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Who Lost the 2.3 Trillion ?

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posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by samkent
 


They did and it was noticed. Maybe not over 5-10years. More likely over 20-30 years. I am sure many of those who noticed had incentive to look the other way.

I'm not one of those who think Bush or Rumsfeld was directly responsible for the attacks, I believe they were merely puppets getting their strings pulled by much more powerful forces. 9/11 reminds me of a conspiracy theory I heard from the Kennedy era. Essentially the Joint Chiefs of Staff and CIA wanted to stage false flag attacks all over the US and elsewhere to possibly gain popular support to invade Cuba. Kennedy fiercely rejected this and many believe this played an important role in his assassination. Today it is known as Operation Northwoods.




posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 11:47 AM
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They probably laundered it into the secret space program. I don't have any evidence, but that's the kind of money you'd need to run one. I mean, those black triangles don't come free.



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 11:58 AM
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So just because they word it in a way that pretty much says that the money is there, we just can't account for it. So do you really have it if you can't account for it? Should I be able to go to the bank and get a loan based on fact that i do have a bunch of money, i just can't "account" for it because of administrative issues? And you want proof but sorry all the docs that would show it were destroyed. How convenient.... Did you apply your "logic" test to that?



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 12:04 PM
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As usual short on facts long on theory. The Scotsbank based in London had stored $120,000,000 in Silver Bars and 110,000,000 in Gold bars under WTC 4 in a vault. Due to the density of the bars and their weight it took 31 trucks to haul them away. They have since made their way to Denver.

One of the silliest of truther buzz words was the 2.3 billion figure mentioned by Rumsfield. He had gotten a report from the Inspector General that at times " the military cannot account for 25 percent of what it spends'. Doing simple arithmetic the Defense Secretary came up with that figure in jest. No one took his statement seriously as he was poking fun at the 'duplication duties and bloated bureaucracy' of every single Cabinet office. Not one cent of money was ever missing.

Sorry Charlie this one is bunk too.

I should mention that the all time silliest/stupidest buzzwords were the so called 'financial motive' and the 'put-options' that was meant to say short sellers however it got into the truther heads and grew. These accusations are the top of the list of fall on the floor laughing at this totally stupid suggestion.

I think it was king truther Steven Jones that finally gave up trying to get others to drop this because it was so stupid-and this became the first complaint Jones made about 'plants' in the truther movement- thing is he was right.



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by MystikMushroom
 





They probably laundered it into the secret space program. I don't have any evidence, but that's the kind of money you'd need to run one. I mean, those black triangles don't come free.

Once again people are focusing on where the money went.
Anyone can speculate what it was spent on or whos bed it's under.

If you want believe in the conspiracy you should look both directions when crossing the trail.
Where did the money come from and why wasn't it reported missing long before 911 ?



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by spooky24
 


So why is it ok that they can't account for 25% of what they spend? Why is that ok??? And if you can't account for it... how can you say what happened to it? How do we know it wasn't stolen or sent somewhere else or burned joker style in a warehouse if it can't be accounted for?
All i am seeing is debunkers calling "truthers" gullible cause we believe that missing, unaccounted for, however you want to put it, 2.3 trillion dollars a big deal.



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by samkent
 


I don't understand what you are trying to get at or accomplish with this thread, no offense. We are talking trillions of dollars of a period of time, not one mischievous cookie bandit. "Who" spent it would be the military industrial/intelligence complex, "for" various materials and pay-offs as other duties assigned. If an actual audit was done it would likely be shown that is was gross mismanagement to a level and extent that it would be deemed obvious as intentional obfuscation.



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 12:24 PM
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if it can't be accounted for...it means there isn't a paper trail. Meaning...nobody (somebody probably does) knows where the money went. Now, that does not mean it was stolen as such...

One needs to ask himself...can we simply do this...get a budget...spend the money...leave no paper trail as to where the money went...and...???

That's that ? Back here in Croatia...it's called fraud. It's a not a wee little discrepancy. It's huge sum of money...




duplication duties and bloated bureaucracy' of every single Cabinet office. Not one cent of money was ever missing.


ridiculous. Unless duplicate duties and bloated bureaucracy is paid "under the table"...it should all be on the books...and thus...not unaccounted for.



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by Rosinitiate
 





I don't understand what you are trying to get at or accomplish with this thread, no offense. We are talking trillions of dollars of a period of time, not one mischievous cookie bandit. "Who" spent it would be the military industrial/intelligence complex, "for" various materials and pay-offs as other duties assigned.

You are correct in that you don't get it.

I don't care what the money was spent on once it was stolen. (I don't believe it was stolen.)
I do care where did it come from.
What government agency or agencies was it stolen from in the first place ?

It's easy for conspiracy believers to say it was spent on black ops. Or the fat cats pocketed the money or greased the palms of someone.
You can think up dozens of ways to spend money.
But not one believer has narrowed down the source of the money.
You can't simple say it was stolen from the government. If there was spare cash left over from the previous year congress would have spent it. That's what they do. It had to come out of someones budget.



