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Evolution and an alien origin of life?

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posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by GargIndia
 

Sorry I don't understand your question.




posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 03:50 PM
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peter vlar
veteranhumanbeing

peter vlarWhy would they be competitions? Humans ARE apes for one thing. For another, they(the other apes) are each adapted to different environments, there was little overlap for most species, especially over the last see real million years. Geographical isolation precludes competition for resources. Ad in case you weren't aware, I Africa people still do hunt, poach and east other apes. And the last nail in your dreamland coffin is that apes have been around for at a east 10 million years with Neanderthal only emerging half a million years ago and AMH approx 200,000 YA so how could apes be derived from human DNA.


You are forgetting the human was seeded in many areas away from each one. Himalayas Mtns; seas to keep those colonies from contaminating another; each experiment run by different demi-gods. So if I understand your premise; apes are our progenitors. If they were on this planet 10 million years ago, (the homoerectus only thre) why is the subspecie STILL HERE? It would have naturally died out. I cannot think of another sub-standard specie that exists along with its betters. Mammal whales and dolphins have dumber cousins they evolved from. If humans evolved from Apes where did the ape evolve from (lemurs) and that took 50 million years?


Peter VlarI guess we're leaving out H. Erectus , Denisovan and Floresiensis. They must murk up the fantasy a little. I could point to "jump starts" in each and every member of our family tree and none is less impressive then the other.
We are the sum of all the best traits of our fore bearers that best adapted us for our current environment.


So you are saying we have all of the best traits of the ape including its tool using skills and gigantic reasoning ability?


VHBThe two species developed separately. How can you say Apes have sentience; they are the leftover trials of laboratory experiments; those that manipulated humanistic forms (that have no idea why they are here; because they are left without intellectual properties of thought). There are only 3 specie on earth that recognise themselves in a mirror, as in having scentience they see themselves represented: the human, the African Grey Parrot and the Dolphin.



peter vlarI see you're not so big on facts, lets start with some basics. Even Wikipedia has a better gasp of the mirror test than you exhibit. ALL great apes recognize themselves in a mirror. This include gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobo, orangutan, and humans. Non apes that you didn't include would be elephants and orcas. It must be part of being a silly human, needing and using facts to form opinions.


No they dont; (Wikipedia is your master?) what they are doing is mimicking mirrored behaviors is all (they do not recognise themselves as a scentient being reflected) dim awarness is all. An elephant would see its reflection as a threat, they really dont see that well (which is why the old adage is true being afraid of mice) just shapes and movement; perhaps with those oversized ears they can 'hear' an awareness, an individual scentience "hey thats me" in a mirror. SPECIE EVOLVES BECAUSE IT WAS NOT SUSTAINABLE IN ITS CURRENT FORM. Your theorum is not correct. Apes shouldnt exist at all. What evidence do you have saying the domestic cat should have a dim cousin; because if true all evolved species should have one (lives in Mom and Dads basement).
edit on 17-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 04:48 PM
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vethumanbeing



You are forgetting the human was seeded in many areas away from each one. Himalayas Mtns; seas to keep those colonies from contaminating another; each experiment run by different demi-gods. So if I understand your premise; apes are our progenitors. If they were on this planet 10 million years ago, (the homoerectus only thre) why is the subspecie STILL HERE? It would have naturally died out. I cannot think of another sub-standard specie that exists along with its betters. Mammal whales and dolphins have dumber cousins they evolved from. If humans evolved from Apes where did the ape evolve from (lemurs) and that took 50 million years?


No, I'm not forgetting that the human was seeded anywhere because it NEVER HAPPENED. Please show me something that supports your supposition which you keep stating as fact. I'm not sure where
You pulled lemurs from but we did not evolve from them. lemurs merely share morphological and behavioral traits with basal primates. Apes along with old world monkeys evolved from prosimians. Also the 10 million year figure was a typo as Gibbons emerged 20 mya and orangutan approx 15. I think your largest error is in assuming older species were dumber or substandard. H. Erectus was better suited for bipedalism than we are. Neanderthal on average had a larger brain. Humans did not evolve from apes we are apes.


