Ancient Peru. The Enigma...

reply to post by reject

"normal in all other ways" does not equate to "improved" anything.

Show me where it says some macrocephalic humans are an "improvement" or have an "advantage."

Why should I do that? I never said that there was any improvement or advantage.

While it doesn't always result in improved brain capacity,sometimes it does.

This is what I said and I have already proved this and supplied you with the links.Don't try to put words in my mouth. If you desire your stated proof do your own research.

reply to post by Rosinitiate


Excellent reply.

I agree completely. A star for you.

lonegurkha
reply to post by reject

 

"normal in all other ways" does not equate to "improved" anything.

Show me where it says some macrocephalic humans are an "improvement" or have an "advantage."

Why should I do that? I never said that there was any improvement or advantage.

what did you mean by this then:

lonegurkha
What if this syndrome causes those afflicted, to have a different way of looking at the world. Akhenaten certianly did and he caused great change during his reign.

Now that said, if this syndrome produced a great leader in Peru and in other cultures, could it be the source of the tradition of binding of the skull. After all we do know that humans enjoy emulating great leaders.

lonegurkha
reply to post by reject

 

While it doesn't always result in improved brain capacity,sometimes it does.

This is what I said and I have already proved this and supplied you with the links.Don't try to put words in my mouth. If you desire your stated proof do your own research.

How did you do that?

You know you meant intelligence.

You did not prove that.

The burden of proof is on someone who makes a claim.

Far be it from me to put anything in your mouth

reject

lonegurkha
reply to post by reject

 

"normal in all other ways" does not equate to "improved" anything.

Show me where it says some macrocephalic humans are an "improvement" or have an "advantage."

Why should I do that? I never said that there was any improvement or advantage.

what did you mean by this then:

lonegurkha
What if this syndrome causes those afflicted, to have a different way of looking at the world. Akhenaten certianly did and he caused great change during his reign.

Now that said, if this syndrome produced a great leader in Peru and in other cultures, could it be the source of the tradition of binding of the skull. After all we do know that humans enjoy emulating great leaders.

lonegurkha
reply to post by reject

 

While it doesn't always result in improved brain capacity,sometimes it does.

This is what I said and I have already proved this and supplied you with the links.Don't try to put words in my mouth. If you desire your stated proof do your own research.

How did you do that?

You know you meant intelligence.

You did not prove that.

The burden of proof is on someone who makes a claim.

Far be it from me to put anything in your mouth

edit on 18-1-2014 by reject because: (no reason given)

Brain capacity and intelligence are two different things.What I said was a speculation about that increased capacity.You do know what a speculation is right? I know no such thing as far as the intelligence thing. I meant no such thing.That was an assumption on your part.An unfounded assumption at that.

I didn't "prove it " cause I didn't say it. What I said was a speculation based on the increased brain capacity. There is no reason to prove a speculation. A measuring cup has capacity.It's a measure of volume and not a measure of intelligence.

You are the one claiming that I meant intelligence when I most certianly did not. So since it was you who said it. Prove it.

lonegurkha

reject

lonegurkha
reply to post by reject

 

"normal in all other ways" does not equate to "improved" anything.

Show me where it says some macrocephalic humans are an "improvement" or have an "advantage."

Why should I do that? I never said that there was any improvement or advantage.

what did you mean by this then:

lonegurkha
What if this syndrome causes those afflicted, to have a different way of looking at the world. Akhenaten certianly did and he caused great change during his reign.

Now that said, if this syndrome produced a great leader in Peru and in other cultures, could it be the source of the tradition of binding of the skull. After all we do know that humans enjoy emulating great leaders.

lonegurkha
reply to post by reject

 

While it doesn't always result in improved brain capacity,sometimes it does.

This is what I said and I have already proved this and supplied you with the links.Don't try to put words in my mouth. If you desire your stated proof do your own research.

How did you do that?

You know you meant intelligence.

You did not prove that.

The burden of proof is on someone who makes a claim.

