Fukushima radiation… what you need to know and why

reply to post by RickinVa


You do realize they were exposed to a ton of radioactive material at once right? That's not what is happening in the pacific ocean at Fuku right now. Quit obfuscating the subject.

raymundoko
reply to post by RickinVa

 

Is an atom of radiation dangerous? No. It's obvious the only reason you want to avoid the word dilute is because it indicates that the radiation is currently being dispersed to non toxic levels.

Thank you for proving my point,,,, it is dispersed in the ocean.,.. but it is not diluted.

reply to post by RickinVa


Oh. My. God...


The issue here is you don't know what dilution means. Dilution has nothing to do with destroying an atom.

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr
reply to post by RickinVa

 

People especially in the states just automatically assume all radiation is lethal not realizing their around it every day. Salt is radioactive the water we drink the dust you breath. Also not to mention all the radiation the sun throws at us every day what's important is the intensity of the exposure. The plant is releasing beta particles minimal danger unless you put a couple of pounds of the stuff under your bed. You can buy uranium it releases beta particles and you can hold it in your hand with no ill effects. The only danger was the initial exposure because those were not beta particles. However by this point the reactor is shut down no new radiation is being created all we have now is radiation breaking down as it expends its energy. When beta particles break down it will no longer be any danger.

"When beta particles break down it will no longer be any danger" thats true... see you in a 10,000 years when unfortunately some of it will still be around.

If you please scroll back a page or two, you will find that I did talk about natural background radiation.

"The plant is releasing beta particles minimal danger unless you put a couple of pounds of the stuff under your bed" Internal vs external dose....you can't really compare the two. 1 gram of cesium 137 under your bed is completely different than 1 gram of cesium in your body, for example. I, myself, would rather prefer not to be around either.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

This is in a test tube and its not millions of years beta particles like cesium 137 start decaying immediately thats the radiation. Its half life is about 30 yrs if i remember correctly have a chart in my lab. Any way we are talking about ingesting cesium that is entirely different it will be gone from a human in one to four months. and if you know youve been exposed can take prussian blue and its gone in a couple of weeks. again you would have to eat a couple of ounces to do any damage to you. Because beta particles are such a slow radiation release rate. Your promoting doom porn nothing more look as many scientists there are on the planet do you see them running around in panic. Look if there was a serious threat to anyone other than the Japanese i would have already been screaming from the roof tops.

Because of the explosion higher concentrations were released at first meaning people near the plant has increased there risk somewhere between 1 to 4 percent depending on exposure. To set your mind at ease this is exactly the same risk apollo astronauts had and not one of them developed cancer.

again you would have to eat a couple of ounces to do any damage to you...... that sums up your feelings pretty good... you go right ahead and eat those couple of ounces of cesium.... I will pass

and since posting facts is doom porn,,, well I just don't know what to say to that so I won't bother to reply.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

You know so little about radiation now you've gone to just making silly statements. Its not recommended for anyone to eat a couple of ounces of cesium though you could and live.You are intaking cesium every day of your life since you've been born are systems metabolizes most beta particles and removes them. This had to be part of our biology since there isnt anywhere on the planet were not exposed to radiation. If you like salt in your food guess what its radioactive so is many things we eat. The quantity is so small that it doesnt affect us and our bodies remove it from our systems. If you really were concerned you would take the time to learn about radiation and its affects on the human body. But your not you just want to scare people.

If anyone on here wants to see some actually biological reports we use for cancer patients i can email them from work they receive much stronger doses then were talking about here.

Do you have any idea of how many people died or were made seriously ill from a few ounces of Cesium in South America a few years back? There's no way you can claim that it is safe.

Attack the ball not the player.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

Really there was a cesium release in south america and when did this occur and please post the study so i can review it. Did the people ingest it and were they treated for it? How much was ingested and what was the time period of the exposure i can even draw you up a chart plotting there cancer risks but i need the study or is this internet rumors again?

4 dead and 20 suffer radiation sickness 3.3 ounces of cesium chloride.

en.wikipedia.org...

Facts my friend.... facts

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

So the exposure was a concentration of cesium used to treat cancer patients it wasnt an accident.This was someone playing with medical equipment. And thought the blue glowing powder was neat. Now you do realize that in medical equipment cesium is bombarded with gamma particles first to intensify the radiation output for cancer treatment. This wasnt your normal cesium big clue is it was glowing.Cesium chloride is a white powder and doesnt glow at all but it is a great way to store gama particles from a breeder reactor.Next this was them putting it directly on their skin cesium chloride would be absorbed through the skin and start attacking the kidneys. Again this wasnt what was released from japans accident. Treatment was simple the 3 who died most likely had an exposure time of about a week in high concentrations. If they wouldn't have ignored the symptoms they would have been fine. So please explain how medical equipment and cesium 137 are the same seeing as this wasn't cesium 137 like you made everyone assume?