No they dont; what they are doing is mimicking mirrored behaviors is all (they do not recognise themselves as that scentient being reflected. An elephant would see its reflection as a threat, they really dont see all that well (which is why the old adadge is true being afraid of mice) just shapes and movement.
edit on 17-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


Have you ever picked up a book and read it? I'm seriously baffled as to where you come up with these bizarre opinions that you posit as facts. You are just wrong, completely wrong about the mirror test and self awareness. Every single animal I listed is documented and Independantly verified by multiple scientists as being self aware. The Elephant does NOT see itself as a threat when looking in a mirror. If it did it would react like other animals that had no self recognition and viewed the image as a threat. That is they would attack the mirror. I really encourage you to look into this a little bit.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 04:57 PM
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peter vlar
vethumanbeing


peter vlarNo, I'm not forgetting that the human was seeded anywhere because it NEVER HAPPENED. Please show me something that supports your supposition which you keep stating as fact. I'm not sure where You pulled lemurs from but we did not evolve from them. lemurs merely share morphological and behavioral traits with basal primates. Apes along with old world monkeys evolved from prosimians. Also the 10 million year figure was a typo as Gibbons emerged 20 mya and orangutan approx 15. I think your largest error is in assuming older species were dumber or substandard. H. Erectus was better suited for bipedalism than we are. Neanderthal on average had a larger brain. Humans did not evolve from apes we are apes.



veteranhumanbeingNo they dont; what they are doing is mimicking mirrored behaviors is all (they do not recognise themselves as that scentient being reflected. An elephant would see its reflection as a threat, they really dont see all that well (which is why the old adadge is true being afraid of mice) just shapes and movement.



Peter VlarHave you ever picked up a book and read it? I'm seriously baffled as to where you come up with these bizarre opinions that you posit as facts. You are just wrong, completely wrong about the mirror test and self awareness. Every single animal I listed is documented and Independantly verified by multiple scientists as being self aware. The Elephant does NOT see itself as a threat when looking in a mirror. If it did it would react like other animals that had no self recognition and viewed the image as a threat. That is they would attack the mirror. I really encourage you to look into this a little bit.


How would an elephant (have scentience OR THE AWARENESS) to know it was actually looking in a mirror; (not something it encounters in its natural habitat) much less recognising its own image/being; "OH THATS ME Dont attack the mirror". Thankyou for your left handed encouragement.
edit on 17-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 

So I'm going to take that as " No, I don't have anything that actually supports any of the personal opinions that I'm stating as fact".
Well done.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 10:41 PM
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"No they dont; what they are doing is mimicking mirrored behaviors is all (they do not recognise themselves as that scentient being reflected. An elephant would see its reflection as a threat, they really dont see all that well (which is why the old adadge is true being afraid of mice) just shapes and movement."

Only humans have certain faculties that animals lack. Human faculties are highly developed as compared to animals.

I am not surprised at this experiment, as the elephant does not recognize itself. The elephant has no means of seeing it's own reflection and recognizing itself.

Any discussion on theory of evolution yields no result. It only fills up pages. There is a quote from 'Veda' - "there is only one way to truth but uncountable ways to the falsehood."

One can tell as many lies as his mind can produce.

Scores of "scientists" are employed by the current political establishment to spin TOE and keep it alive.



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 11:00 PM
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Tearman
reply to post by GargIndia
 

Sorry I don't understand your question.


I asked you about Van Neumann probe. Has any such probe been built yet?

Theoretically such a probe is not possible. Only intelligent entities are soul and God which can manipulate matter.

Soul cannot be put in a machine by humans.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 11:33 AM
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vethumanbeing
There are only 3 specie on earth that recognise themselves in a mirror, as in having scentience they see themselves represented: the human, the African Grey Parrot and the Dolphin.