Far be it from me to put anything in your mouth

edit on 18-1-2014 by reject because: (no reason given)

Brain capacity and intelligence are two different things.What I said was a speculation about that increased capacity.You do know what a speculation is right? I know no such thing as far as the intelligence thing. I meant no such thing.That was an assumption on your part.An unfounded assumption at that.

I didn't "prove it " cause I didn't say it. What I said was a speculation based on the increased brain capacity. There is no reason to prove a speculation. A measuring cup has capacity.It's a measure of volume and not a measure of intelligence.

You are the one claiming that I meant intelligence when I most certianly did not. So since it was you who said it. Prove it.

if you did not mean intelligence, care to explain how they might become "great leaders" humans enjoy emulating like you said?

reply to post by reject

if you did not mean intelligence, care to explain how they might become "great leaders" humans enjoy emulating like you said?

No as a matter of fact I wouldn't.
What I would like, is for you to read the first post I wrote from beginning to end and let's see if you can answer your own question.

Try to understand what I wrote, and why it was written the way it was written. Let's just see how really smart you are. Cause I want to know.

Keep this subject in mind cause there is more to come. As slayer says stay tuned.

Hi Slayer

Fabulous Post !

There alot I would Like to say ask question to alot of the members here on this thread ...

When i have the time to do ! it tho there alot you already answered one my favorite locational area of subjects

but formost what sticking in my head right now as you mentioned
did the Old world came to the New or the New came to the Old

Well a little off topic in a sense ... as in another thread i had a discussion of mummification
trying to explain to Member HARTE about the Similarity of Egypt and Pre Columbian similarity's and the subject of Mummification till i show him about the chinchorros Culture of Peru about Embalming he more less found out the similarity's of Techniques of Red mummification close to the same way of the Egyptians..

Here what it has said about notices the Bold !

Chinchorro mummies

The Chinchorro mummies are mummified remains of individuals from the South American Chinchorro culture, found in what is now northern Chile and southern Peru. They are the oldest examples of artificially mummified human remains, becoming popular by up to two thousand years before the Egyptian mummies. To put this in perspective, the earliest mummy that has been found in Egypt dated around 3000 BC,[1] while the oldest mummy recovered from the Atacama Desert is dated around 7020 BC.[2] The artificial mummies of Chinchorro are believed to have first appeared around 5000 BC and reaching a peak around 3000 BC. Often Chinchorro mummies were elaborately prepared by removing the internal organs and replacing them with vegetable fibers or animal hair. In some cases an embalmer would remove the skin and flesh from the dead body and replace them with clay. Shell midden and bone chemistry suggest that 90% of their diet was seafood. Many ancient cultures of fisherfolk existed, tucked away in the arid river valleys of the Andes, but the Chinchorro made themselves unique by their dedicated preservation of the dead. Radiocarbon dating reveals that the oldest discovered Chinchorro mummy was that of a child from a site in the Camarones Valley, about 60 miles south of Arica in Chile and dates from around 5050 BC. The mummies continued to be made until about 1800 BC, making them contemporary with Las Vegas culture and Valdivia culture in Ecuador and the Norte Chico civilization in Peru.

Ok Let have this sink in a bit !! 2 millenniums before !!>?

The Red Mummy Technique The red mummy technique (2500 BC to 2000 BC) was a technique in which rather than disassemble the body, many incisions were made in the trunk and shoulders to remove internal organs and dry the body cavity. The head was cut from the body so that the brain could be removed, after which the skin would be pasted back on, which would often just be covered with a clay mask. The body was packed with various materials to return it to somewhat more-normal dimensions, sticks used to strengthen it, and the incisions sewn up using reed cord. The head was placed back on the body, this time with a wig made from tassels of human hair up to 60 cm long. A "hat" made out of black clay held the wig in place. Except for the wig and often the (black) face, everything was then painted with red ochre.[

en.wikipedia.org...

So what gives Here let alone the Similaritys of both Civilizations of Egypt and Pre Columbia

Speaking of Similarities of the OLD n New Worlds Oceans Apart I think this may interest You


How True this Is IDK ( as of yet ) may have to do Lotta research in this one !
Artefacts, Atlantis and the route to the sea
www.atlantisbolivia.org...