PS what you see as harsh im just tired of the doom people out here scaring everyone when they have no clue of what they speak unfortunately people reading it dont know that.

raymundoko
reply to post by RickinVa

 

You do realize they were exposed to a ton of radioactive material at once right? That's not what is happening in the pacific ocean at Fuku right now. Quit obfuscating the subject.

I was only commenting on the posters comment that radiation is not dangerous... I am not trying to obfuscate the subject of the radiation at Fukushima.... I never brought up Brazil until I was forced too, because you are correct... those people received a large dose of radiation.

AGAIN:

Answer 2 questions.

1. What is radiation? Its an unstable atom.
2. Can you dilute an atom with water? NO

Prove that either one of those statement is false.... I will be waiting

raymundoko
reply to post by RickinVa

 

Oh. My. God...


The issue here is you don't know what dilution means. Dilution has nothing to do with destroying an atom.

AGAIN:

Answer 2 questions.

1. What is radiation? Its an unstable atom.
2. Can you dilute an atom with water? NO

Prove that either one of those statement is false.... I will be waiting

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr
reply to post by RickinVa

 

People especially in the states just automatically assume all radiation is lethal not realizing their around it every day. Salt is radioactive the water we drink the dust you breath. Also not to mention all the radiation the sun throws at us every day what's important is the intensity of the exposure. The plant is releasing beta particles minimal danger unless you put a couple of pounds of the stuff under your bed. You can buy uranium it releases beta particles and you can hold it in your hand with no ill effects. The only danger was the initial exposure because those were not beta particles. However by this point the reactor is shut down no new radiation is being created all we have now is radiation breaking down as it expends its energy. When beta particles break down it will no longer be any danger.

"When beta particles break down it will no longer be any danger" thats true... see you in a 10,000 years when unfortunately some of it will still be around.

If you please scroll back a page or two, you will find that I did talk about natural background radiation.

"The plant is releasing beta particles minimal danger unless you put a couple of pounds of the stuff under your bed" Internal vs external dose....you can't really compare the two. 1 gram of cesium 137 under your bed is completely different than 1 gram of cesium in your body, for example. I, myself, would rather prefer not to be around either.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

This is in a test tube and its not millions of years beta particles like cesium 137 start decaying immediately thats the radiation. Its half life is about 30 yrs if i remember correctly have a chart in my lab. Any way we are talking about ingesting cesium that is entirely different it will be gone from a human in one to four months. and if you know youve been exposed can take prussian blue and its gone in a couple of weeks. again you would have to eat a couple of ounces to do any damage to you. Because beta particles are such a slow radiation release rate. Your promoting doom porn nothing more look as many scientists there are on the planet do you see them running around in panic. Look if there was a serious threat to anyone other than the Japanese i would have already been screaming from the roof tops.

Because of the explosion higher concentrations were released at first meaning people near the plant has increased there risk somewhere between 1 to 4 percent depending on exposure. To set your mind at ease this is exactly the same risk apollo astronauts had and not one of them developed cancer.

again you would have to eat a couple of ounces to do any damage to you...... that sums up your feelings pretty good... you go right ahead and eat those couple of ounces of cesium.... I will pass

and since posting facts is doom porn,,, well I just don't know what to say to that so I won't bother to reply.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

You know so little about radiation now you've gone to just making silly statements. Its not recommended for anyone to eat a couple of ounces of cesium though you could and live.You are intaking cesium every day of your life since you've been born are systems metabolizes most beta particles and removes them. This had to be part of our biology since there isnt anywhere on the planet were not exposed to radiation. If you like salt in your food guess what its radioactive so is many things we eat. The quantity is so small that it doesnt affect us and our bodies remove it from our systems. If you really were concerned you would take the time to learn about radiation and its affects on the human body. But your not you just want to scare people.

If anyone on here wants to see some actually biological reports we use for cancer patients i can email them from work they receive much stronger doses then were talking about here.

Do you have any idea of how many people died or were made seriously ill from a few ounces of Cesium in South America a few years back? There's no way you can claim that it is safe.

Attack the ball not the player.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

Really there was a cesium release in south america and when did this occur and please post the study so i can review it. Did the people ingest it and were they treated for it? How much was ingested and what was the time period of the exposure i can even draw you up a chart plotting there cancer risks but i need the study or is this internet rumors again?