There are more than three.

Source.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 04:57 PM
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GargIndia


veteranhumanbeing"No they dont; what they are doing is mimicking mirrored behaviors is all (they do not recognise themselves as that scentient being reflected. An elephant would see its reflection as a threat, they really dont see all that well (which is why the old adadge is true being afraid of mice) just shapes and movement."



GargIndia
Only humans have certain faculties that animals lack. Human faculties are highly developed as compared to animals


It seems there is a runaway thoughtform that animals/mammals have (for some reason) HUMANISTIC tendencies (because they are mammals)?. The human is so far in advance.


GargIndia I am surprised at this experiment, as the elephant does not recognize itself. The elephant has no means of seeing it's own reflection and recognizing itself.


YES and how could it even know it was a mirror or its own reflection being shown?! At best, seeing itself in a muddy pond and thinking it was potencially under attack.


GargIndiaAny discussion on theory of evolution yields no result. It only fills up pages. There is a quote from 'Veda' - "there is only one way to truth but uncountable ways to the falsehood."One can tell as many lies as his mind can produce.
Scores of "scientists" are employed by the current political establishment to spin TOE and keep it alive.


I totally agree; there is such a lack of imagination happening in this field. A BLINDING FEAR OF THE TRUTH.
edit on 18-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 05:03 PM
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AugustusMasonicus
veteranhumanbeing

VHBThere are only 3 specie on earth that recognise themselves in a mirror, as in having scentience they see themselves represented: the human, the African Grey Parrot and the Dolphin.



AugustusMasonicus There are more than three.


I see you referenced wikipedia, I refuse to use that resource its the encyclopaedia of brittanica circa 1964. What are they? (clapping here for more information) as I might have an inclination to rebutt.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 08:09 PM
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GargIndia

Tearman
reply to post by GargIndia
 

Sorry I don't understand your question.


I asked you about Van Neumann probe. Has any such probe been built yet?

Not on earth.


Theoretically such a probe is not possible. Only intelligent entities are soul and God which can manipulate matter.

Soul cannot be put in a machine by humans.

I don't believe that for even one second. Not only do I believe machines will be just as much cognisant as humans, but I beliebe they will have the potential to far exceed human abilities.
edit on 18-1-2014 by Tearman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by Tearman
 


That is your belief. Nothing can be done about a 'belief'.

The truth is universal. What is true on earth is true everywhere.



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 10:50 PM
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GargIndia
reply to post by Tearman
 


That is your belief. Nothing can be done about a 'belief'.

Right back at ya.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 03:02 PM
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Tearman
reply to post by GargIndia
 


GargIndiaI asked you about Van Neumann probe. Has any such probe been built yet?



TearmanNot on earth.



GargIndiaTheoretically such a probe is not possible. Only intelligent entities are soul and God which can manipulate matter.
Soul cannot be put in a machine by humans.



TearmanI don't believe that for even one second. Not only do I believe machines will be just as much cognisant as humans, but I beliebe they will have the potential to far exceed human abilities.


They will never have the ability to reproduce on their own.
They have no God/soul aspect (what is the soul comprised of).
They cannot program themselves into being.
Where does the machines sustainable 'lifeforce' come from? a plug in an outlet?
I am of the thought that circuitry can attain a dim awareness, that being said (just a thought here; recent malfunctions of Jetliner autopilots (randomly turning off), cars deciding to accelerate on their own. Its not beyond me to think technology could have some future problems, the better it becomes the likehood of creating a dim-witted Frankenstein that will backfire. Does Big Blue have scentience yet (or been tested for cognition). The only way this theory works is if one thinks we live in a digital universal aspect, describing not only the human as a byproduct; but more obviously the machine as well since we are its creators; and now back to a theory: is God Aspect digital to begin with; and if so we its progeny are recreating machines that could be examples of a rudimentary form expressing God without even knowing it.
edit on 19-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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vethumanbeing


They will never have the ability to reproduce on their own.
They have no God/soul aspect (what is the soul comprised of).