Ok back on topic

The The Peruvian Elongated Skulls are Very Unique!! BUT!!! yes there is a But

in the Old World Same thing Found In Russia and France !!

France
Deformed Skull From Dark Ages Unearthed In France
page: 1
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Tho I haven't found a Legit Site just Conspiracy sites ..

The 1,650-year-old skull of aristocrat that was deliberately deformed to show her family's wealth is unearthed in France

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

www.dailymail.co.uk...

French Archaeologists Discover Beautifully Preserved Deformed Skull
io9.com...



Russia
Elongated skulls discovered in Russia, Jan. 2009
page: 1
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Russian Elongated Skulls

Strange elongated skulls found in Russia

Read more at www.liveleak.com...
www.liveleak.com...

Archeologists Discover Strange Elongated Skulls in Russia.






ohh found that Elongated Headed Baby a News Vids



Well ATS IF you want more do some research on youtube of Brian Foerster Videos !

Egypt
Well another is King Tuts Skull Elongated Skull ! and carved Drawing Showing Elongated Skulls





Nefertiti n Akenaten




a little comparison


As i See the Difference of Egypt's Elongated Skull is in the Back of the Head
as Peru's is forehead raised receding to the top big difference strangely a similar Civilization yet Oceans Apart

Quadrivium
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

They found this statue and others in Iraq.
They date 5 to 7 thousand years ago.......supposedly they are "lizard people".
They even have one of a mother (with elongated head) breast feeding a baby.
There are so many close links to the ancient Americans and other civilizations. .....just nothing definitive. ......yet.
Quad

These are the Annunaki of Sumerian (present day Iraq) stories dating at least 7,000 years back?

Best answer to why civilizations across the globe engaged in skull-minding.

reply to post by SLAYER69


one thing right off the top of my head....................lol. I'll guarantee the structures inside the cranial cavity are different from human. head binding can't change that. Has anyone mapped the morphology inside the coneheads?

Fantastice thread, I have shared your thread's URL on this thread about the Hypgeum on malta www.abovetopsecret.com...
I hope you do not mind as it has many similar factors such as the odd skull's.
Thank you for very much for this, this is one of the very best threads I have read on ATS and am truly impressed by the artistic renderings of the ruin's of Tiwanaku.
You have a very good point, there is no reason to deform there heads in such a way unless they were trying to emulate something they idolized, a god or more advanced visitor perhaps.
The cannabalistic primitive jungle tribes whom filed there teeth were idealizing Jaguar or Panther in many places and other jungle predators in other parts of the world, in there primitive societys were a man had no natural defence other than stone tipped spears they idolized these natural killers and in many cases animistic shamanism using hypnotic drug induced trances which actually made them believe they where these animals,.
They were primitive but the elongated skull's all seem to originate in much more advanced seed cultures and city building farming community's, or societies that had in some cases devolved from such but kept there tradition, so were they emulating there teachers, alien missionarys or an older race.
Great thread that asks questions traditionalists like to ignore or explain in implausible ways.

After looking at all the pictures that Slayer posted, I see only head binding as a reason for why. Only because I see the flat pattern stop then the skulls look like the start to continue to form the common round head shape. Imagine squeezing a balloon sideways. It curves at the end. In nature there are all sorts of species with pointed skulls at the end such as a horse’s skull, nothing like the skulls in Peru or any other territory where the elongated human skulls are found.

Yes I know these are human skulls and shouldn’t really be associated with other animals but why not? So far I’m seeing a lot of posts of people relating human skulls and these elongated skulls as alien. Which in my opinion would be a different species.
Now another oddity is why all over the world this was happening. Most say it’s near impossible as these cultures were worlds apart. I think we don’t fully understand how 'close' they were to each other.

