Public Schools: Prisons By Any Other Name

reply to post by tencap77


reply to post by tencap77


I went to a Catholic school, I'm assuming you're much older than me based on your experience. Liked it WAY more than any other school I attended. I never got hit (no one did), we were told we didn't have to say the pledge if we didn't want to (and some kids didn't), the teachers would let us discuss just about anything (including questioning religion), encouraged debate (even with the teachers) and embraced the students that weren't Catholic. It's changed a lot, shoot we had sex ed in 4th grade (not from the priest smarty pantseses) and at that point I don't think the state was mandating it. Transferred to a public school and basically didn't learn anything until my Junior year of High School (I left private school in 6th grade). Knock the old Catholic schools but if I ever decide to poop out some kids (with my recent luck I'll be reproducing asexually) there is a good chance I'll be sending them to one.

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OP I think she raises some good points. I'm not all that impressed with her delivery. Comparing our current education system to prison seems a bit much to me. I think it's a bad analogy and she took it too far. Her argument would be a lot more persuasive if she dropped the analogies and just spoke to the issues within the current system.

A lot of her points weren't really points. They were vague comparisons with easy answers. Take the bells in schools and prisons. They're very effective at alerting a large body of people, not some horrible oppressive pavlovian device. Or the raising hands as conditioning. Can you imagine trying to teach if all the kids were just blurting out whatever came to mind? Yes, children are separated by age. Because the majority learn at about the same rate. Those that need more help or are clearly excelling are put into different groups. This is not analogous to prison gangs. The idea is laughable. That would be like comparing an IT department to the Aryan Nation (OK perhaps that was an apt comparison).

Milgram experiment is a weird one. There are things that bother me about bringing it up in this context. I don't believe that this test has been repeated in a country that employs a different education system. So alluding (not so vaguely) to this as a result of our education system instead of plain old human nature is disingenuous. It was conducted with 40 men, a long time ago (education system has changed since), and I doubt the group was all that diverse. I don't think she can say that 'regardless of age, race, creed or sex'. I don't remember off hand if the group was diverse, but I doubt it, and it failed to account for 1/2 our population. The mallet she had to use to make that square peg fit that round hole must have been heavy.

The prison comparison and the 'oppression' nonsense rankles me. Kids are stupid. Kids need rules. Kids have rules at home. Are you parents out there going to admit that you're raising a brood of little Eichmanns because you don't let your kids drink beer and play chicken with cars? Of course not. They are kids. They don't GET to have free choice and do whatever they want. They have to go to bed at a certain time, eat their vegetables, brush their teeth and if they don't follow the rules they get in trouble. Basically like what happens at school. If you see your kid smack another kid they don't get a freaking trial. They get a timeout.

I agree with her about grades. It seems an archaic way of... uh... grading (the way it's set up anyway). I agree that for the fringes on the bell curve a normal classroom environment is unsuitable (even after you take out the slow ones and the smart ones). I would love to see smaller class sizes. I would love to see schools be able to focus on something other than memorization. Being able to memorize some BS filler that's forgotten a day after the test is NOT learning. I remember having to memorize all the South American countries. I remember two, and that is two too many. I would love to see schools addressing different learning styles. I would love to see the pay for teachers shoot up, so that schools could be more choosy about who they hire. Get rid of the text book teachers, and attract the ones that were otherwise be too smart to become teachers.

Thanks for posting the video OP. Makes me want to do some more thinking about our education system. I do care quite a bit about this topic as I am a High School dropout.

reply to post by jude11


Whoa!!!! That was an eye opener to comparisons I've never made before.

Everything she says is backed up though. How can one argue with anything she said.

I may have to watch it again. She was blowing my mind.

Raising kids, I can see where obedience matters but in school it's excessive for such highly energetic beings.

She's completely right, I believe the worst mistake you can make in regards to educating children is to involve traditional school.