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 01:17 PM
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Just as we must transform America's military capability to meet changing threats, we must transform the way the Department works and what it works on... Our challenge is to transform not just the way we deter and defend, but the way we conduct our daily business... The men and women of this department, civilian and military, are our allies, not our enemies. They too are fed up with bureaucracy, they too live with frustrations. I hear it every day. And I'll bet a dollar to a dime that they too want to fix it. In fact, I bet they even know how to fix it, and if asked, will get about the task of fixing it. And I'm asking. They know the taxpayers deserve better. Every dollar we spend was entrusted to us by a taxpayer who earned it by creating something of value with sweat and skill -- a cashier in Chicago, a waitress in San Francisco. An average American family works an entire year to generate $6,000 in income taxes. Here we spill many times that amount every hour by duplication and by inattention. That's wrong. It's wrong because national defense depends on public trust, and trust, in turn, hinges on respect for the hardworking people of America and the tax dollars they earn. We need to protect them and their efforts. Waste drains resources from training and tanks, from infrastructure and intelligence, from helicopters and housing. Outdated systems crush ideas that could save a life. Redundant processes prevent us from adapting to evolving threats with the speed and agility that today's world demands. Above all, the shift from bureaucracy to the battlefield is a matter of national security. In this period of limited funds, we need every nickel, every good idea, every innovation, every effort to help modernize and transform the U.S. military.... The technology revolution has transformed organizations across the private sector, but not ours, not fully, not yet. We are, as they say, tangled in our anchor chain. Our financial systems are decades old. According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 billion in transactions. We cannot share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible. We maintain 20 to 25 percent more base infrastructure than we need to support our forces, at an annual waste to taxpayers of some $3 billion to $4 billion. Fully half of our resources go to infrastructure and overhead, and in addition to draining resources from warfighting, these costly and outdated systems, procedures and programs stifle innovation as well. A new idea must often survive the gauntlet of some 17 levels of bureaucracy to make it from a line officer's to my desk. I have too much respect for a line officer to believe that we need 17 layers between us.


The entire report was about the waste in every single cabinet office. This is a part about the defense department and the bureaucracy that strangles it. Anyone who has run their own business knows that if 2 employees do the same job-your losing money unnecessarily. That is what this was about if you want a comparison all you have to do is look at the Postal Service.

No one stole anything they just needed to up grade and streamline. There is the right way, the wrong way and the Army's way.



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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The Comptroller for the Pentagon at the time was a dual citizen of another country.
The same country which had some of it's spies filming the towers and dancing in glee.
The same country which has politicians that brag about controlling the US Gov't.
edit on 10/06/2013 by Tusks because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by spooky24
 


And you are ok with that? Just chalk up the fact that we might have wasted 2.3T to bad tech, but if you get behind on your taxes,especially business owners like you alluded to would know couple things about that those small insignificant numbers compared to what we are talking are tracked to the criminal level? How are they able to keep track of OUR money so well when it comes to taking it from us but when it comes to checking what it was spent on? Sorry, we can't tell you that, we lost the receipts.....



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by Tusks
 





The Comptroller for the Pentagon at the time was a dual citizen of another country.

Are you saying the $2.3 trillion came from the Pentagons budget?
That's a tall statement since the DoDs entire budget for the year was just over $300 billion.



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by samkent
 


I don't think he was saying that it came out of the pentagon budget, more of look where the other citizenship was out of, or i believe that is what he is getting at.
Are you looking for a hard answer from someone or are you trying to get people to look into themselves? Because if you are looking for a hard answer, your not going to get it, that's the whole conspiracy right? No one knows where this money is, was, will be. It was "unaccounted" for and the paper trail destroyed. And if you are just asking the question, then you are being unresponsive to the answers you are getting, IMHO anyway



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by Sremmos80
 

I'm trying to put the logic bug in them.
You simply can't steal 2.3 trillion.
You can waste it but that's a different section of ATS.



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by samkent
 


Your thread is nonsense, even if it had nothing to do with 9/11, the money is still unaccounted for, Rumsfeld said so. You want to know what happened to the money years/dates go ask him.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by samkent
 



The biggest shame in all of the 911 conspiracies is the vast amount of money that was actually stolen but is never mentioned.
That crime was undertaken by all those people whose job it was to protect the US from terrorists who could have done something, but didn't.

If the Clinton and Bush administrations (and the west as a whole) had paid attention to the plight of Ahmad Shah Massoud and the intervention of foreign state intelligence services in Afghanistan, there is a very good chance 911 would have been averted.

edit on 16-1-2014 by Jukiodone because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-1-2014 by Jukiodone because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 05:19 AM
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I could not help but notice that there seems to be some debate over the 2.3 trillion figure.

Members quite rightly pointing out that the pentagon budget for 2001 not even $2.3Tn but $300bn but yes Rumsfeld did say $2.7Tn



So yes when truthers say that Rumsfeld said they could not track (not that they stole) $2.3Tn they are correct.

