannie mae and FEDDIE mac which lead to the housing collapse. He wanted everyone to be able to get in a home, so they made the guidelines a joke.

They left only appears like they want to help the poor because they adopted the Marxists ideology to pander to the poor for votes, but really don't intend to fix anything.

The BUshes I do agree that they don't do anything good. That's why the hard right calls them RINO and neo cons. They don't really represent anything but themselves. They are demo-lites essential.

The hard right like ROn Paul and Ted Cruz represent the real conservatives not the fake ones in name only. However, they Rep establishment like to hold them down and try to discredit them when they speak the truth.

I see both establishment Republican and est Democrats as the same like the WWE. Fake opposition.




A little disinfo, or a troll, check the language, and usage. Koch brother employee. They would never hire anyone legal, they would actually have to pay them.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by BubbaJoe
 


R u mentally ill? U don't make any sense.

Bush contributed to the crash because he didn't do anything to prevent it. It's not like I am protecting him. It also had a lot of the feds destructive policies of holding down the interest rate and raising it when the economy was about to blow coupled with fannie mae and freddie mac easy guidelines it created the perfect bubble.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 10:47 PM
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amfirst1
reply to post by BubbaJoe
 


R u mentally ill? U don't make any sense.

Bush contributed to the crash because he didn't do anything to prevent it. It's not like I am protecting him. It also had a lot of the feds destructive policies of holding down the interest rate and raising it when the economy was about to blow coupled with fannie mae and freddie mac easy guidelines it created the perfect bubble.


I do f'ng taxes for a living, I am probably very mentally ill. And all of the little good mortgage brokers took advantage of it, and now want to blame it on some one else. Oh I was a good guy back in the day, and wrote all kinds of shady loans, that should now be forgiven, and I should now be granted unicorn status.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 11:22 PM
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Thorneblood
reply to post by SM2
 


By that I assume you mean the American people, since ya know, they voted every one into office in the first place right?
Since you voted, even if it wasn't for certain people in office, then you too are accountable for playing into the system.


So if I go to the voting booth and write-in "no confidence" for each candidate you believe that actually bolsters the credibility of the system? If 1,000 people voted, and 800 of them wrote in "no confidence" that would destroy the credibility of the election.



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