4 dead and 20 suffer radiation sickness 3.3 ounces of cesium chloride.

en.wikipedia.org...

Facts my friend.... facts

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

So the exposure was a concentration of cesium used to treat cancer patients it wasnt an accident.This was someone playing with medical equipment. And thought the blue glowing powder was neat. Now you do realize that in medical equipment cesium is bombarded with gamma particles first to intensify the radiation output for cancer treatment. This wasnt your normal cesium big clue is it was glowing.Cesium chloride is a white powder and doesnt glow at all but it is a great way to store gama particles from a breeder reactor.Next this was them putting it directly on their skin cesium chloride would be absorbed through the skin and start attacking the kidneys. Again this wasnt what was released from japans accident. Treatment was simple the 3 who died most likely had an exposure time of about a week in high concentrations. If they wouldn't have ignored the symptoms they would have been fine. So please explain how medical equipment and cesium 137 are the same seeing as this wasn't cesium 137 like you made everyone assume?

Your trying to seperate apples from oranges and I have to keep repeating FACTS.

Anything that has cesium as a first name is radioactive.

Cesium
Cesium 134
Cesium 137
Cesium Hydrochloride
Cesium Phosphate
etc

Want to keep going?

"are the same seeing as this wasn't cesium 137 like you made everyone assume?'

No sir, you assumed that. I said cesium, I never said cesium 137.

Attack the ball not the player.

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr
reply to post by RickinVa

 

People especially in the states just automatically assume all radiation is lethal not realizing their around it every day. Salt is radioactive the water we drink the dust you breath. Also not to mention all the radiation the sun throws at us every day what's important is the intensity of the exposure. The plant is releasing beta particles minimal danger unless you put a couple of pounds of the stuff under your bed. You can buy uranium it releases beta particles and you can hold it in your hand with no ill effects. The only danger was the initial exposure because those were not beta particles. However by this point the reactor is shut down no new radiation is being created all we have now is radiation breaking down as it expends its energy. When beta particles break down it will no longer be any danger.

"When beta particles break down it will no longer be any danger" thats true... see you in a 10,000 years when unfortunately some of it will still be around.

If you please scroll back a page or two, you will find that I did talk about natural background radiation.

"The plant is releasing beta particles minimal danger unless you put a couple of pounds of the stuff under your bed" Internal vs external dose....you can't really compare the two. 1 gram of cesium 137 under your bed is completely different than 1 gram of cesium in your body, for example. I, myself, would rather prefer not to be around either.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

This is in a test tube and its not millions of years beta particles like cesium 137 start decaying immediately thats the radiation. Its half life is about 30 yrs if i remember correctly have a chart in my lab. Any way we are talking about ingesting cesium that is entirely different it will be gone from a human in one to four months. and if you know youve been exposed can take prussian blue and its gone in a couple of weeks. again you would have to eat a couple of ounces to do any damage to you. Because beta particles are such a slow radiation release rate. Your promoting doom porn nothing more look as many scientists there are on the planet do you see them running around in panic. Look if there was a serious threat to anyone other than the Japanese i would have already been screaming from the roof tops.

Because of the explosion higher concentrations were released at first meaning people near the plant has increased there risk somewhere between 1 to 4 percent depending on exposure. To set your mind at ease this is exactly the same risk apollo astronauts had and not one of them developed cancer.

again you would have to eat a couple of ounces to do any damage to you...... that sums up your feelings pretty good... you go right ahead and eat those couple of ounces of cesium.... I will pass

and since posting facts is doom porn,,, well I just don't know what to say to that so I won't bother to reply.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

You know so little about radiation now you've gone to just making silly statements. Its not recommended for anyone to eat a couple of ounces of cesium though you could and live.You are intaking cesium every day of your life since you've been born are systems metabolizes most beta particles and removes them. This had to be part of our biology since there isnt anywhere on the planet were not exposed to radiation. If you like salt in your food guess what its radioactive so is many things we eat. The quantity is so small that it doesnt affect us and our bodies remove it from our systems. If you really were concerned you would take the time to learn about radiation and its affects on the human body. But your not you just want to scare people.

If anyone on here wants to see some actually biological reports we use for cancer patients i can email them from work they receive much stronger doses then were talking about here.

Do you have any idea of how many people died or were made seriously ill from a few ounces of Cesium in South America a few years back? There's no way you can claim that it is safe.

Attack the ball not the player.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

Really there was a cesium release in south america and when did this occur and please post the study so i can review it. Did the people ingest it and were they treated for it? How much was ingested and what was the time period of the exposure i can even draw you up a chart plotting there cancer risks but i need the study or is this internet rumors again?