There was a great article written about it in the 60's called "The Student as Nigger" by a proffessor called Jerry Farber. In it he talks about how the relationship between teachers and students in modern education follows the same pattern as the master-slave relationship. He points out how segregationis still in effect between pupils and teachers and that the whole system is set to reward unthinking compliance and punish any free thought.

Most people I meet who've been through the school system suffer hidiously low self confidence, especially when it comes to anything even remotely academic they avoid it like the plague. A generation terrified of learning, knowledge and bettering themselves.

reply to post by jude11


I watched this before, and it's pretty close to the truth! Children and teens are forced to attend, have virtually no rights when there, and are treated very poorly. Even back in the dinosaur days when I was in school, it wasn't great, and a lot has become worse since then. The entire situation is unnatural. Nowhere else in life are people thrown together with massive numbers of people all the same age, and controlled in such a fashion. It's no wonder so many kids have social issues, and so many more act like animals. It's not about real education, either, but about social engineering, and brainwashing. Then add in the hazards. If a school comes under some sort of attack, the place is locked down, and parents can't even get to their children. Schools in the area of one that is attacked can be locked down, too. Any place we go, if a gunman showed up, we could flee, hide, or whatever we felt we needed to to try and stay alive, but the school kids can't. They have to stay put, sitting ducks for target practice. Teachers that abuse and molest kids are often simply relocated, with no police report made. Bullying is at an all-time high, and seems worse the more "anti-bullying" programs they have. We had no such programs when I was in school, and fights weren't common. Physical attacks were even less common. Now, you can see new videos weekly of some school or bus fight, with kids ganging up on other kids, quite brutally. Now, in many schools, the kids can't even get a decent lunch, and some won't allow a lunch from home, either! Schools have been caught spying on students with school-provided laptops. Kids get expelled for using pretend "guns", or even talking about toy ones. The children are being programmed to believe they have no rights, even to self defense, and that the government should control every aspect of their lives. Prisons? Indoctrination centers is more accurate!

ketsuko
*snip*

No, only if your parents are wealthy enough to be able to buy you an education of choice do you have a chance to get those things as a child in America. No public school supplies any of that unless you get very lucky.

Well, that's not entirely accurate. We are far from wealthy, and struggle, but we home school. You simply have to be more creative, and look for good deals on materials. There are many places online where parents can order curriculum materials, from individual books to whole programs, with a wide range of prices. For mine, several of the books will be reused, as well, simply by having the older student answer questions on paper, instead of in the book. Even the most expensive, almost-all-computer programs are only around $350-400 for the year, and those are reusable, as well, for younger children. Private schools might not be an option, but education is. Mine all read well above their level, have a decent understanding of various events, good vocabularies, etc. They also, I have to add, LOVE to read. Books are treasured, and requested as gifts. They can and do talk easily to adults, and know how to behave in public, too. With a lot of parents, they simply don't want to spend the time. I have seen that with people I know, that tried it, and quit, because they wanted to do something else with their time.

w8tn4it
reply to post by jude11

 

I just saw this on yahoo....sports.yahoo.com... I can't believe this, in my state it is against the law to cut hair without a barber's license. What makes it OK for a guidance counselor to do this? I would hogtie him/her and shave their head especially because I was a licensed hair dresser and that was my kid. Damnd Nazi State!

tencap77
reply to post by jude11

 

if public school is a prison, then catholic school is a n. korean prison ! i don't get it ? i got out of 8 yrs of catholic school with 2 concussios and a jaw that doesn't line up quite right anymore (catholic nuns LUV slapping little kids in the face !) tell me, when nuns break 3 fingers on you cousins hand because her skirt is 1/8th of an inch to short, that's how they demonstrate how much jesus luvs kids right? kids these days have it EASY ! NOT !

(not really, none of my grandkids are in school. they are all home schooled ) where they can be protected by the AWESOME FN/FAL !

That would be a guidance counselor and nun that would need medical care, were that one of mine! The way the schools are these days, too often, I would end up in prison if mine were in them.

reply to post by jude11


Amen. This is why I hated school. Now I found out I couldn't mature in thought but was always confined to my way of usefull thinking.