But that was not over the space of a year, its not like they lost that money over the space of 12 months but rather over a period of decades. If you think about this logically again, it would make no sense, the pentagon still paid soldiers ran all its serious departments and procured all its nice big shinny killing machines so one day they could go killing guys living in caves (I jest, kind of). Anyway had $2.3Tn been stolen in 2001 it would have been noticed and it would have been very obvious, American debt back then was around $5.5Tn, I really do think someone would have been making a lot of noise if more than half of that had been "stolen".

The truth is that this missing $2.3Tn went "missing" over the span of decades, its also worth remembering Rumsfeld was talking about "estimates" not hard figures. Its also worth remember that we were talking about a new DefSec at the time who might have pointing this out for political reasons as well, pointing out early on that the pentagon has some accounting problems would make it easier for him to later on claim that it was the result of democratic eara politics. So it is possible that there could have been some political motives behind this claim.

But it still leaves the question where did that missing cash come from, well it went missing essentially in the bureaucracy machine that is the pentagon.

I found this article from back in 2001 that provides some better explanation of how the figure came to be £2.3Tn.




If you add up the entire US defense budgets from 1996 to 2001, you only come up with circa 1.6 trillion. Yet, according to Rummy, not only was that much money lost, but an ADDITIONAL 700 BILLION dollars has disappeared. Remember, we're talking about 2.3 trillion dollars "missing."

Exact figures very by source, but are close to each other, so I'll deal in round numbers. To come up with 2.3 trillion dollars of military spending, you have to add up all the defense budgets from about 1991 to 2001. For all those years, the Pentagon spent hundreds of billions and didn't get a single receipt, didn't account for a single dime? Not possible, and no one's claiming that it happened. The missing money was part of some budget, but it's a number bigger than the defense budgets we're to believe it's a "part" of, so it was a part of some OTHER budget, one we don't know about.


Missing Pentagon Trillions.

Whats really amazing is what things look like with the pentagon budget today, recently the house passed a fiscal budget of $1.1Tn for 2014.

hear are some links if anyone is interested about pentagon budgets.

www.militarytimes.com...
www.cfr.org...
costsofwar.org...

Interesting to also note that none of this has anything to do with 9/11 and that is because, those missing trillions had nothing to do with 9/11.

It interesting all the same though i suppose.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 06:20 AM
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reply to post by Jukiodone
 





If the Clinton and Bush administrations (and the west as a whole) had paid attention to the plight of Ahmad Shah Massoud and the intervention of foreign state intelligence services in Afghanistan, there is a very good chance 911 would have been averted.


That, my friend, is an excellent point. One is just left to wonder how this could have been handled differently. Interestingly, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (Mukhtar) kind of danced around the assassination of Massoud in his confession, which is odd because he was, and still is, glorified by all those he has had a hand in killing. Could it have been that his alter ego (the world's super terrorist) had his pride bruised by the fact he had no hand in the assassination of Massoud?

We know that Massoud's counterinsurgency was receiving weapons through Iran possibly supplied by the Russians. This must have been a sour pickle for the JTTF and the CIA to swallow since they were supplying them as well. I have always felt that it's difficult to place blame on either the Bureau or the Agency since no one could have predicted what was already set in place in America.

Anyway, good to see someone posting that is clued in. It's funny and somewhat ironic to see a postage stamp with Massoud face on it.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 07:42 AM
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samkent
reply to post by Rosinitiate
 





I don't understand what you are trying to get at or accomplish with this thread, no offense. We are talking trillions of dollars of a period of time, not one mischievous cookie bandit. "Who" spent it would be the military industrial/intelligence complex, "for" various materials and pay-offs as other duties assigned.

You are correct in that you don't get it.

I don't care what the money was spent on once it was stolen. (I don't believe it was stolen.)
I do care where did it come from.
What government agency or agencies was it stolen from in the first place ?

It's easy for conspiracy believers to say it was spent on black ops. Or the fat cats pocketed the money or greased the palms of someone.
You can think up dozens of ways to spend money.
But not one believer has narrowed down the source of the money.
You can't simple say it was stolen from the government. If there was spare cash left over from the previous year congress would have spent it. That's what they do. It had to come out of someones budget.


There nothing wrong with having a blind and deaf argument with yourself. You get to pick who wins that way.


Pretty sure Rumsfeld said the money can't be accounted for, I say it can't be accounted for. The "records" were destroyed.....right? You put words in the mouth of others to justify your point. Just because people can't articulate their point doesn't justify you to put words in the mouth of all "truthers". Its a weak attempt and justifying a weak argument. Desperation on the cusp of madness, if nothing else, the desperate attempts at discrediting on validates people concerns.

And again, as a "truther" since you like labels I'll repeat my point, you know the one you skipped over...




Pretty sure the whole point of announcing the unaccounted for trillions had nothing to do with 911 other than never letting a good tragedy go to waste. Assuming the 911 conspiracy perpetrators (within the White House) were true, then the only point I'd see of them doing it would be for it to get lost in the 24hr news cycle knowing that what's about to come will make it irrelevant anyway. What I do consider curious is the announcement made by Rumsfeld was on a Tuesday. Why is that curious? Well I'd expect the government to drop a bombshell like that on a Friday when people aren't listening and by Monday Justin Beiber would have been caught with his pants down.

edit on 16-1-2014 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)




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