4 dead and 20 suffer radiation sickness 3.3 ounces of cesium chloride.

en.wikipedia.org...

Facts my friend.... facts

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

So the exposure was a concentration of cesium used to treat cancer patients it wasnt an accident.This was someone playing with medical equipment. And thought the blue glowing powder was neat. Now you do realize that in medical equipment cesium is bombarded with gamma particles first to intensify the radiation output for cancer treatment. This wasnt your normal cesium big clue is it was glowing.Cesium chloride is a white powder and doesnt glow at all but it is a great way to store gama particles from a breeder reactor.Next this was them putting it directly on their skin cesium chloride would be absorbed through the skin and start attacking the kidneys. Again this wasnt what was released from japans accident. Treatment was simple the 3 who died most likely had an exposure time of about a week in high concentrations. If they wouldn't have ignored the symptoms they would have been fine. So please explain how medical equipment and cesium 137 are the same seeing as this wasn't cesium 137 like you made everyone assume?

Your trying to seperate apples from oranges and I have to keep repeating FACTS.

Anything that has cesium as a first name is radioactive.

Cesium
Cesium 134
Cesium 137
Cesium Hydrochloride
Cesium Phosphate
etc

Want to keep going?

"are the same seeing as this wasn't cesium 137 like you made everyone assume?'

No sir, you assumed that. I said cesium, I never said cesiuum 137.

Attack the ball not the player.

edit on 20-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

Well learn that on the internet because its wrong all sources of cesium are not radioactive.Only the synthetic ones made in a nuclear reactor. Cesium is a naturally occurring mineral with the atomic number 55 in its natural state it is not radioactive and sure we can keep going because apparently you have alot of misconceptions about radiation.

reply to post by RickinVa


I've already proven, with scientific papers, specifically the Salton sea study I posted, that radiation can be diluted. So you really need to quit, it's making it hard to take you seriously about other scientific material.

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr
reply to post by RickinVa

 

People especially in the states just automatically assume all radiation is lethal not realizing their around it every day. Salt is radioactive the water we drink the dust you breath. Also not to mention all the radiation the sun throws at us every day what's important is the intensity of the exposure. The plant is releasing beta particles minimal danger unless you put a couple of pounds of the stuff under your bed. You can buy uranium it releases beta particles and you can hold it in your hand with no ill effects. The only danger was the initial exposure because those were not beta particles. However by this point the reactor is shut down no new radiation is being created all we have now is radiation breaking down as it expends its energy. When beta particles break down it will no longer be any danger.

"When beta particles break down it will no longer be any danger" thats true... see you in a 10,000 years when unfortunately some of it will still be around.

If you please scroll back a page or two, you will find that I did talk about natural background radiation.

"The plant is releasing beta particles minimal danger unless you put a couple of pounds of the stuff under your bed" Internal vs external dose....you can't really compare the two. 1 gram of cesium 137 under your bed is completely different than 1 gram of cesium in your body, for example. I, myself, would rather prefer not to be around either.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

This is in a test tube and its not millions of years beta particles like cesium 137 start decaying immediately thats the radiation. Its half life is about 30 yrs if i remember correctly have a chart in my lab. Any way we are talking about ingesting cesium that is entirely different it will be gone from a human in one to four months. and if you know youve been exposed can take prussian blue and its gone in a couple of weeks. again you would have to eat a couple of ounces to do any damage to you. Because beta particles are such a slow radiation release rate. Your promoting doom porn nothing more look as many scientists there are on the planet do you see them running around in panic. Look if there was a serious threat to anyone other than the Japanese i would have already been screaming from the roof tops.

Because of the explosion higher concentrations were released at first meaning people near the plant has increased there risk somewhere between 1 to 4 percent depending on exposure. To set your mind at ease this is exactly the same risk apollo astronauts had and not one of them developed cancer.

again you would have to eat a couple of ounces to do any damage to you...... that sums up your feelings pretty good... you go right ahead and eat those couple of ounces of cesium.... I will pass

and since posting facts is doom porn,,, well I just don't know what to say to that so I won't bother to reply.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

You know so little about radiation now you've gone to just making silly statements. Its not recommended for anyone to eat a couple of ounces of cesium though you could and live.You are intaking cesium every day of your life since you've been born are systems metabolizes most beta particles and removes them. This had to be part of our biology since there isnt anywhere on the planet were not exposed to radiation. If you like salt in your food guess what its radioactive so is many things we eat. The quantity is so small that it doesnt affect us and our bodies remove it from our systems. If you really were concerned you would take the time to learn about radiation and its affects on the human body. But your not you just want to scare people.