On research for another topic, I found a trace of people that vanished in Malta and this group had a sort of skull deformities as you may have found already on ATS – Hypogeum of Ħal-Saflieni history of a non human civilization?
Before they got there, they literally travelled across most of the world before settling in Malta. First come from the Sicani (Ancient Sicily) then from Iberia (East Spain) which than came from Central Europe. What is odd is that the dating of all these places the people traveled in and found evidence of the same culture was 5000BC. Some links below from Wiki showing the migration. Sorry it explains on the begining of each link.
Wiki Malta
Wiki Sicani..
Wiki Iberia...

Fair enough current dating tools can be sketchy at times and obviously it’s not like they did all this in one year or a few hundred but it’s nowhere near the idea that distance made an obstacle for travel and to share/merge cultures after all. If mostly everyone agrees with Evolution or Adam and Eve then we all came from one source? Or at least the same continent. Then its evidence right there that the earth had ‘6 degrees of separation’ So one tribe/culture knows of another tribe up north and that tribe knows another further north and so forth…….of the original tribe that goes ‘hey binding is cool’ Some cultures adopt it and some not but the word spread.

One thing historians I feel keep forgetting, word of mouth. Just like the knowledge but language makes this possible.
Sorry to explain, Tribes A. B. C. and D.
– A knows A and B language.
– B Knows A, B and parts of C language.
- C knows C and B language
and last D knows the same as C in terms of language. e.g. two cultures speaking the same language such as USA and England Today

Most of the world’s countries still have this today where being close means the people adopt several languages or a mixture of all languages. I know this from Maltese – I can be understood In Arabic as much as Italian using Maltese words.

Sorry for the long post but wanted to explain my point of view that, how I see the elongated heads is that it is human, by human design and introduced by word of the human mouth from one place to another. Dont get me wrong I do believe Aliens visited earth before and possibly currently but with this case I cannot see any reference. Still open to being able to open my eyes

reply to post by Maltese5Rhino


About the same period that Ancient Egyptian High civilisation is traditionally accepted to have began, 5000BC but what Slayer is saying is not that these were natural but that these people were emulating something/one/being'(s) and that would not in any way clash with your wonderful research, the question is though (and without proper DNA analysis we may never know) to what degree where these natural skull differences a result of deviation from mainstream human chromosone patterns and were they as you probably rightly point out another species, weather they were non human however is matter of some contention as the neanderthal were human, just a different sub-species and so are all the various racial groups alive today, could these people indeed have been a seed population or even truly non human in origin, it is a hotly disputed matter but there is a famous find I am sure you are aware of called the star child skull, many commentors claim it is because of hydrocephalous but the study of the bone compositions and claimed genetic analysis as well as being radically different from humans could only be related to any part of our evolutionary tree if they came from a branch that predated the supposed mass species formation called the cambrien explosions as only the endrons are in any way similar though many genes can be indentified and for instance the type of cartilaginous material in the eyes is unlike anything alive or known of today and yet it is estimated at only 900 years old so perhaps other races evolved on earth and got themselves off it in order to ensure there own survival, perhaps they tinker with life here from time to time and perhaps we are merely a hybrid or engineered life from that is one that survived, if the white apes are real maybe they were another slave race bred to live in subterranean mines (though I am getting into sitchins territory there so expect egg on my face).

You see for me the right questions are not being asked. Why would they do this? Were they trying to emulate something or someone they once knew/venerated and tried to copy the appearance? I'm not saying they tried to copy 'Aliens' although I'll remain open to that possibility, Was there once a great leader who simply had some sort of physical abnormality that the masses attempted to copy? Seems possible. Or, were they again, simply trying to replicate an appearance of possibly some other race of ancient hominids that preceded them in the New world? Which may have either died off or simply interbred with Homo Sapien Sapien and their appearances aggregated down...?

Why would they do this? Good question.
May I ask on a similar premise as to why the Karen women of Burma wear neck rings to elongate their necks?
head binding and elongating necks with neck rings both are painful processes.