You've said the same about animals as well but they seem to be reproducing just fine on their own. You're just a big bundle of contradiction aren't you?



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 06:43 PM
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peter vlar
veteranhumanbeing


VHBThey will never have the ability to reproduce on their own.
They have no God/soul aspect (what is the soul comprised of).



peter vlarYou've said the same about animals as well but they seem to be reproducing just fine on their own. You're just a big bundle of contradiction aren't you?


Not at all; what I said was the evolution process is to effectively replace a non respondent specie (to that environment). It mutates to further itself. The remnants of no longer exist as FAILED (unless living in moms basement as a SUBSET or hanger-on wastrale).There is no reason for the ape to exist AT ALL if the human superseeded it as its of a higher evolutionary form (is that not the point). Tell me of one subset specie of another more evolved that exists today. Do not include the domesticated cat or dog because that is a no brainer; pets you see.
edit on 19-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


Not at all; what I said was the evolution process is to effectively replace a non respondent specie (to that environment). It mutates to further itself. The remnants of no longer exist as FAILED (unless living in moms basement as a SUBSET or hanger-on wastrale).There is no reason for the ape to exist AT ALL if the human superseeded it as its of a higher evolutionary form (is that not the point). Tell me of one subset specie of another more evolved that exists today. Do not include the domesticated cat or dog because that is a no brainer; pets you see.

Reproductive isolation. You seem to be missing the fact that saying, "Species A 'superseeded' species B and therefore species B should no longer exist," is meaningless until you define the geographic environment in which those two species were competing. If all members of species A and species B were occupying the same niche in the same geographic environment, then you'd be correct. But we know this isn't even remotely the case. Learn more about what you're arguing against.
edit on 19/1/2014 by iterationzero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


So it would seem that science is moving to creationism by an Alien . Has that not been the message of the Bible all of this time ? God is not a terrestrial being .



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 07:27 PM
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vethumanbeingequote]

Not at all; what I said was the evolution process is to effectively replace a non respondent specie (to that environment). It mutates to further itself. The remnants of no longer exist as FAILED (unless living in moms basement as a SUBSET or hanger-on wastrale).There is no reason for the ape to exist AT ALL if the human superseeded it as its of a higher evolutionary form (is that not the point). Tell me of one subset specie of another more evolved that exists today. Do not include the domesticated cat or dog because that is a no brainer; pets you see.
edit on 19-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


Ill be happy to answer that but we need to clarify a few things first.
What do you consider an ape?
What is your determinant regarding what is or is not more evolved?
What do you think a subset species is?

And please, just answer these questions and skip the riddles. I'm just not in the
Mood to play 'Bilbo and Golem'



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 07:58 PM
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iterationzero
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing
 


Not at all; what I said was the evolution process is to effectively replace a non respondent specie (to that environment). It mutates to further itself. The remnants of no longer exist as FAILED (unless living in moms basement as a SUBSET or hanger-on wastrale).There is no reason for the ape to exist AT ALL if the human superseeded it as its of a higher evolutionary form (is that not the point). Tell me of one subset specie of another more evolved that exists today. Do not include the domesticated cat or dog because that is a no brainer; pets you see.



IterationzeroReproductive isolation. You seem to be missing the fact that saying, "Species A 'superseeded' species B and therefore species B should no longer exist," is meaningless until you define the geographic environment in which those two species were competing. If all members of species A and species B were occupying the same niche in the same geographic environment, then you'd be correct. But we know this isn't even remotely the case. Learn more about what youd be arguing against.
.

Ive already expressed the demographics of human specie evolvement; different areas ISOLATED from one another (ON PURPOSE) to separate contamination or the murder of specie by specie (famous untruism Neaderthal vs CroMagnum).



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