If anyone on here wants to see some actually biological reports we use for cancer patients i can email them from work they receive much stronger doses then were talking about here.

Do you have any idea of how many people died or were made seriously ill from a few ounces of Cesium in South America a few years back? There's no way you can claim that it is safe.

Attack the ball not the player.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

Really there was a cesium release in south america and when did this occur and please post the study so i can review it. Did the people ingest it and were they treated for it? How much was ingested and what was the time period of the exposure i can even draw you up a chart plotting there cancer risks but i need the study or is this internet rumors again?

4 dead and 20 suffer radiation sickness 3.3 ounces of cesium chloride.

en.wikipedia.org...

Facts my friend.... facts

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

So the exposure was a concentration of cesium used to treat cancer patients it wasnt an accident.This was someone playing with medical equipment. And thought the blue glowing powder was neat. Now you do realize that in medical equipment cesium is bombarded with gamma particles first to intensify the radiation output for cancer treatment. This wasnt your normal cesium big clue is it was glowing.Cesium chloride is a white powder and doesnt glow at all but it is a great way to store gama particles from a breeder reactor.Next this was them putting it directly on their skin cesium chloride would be absorbed through the skin and start attacking the kidneys. Again this wasnt what was released from japans accident. Treatment was simple the 3 who died most likely had an exposure time of about a week in high concentrations. If they wouldn't have ignored the symptoms they would have been fine. So please explain how medical equipment and cesium 137 are the same seeing as this wasn't cesium 137 like you made everyone assume?

Your trying to seperate apples from oranges and I have to keep repeating FACTS.

Anything that has cesium as a first name is radioactive.

Cesium
Cesium 134
Cesium 137
Cesium Hydrochloride
Cesium Phosphate
etc

Want to keep going?

"are the same seeing as this wasn't cesium 137 like you made everyone assume?'

No sir, you assumed that. I said cesium, I never said cesiuum 137.

Attack the ball not the player.

edit on 20-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

Well learn that on the internet because its wrong all sources of cesium are not radioactive.Only the synthetic ones made in a nuclear reactor. Cesium is a naturally occurring mineral with the atomic number 55 in its natural state it is not radioactive and sure we can keep going because apparently you have alot of misconceptions about radiation.

I actually realized that after I had hit enter and it was too late, I won't edit it after the fact because that would look suspicious and I have no problem admitting that you are correct on your point.

I do not fear monger, I simply try to state the facts as I know them to be.

Radiation does not dilute:

1. Radionuclides are unstable atoms.
2. Atoms cannot be diluted by water.


I am still waiting for someone to prove either of those statements are false.


If you want to going back over all the stuff about radiation I have typed, we can, But I am actually glad you caught my error.I am happy you caught my error. Catch another one!

As far as radiation goes,,, keep talking.

raymundoko
reply to post by RickinVa

 

I've already proven, with scientific papers, specifically the Salton sea study I posted, that radiation can be diluted. So you really need to quit, it's making it hard to take you seriously about other scientific material.

Well of course it can 1 curie in a in an ounce of water is a lot more radioactive than the entire ocean. Radiation levels are also measured by volume as well.

8675309jenny

Bedlam

RickinVa

1. What is radiation? Its an unstable atom.
2. Can you dilute an atom with water? NO

That argument really doesn't make any sense. You can't dilute a single atom of anything in that sense. However, there is a big difference between 12 molar hydrochloric acid and .00000000001 molar hydrochloric acid. That difference is dilution. I can't dilute a single proton. But I can dilute a solution of many.

Similarly, a solution with 1e9 Becquerels per liter is a lot more radioactive than one with 1 Becquerel per liter.

The point is if there are 5 radioactive atoms of strontium or cesium, whether they are sitting in a shotglass on my coffee table, or whether they are are dispersed in a 500gallon fish tank on my wall, they are still HERE, emitting the EXACT SAME number of electrons (radiation). The amount of water sitting next to an atom as it fires an electron at me makes no damn difference when the electrons hit me.

However, it will make a difference if it's five or a few million. Thus the concentration is important.

RickinVa

Bedlam

RickinVa

1. What is radiation? Its an unstable atom.
2. Can you dilute an atom with water? NO-

That argument really doesn't make any sense. You can't dilute a single atom of anything in that sense. However, there is a big difference between 12 molar hydrochloric acid and .00000000001 molar hydrochloric acid. That difference is dilution. I can't dilute a single proton. But I can dilute a solution of many.