Maybe be that was their idea of prime beauty or looking good?

reply to post by SLAYER69


nice topic
sorry, a bit late to join the party

i like the answer to be 'alien'
it's more fun that way

you know when i read your post, i suddenly wonder if homer simpson also has an elongated skull.

peace

as a interesting Note as putting more fuel to the fire ...

as Elongated Skull were found with the similarity of the Peruvian/Bolivia Skulls

Were claimed to be found in Russia France Africa( High Forehead recede ) Egypt ( Elongated back of the Head ) and I think also in India as in the same form like Skulls

Most of of these Skull Found were near or Close to High Advanced Civilizations with Similar Culture

I just wanted to Add this Pic

The Similarity's of Mexico Egypt Indonesia



The step Pyramid The Entrance of the Pyramids The Archway Entrance and Mummies

This is really interesting stuff, star and flag, while looking for more info on this I came across this site.
hiddenincatours.com...

Talking about head binding they were saying that you are able to change the shape of the skull but not the volume and that Tello found several skulls "90 at the site called Cerro Colorado adjacent to the main graveyard in Paracas", that had cranial volume larger, and in some cases 2.5 times larger than a conventional modern human skull. Sorry if this has already been posted.

Gildenel
This is really interesting stuff, star and flag, while looking for more info on this I came across this site.
hiddenincatours.com...

Talking about head binding they were saying that you are able to change the shape of the skull but not the volume and that Tello found several skulls "90 at the site called Cerro Colorado adjacent to the main graveyard in Paracas", that had cranial volume larger, and in some cases 2.5 times larger than a conventional modern human skull. Sorry if this has already been posted.

Those much larger cranium's are explained in more detail in this so that is indeed accurate but take this video for what it is, the same evidence being used to support an alternative theory now weather correct or not a matter of opinion,
www.youtube.com...

Gildenel
This is really interesting stuff, star and flag, while looking for more info on this I came across this site.
hiddenincatours.com...

Talking about head binding they were saying that you are able to change the shape of the skull but not the volume and that Tello found several skulls "90 at the site called Cerro Colorado adjacent to the main graveyard in Paracas", that had cranial volume larger, and in some cases 2.5 times larger than a conventional modern human skull. Sorry if this has already been posted.

I'm a little suspicious of the claims of cranial volume of up to 2.5 times the average for modern humans. There is no mention of endocranial casting or links to supporting data to back up the assertions. I won't rule it out entirely without seeing the supporting evidence but the lack thereof leaves me a little wanting. I'm also curious why they would send hair and bone samples to Lloyd Pye and not to an independent lab. It almost seems as though they are trying to coroborate a preconceived notion. Good science would have been to send samples to several independent laboratories to see if there was a baseline comparison when looked at by different labs. Just my 2 cents.

reply to post by peter vlar


I personally do not know about 2.5 time's bigger but know that ancient skull's with larger brains than modern human's have been found, mostly they were categorised as hydrocephalus as to suspect that there may have been a race with a bigger brain than today went very strongly against the percieve scientific notion's of the day and where resputation and funding are concerned and the proof may be shaky very few people will go that far out on a limb.
Remember how scientific bias was used during the slave trade and how it was extremely popular to categorise other human beings as an inferior race to justify there use as forced labour, then again prior and during the second world war when the Nazi elite tried to prove a mythical master race (as you know germany is a cross road's and the german people are a mongral race with everything from hun's of asia and celt's of the south, norse of the north and slavic of the east mixed into them but no the nazi had to be pure).
The problem would be if we stumbled on a race who both thought differently and had bigger brains we would have to accept there mental structure may be different, now there are several races that share our world today that have larger brain's than us, the cetacean's but of course they are not tool users and there brains are specialised for decoding there hydrosonic adaptions indeed the part relative to the part in our brain that deals with speech is far larger in these species.
Though you won't see them as prime examples there were supposedly late 40000 BC neanderthal skull's found with craniel capacity more or less equalling our own at about 1800 Cubic centre litres where modern man ranges from as low as about 850 to about 2400 cubic centilitres and einsteins brain is regarded as the larges (NON ABNORMAL) brain on record, he never donated his brain it was actually stoled after his death.

Headsup

Intriguing and controversial related thread update.

ATS member skuly has posted an interesting thread on a related topic.

Enjoy

DNA analysis of Paracas skulls found to be human-like creature.