Similarly, a solution with 1e9 Becquerels per liter is a lot more radioactive than one with 1 Becquerel per liter.

The difference is due to dissipation not dilution. You cannot dilute a radionucleide.

You can say "The radiation from Fukushima will be less concentrated because of the Pacific Ocean"... that's a true statement. But you can't dilute it.

You can dilute the concentration of a solution containing radionucleides just as you dilute any other solution - you just add more solvent. That doesn't make the solute go away, and I don't think anyone is claiming that.

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr

RickinVa

dragonridr
reply to post by RickinVa

 

People especially in the states just automatically assume all radiation is lethal not realizing their around it every day. Salt is radioactive the water we drink the dust you breath. Also not to mention all the radiation the sun throws at us every day what's important is the intensity of the exposure. The plant is releasing beta particles minimal danger unless you put a couple of pounds of the stuff under your bed. You can buy uranium it releases beta particles and you can hold it in your hand with no ill effects. The only danger was the initial exposure because those were not beta particles. However by this point the reactor is shut down no new radiation is being created all we have now is radiation breaking down as it expends its energy. When beta particles break down it will no longer be any danger.

"When beta particles break down it will no longer be any danger" thats true... see you in a 10,000 years when unfortunately some of it will still be around.

If you please scroll back a page or two, you will find that I did talk about natural background radiation.

"The plant is releasing beta particles minimal danger unless you put a couple of pounds of the stuff under your bed" Internal vs external dose....you can't really compare the two. 1 gram of cesium 137 under your bed is completely different than 1 gram of cesium in your body, for example. I, myself, would rather prefer not to be around either.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

This is in a test tube and its not millions of years beta particles like cesium 137 start decaying immediately thats the radiation. Its half life is about 30 yrs if i remember correctly have a chart in my lab. Any way we are talking about ingesting cesium that is entirely different it will be gone from a human in one to four months. and if you know youve been exposed can take prussian blue and its gone in a couple of weeks. again you would have to eat a couple of ounces to do any damage to you. Because beta particles are such a slow radiation release rate. Your promoting doom porn nothing more look as many scientists there are on the planet do you see them running around in panic. Look if there was a serious threat to anyone other than the Japanese i would have already been screaming from the roof tops.

Because of the explosion higher concentrations were released at first meaning people near the plant has increased there risk somewhere between 1 to 4 percent depending on exposure. To set your mind at ease this is exactly the same risk apollo astronauts had and not one of them developed cancer.

again you would have to eat a couple of ounces to do any damage to you...... that sums up your feelings pretty good... you go right ahead and eat those couple of ounces of cesium.... I will pass

and since posting facts is doom porn,,, well I just don't know what to say to that so I won't bother to reply.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

You know so little about radiation now you've gone to just making silly statements. Its not recommended for anyone to eat a couple of ounces of cesium though you could and live.You are intaking cesium every day of your life since you've been born are systems metabolizes most beta particles and removes them. This had to be part of our biology since there isnt anywhere on the planet were not exposed to radiation. If you like salt in your food guess what its radioactive so is many things we eat. The quantity is so small that it doesnt affect us and our bodies remove it from our systems. If you really were concerned you would take the time to learn about radiation and its affects on the human body. But your not you just want to scare people.

If anyone on here wants to see some actually biological reports we use for cancer patients i can email them from work they receive much stronger doses then were talking about here.

Do you have any idea of how many people died or were made seriously ill from a few ounces of Cesium in South America a few years back? There's no way you can claim that it is safe.

Attack the ball not the player.

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

Really there was a cesium release in south america and when did this occur and please post the study so i can review it. Did the people ingest it and were they treated for it? How much was ingested and what was the time period of the exposure i can even draw you up a chart plotting there cancer risks but i need the study or is this internet rumors again?

4 dead and 20 suffer radiation sickness 3.3 ounces of cesium chloride.

en.wikipedia.org...

Facts my friend.... facts

edit on 19-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

So the exposure was a concentration of cesium used to treat cancer patients it wasnt an accident.This was someone playing with medical equipment. And thought the blue glowing powder was neat. Now you do realize that in medical equipment cesium is bombarded with gamma particles first to intensify the radiation output for cancer treatment. This wasnt your normal cesium big clue is it was glowing.Cesium chloride is a white powder and doesnt glow at all but it is a great way to store gama particles from a breeder reactor.Next this was them putting it directly on their skin cesium chloride would be absorbed through the skin and start attacking the kidneys. Again this wasnt what was released from japans accident. Treatment was simple the 3 who died most likely had an exposure time of about a week in high concentrations. If they wouldn't have ignored the symptoms they would have been fine. So please explain how medical equipment and cesium 137 are the same seeing as this wasn't cesium 137 like you made everyone assume?

Your trying to seperate apples from oranges and I have to keep repeating FACTS.

Anything that has cesium as a first name is radioactive.

Cesium
Cesium 134
Cesium 137
Cesium Hydrochloride
Cesium Phosphate
etc

Want to keep going?

"are the same seeing as this wasn't cesium 137 like you made everyone assume?'

No sir, you assumed that. I said cesium, I never said cesiuum 137.

Attack the ball not the player.

edit on 20-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-1-2014 by RickinVa because: (no reason given)

Well learn that on the internet because its wrong all sources of cesium are not radioactive.Only the synthetic ones made in a nuclear reactor. Cesium is a naturally occurring mineral with the atomic number 55 in its natural state it is not radioactive and sure we can keep going because apparently you have alot of misconceptions about radiation.

I actually realized that after I had hit enter and it was too late, I won't edit it after the fact because that would look suspicious and I have no problem admitting that you are correct on your point.

I do not fear monger, I simply try to state the facts as I know them to be.

Radiation does not dilute:

1. Radionuclides are unstable atoms.
2. Atoms cannot be diluted by water.


I am still waiting for someone to prove either of those statements are false.


If you want to going back over all the stuff about radiation I have typed, we can, But I am actually glad you caught my error.I am happy you caught my error. Catch another one!

As far as radiation goes,,, keep talking.

Well it has to do with exposure level let me explain it this way say i have 100 cesium 137 atoms i put them in your bathtub. And you get in your goingit int h to have a couple of those close enough to you and will come in contact with at least say maybe 20. But i put those same 100 particles in the ocean now your chance of exposure is probably a trillionth of a fraction above 0 you would contact them. No one is implying they dissolve well actually cessium 137 does it breaks down but still radioactive. Any way the larger the volume of air or water or whatever we put it in the less likely you are to come in contact with it in large quantities.

Bedlam

8675309jenny

Bedlam

RickinVa

1. What is radiation? Its an unstable atom.
2. Can you dilute an atom with water? NO

That argument really doesn't make any sense. You can't dilute a single atom of anything in that sense. However, there is a big difference between 12 molar hydrochloric acid and .00000000001 molar hydrochloric acid. That difference is dilution. I can't dilute a single proton. But I can dilute a solution of many.

Similarly, a solution with 1e9 Becquerels per liter is a lot more radioactive than one with 1 Becquerel per liter.

The point is if there are 5 radioactive atoms of strontium or cesium, whether they are sitting in a shotglass on my coffee table, or whether they are are dispersed in a 500gallon fish tank on my wall, they are still HERE, emitting the EXACT SAME number of electrons (radiation). The amount of water sitting next to an atom as it fires an electron at me makes no damn difference when the electrons hit me.

However, it will make a difference if it's five or a few million. Thus the concentration is important.

I have no problem with that.

My contention is that radionuclides are not "diluted" by the ocean. They will dissipate proportionately to the amount of seawater. They will dissipate. They will disperse. To levels that should be extremely low the further you get away from Fukushima. But they will not dilute.

If radionuclides could be diluted with water, then that means that the radionuclide loses some of its radioactivity proportional to the amount of water. It would somehow magically cause them to get weaker when that is clearly not the case of what happens.

We are talking atoms.........a radionuclide will exist until it decays....mixing it with water molecules does nothing to change this simple fact.

reply to post by RickinVa


Oh and radiation in water doesn't go as far either like it does in the air. If you shoot radiation into water the water molecules themselves protect you from radiation. Water is an excellent shield for radiation.This goes back to why in a biological unit cessium 137 breaks down alot quicker were mostly water. And when cessium 137 is in water its energy is depleated quicker meaning the ocean will in itself increase the half life to maybe a year.

dragonridr
reply to post by RickinVa

 

Oh and radiation in water doesn't go as far either like it does in the air. If you shoot radiation into water the water molecules themselves protect you from radiation. Water is an excellent shield for radiation.

never said it didn't... just saying you can't dilute radiation.



All we are doing is repeating the same ole stuff over and over......I am going to take a break from this for a while unless any new developments come up.

I still say you can't technically dilute radiation,,,, its a false statement.

reply to post by RickinVa

just saying you can't dilute radiation.

Interesting

Radiation that may seem alarmingly high in water coming from the plant (definition of alarming: reports of more than 7.5 million times the legal limit of radioactivity, at its peak, according to The Telegraph) dissipates to much lower levels as it gets diluted in the massive amount of ocean water it enters.

Because of the vast volume of the Pacific Ocean, radioactive material is rapidly and effectively diluted,

CNN

Radioactivity in the Ocean:
Diluted, But Far from Harmless

Report from Yale

Radioactivity in the Pacific Ocean from the Fukushima nuclear disaster has peaked and will dilute rapidly, according to a study by Germany’s Geomar Helmholtz Centre for Ocean Research.

German Research

It would appear that ALL experts in the field would disagree and that in point of fact

Radiation does dilute

reply to post by RickinVa


I hope you are able to see the differences in both cases:

Theft of the source

On September 13, 1987, the guard in charge of daytime security, Voudireinão da Silva, did not show up to work, using a sick day to attend a cinema screening of Herbie Goes Bananas with his family.[6] That same day, "scavengers" Roberto dos Santos Alves and Wagner Mota Pereira illegally entered the partially demolished facility, found the teletherapy unit – which they thought might have some scrap value – and placed it in a wheelbarrow, taking it to Alves's home,[7] about 0.6 kilometres (0.4 mi) north of the clinic. There, they began dismantling the equipment. That same evening, they both began to vomit. Nevertheless, they continued in their efforts. The following day, Pereira began to experience diarrhea and dizziness and his left hand began to swell. He soon developed a burn on this hand in the same size and shape as the aperture - he eventually had partial amputation of several fingers.[8] On September 15, Pereira visited a local clinic where his symptoms were diagnosed as the result of something he had eaten, and he was told to return home and rest.[1] Alves, however, continued with his efforts to dismantle the equipment, which was now sitting under a mango tree in his back yard. In the course of this effort, he eventually freed the caesium capsule from its protective rotating head. However, his prolonged exposure to the radioactive material led to his right forearm becoming ulcerated, requiring amputation. [9]

The source is partially broken

On September 16, Alves succeeded in puncturing the capsule's aperture window with a screwdriver, allowing him to see a deep blue light coming from the tiny opening he had created.[1] He inserted the screwdriver and successfully scooped out some of the glowing substance. Thinking it was perhaps a type of gunpowder, he tried to light it, but the powder would not ignite. The exact mechanism by which the light was generated was not known at the time the IAEA report was written, though it was thought to be either fluorescence or Cherenkov radiation associated with the absorption of moisture by the source; similar blue light was observed in 1988 at Oak Ridge National Laboratory during the disencapsulation of a 137Cs source.

The source is sold and dismantled

On September 18, Alves sold the items to a nearby scrapyard. A scrapyard employee came to the house, loaded the contents into a wheelbarrow, transported them to the yard, and unloaded them. That night, the owner of the scrapyard, Devair Alves Ferreira, who lived next door, went into the garage and noticed the blue glow from the punctured capsule. Thinking the capsule's contents were either valuable or even supernatural, he immediately brought it into his house. Over the next three days, he invited friends and family to view the strange glowing substance and offered a reward to anyone who could free it from the capsule. He mentioned that he intended to make a ring out of it for his wife. On September 21 at the scrapyard, a friend of Ferreira's (given as EF1 in the IAEA report) succeeded in freeing several rice-sized grains of the glowing material from the capsule using a screwdriver. He shared some of these with his brother, claimed some for himself, and the rest remained in the hands of Devair Alves Ferreira, who readily began to share it with various friends and family members. That same day, his wife, 37-year-old Gabriela Maria Ferreira, began to fall ill. On September 25, 1987, Devair Alves Ferreira sold the scrap metal to a second scrapyard.

Ivo and his daughter

The day before the sale to the second scrapyard, however, on September 24, Ivo, Devair's brother, successfully scraped some additional dust out of the source and took it to his house a short distance away. There he spread some of it on the cement floor. His six-year-old daughter, Leide das Neves Ferreira, later ate a sandwich while sitting on this floor. She was also fascinated by the blue glow of the powder, applying it to her body and showing it off to her mother. Dust from the powder fell on the sandwich she was consuming; she eventually absorbed 1.0 GBq, total dose 6.0 Gy, which is roughly equal to 13 Sv, more than a fatal dose even with treatment.[10]

Wiki Source

"Just the Facts, Mam"

reply to post by RickinVa


I think we're not disagreeing, but from the standpoint of chemistry or physics adding solvent to a solution is called dilution, not dispersal. NO solute "goes away" or is denatured by adding solvent. No one says it does. You can't really talk about concentration at the level of a single molecule.