Pythagoras and the math of everything

Bedlam

Utnapisjtim
This tone is in perfect harmony with the Schumann resonance of 7.83Hz (“the hum of the Earth”).

No, it's not. A harmonic is an even integer multiple of some fundamental frequency. 7.83Hz is not a fundamental of 432Hz.

Yes, I figured that out after a while.

The Schumann resonance isn't a sound. It's not a hum. It's not even a signal. It's the Earth-ionosphere sphere-in-sphere waveguide self resonance frequency. If you have lightning in the right places, you can excite the waveguide, but what you get is a radio wave. Not a sound.

Indeed, figured that out also in the process. Difficult to discern what is good info on this subject, and of course it would also help if I read my sources more carefully. You are right, the Schumann resonance is electromagnetic ELF radiation, and should not be mixed with soundwaves, though they share many characteristics, but seeing the Sun and the Moon being almost exactly the same size in the sky, that they are both round and emmit light-- they are two completely different things all together. Thanks for reminding me

More, the Schumann resonance point is actually badly defined because neither the Earth nor the ionosphere are that spherical, and the ionosphere's height varies constantly. So it's never the same frequency twice, and it's actually several at once. 7.82Hz is a sort of mean.

Indeed. The whole Schumann bollocks has nothing to do with Pythagoras either so it was a blind alley that diverted the thread away from it's stream. Sorry for any inconvenience, and thanks for the heads-up

reply to post by Bedlam


Possibly an even more outrageous side-track, but you seem like a smart guy. Can sound be used to manipulate space-time itself? Is it possible to explain the effects of sound as warping space-time? Or is it only limited to matter and athmosphere?

I kindof see sound as a 'shadow' of electromagnetic radiation. Like the Moon is a 'shadow' of the Sun, or more precisely, how a 2D shadow is a reflection of the higher 3D dimentional complex. CMYK reflects RGB etc. How they share many characteristica, but only on surface level, for they are completely different concepts all of them. Often dualistic in nature, but with no apparent reason. Which gives me the idea of there being some intelligence behind it who loves to play games. That this human experience we all share is some kind of a step system of aquiring knowledge, often with the effect that when reaching a higher level, what you saw is not what you get, only something that looks the same, but is completely different. Just wondering. What would be your take on such an idea. Please be open-minded.

reply to post by crowdedskies


i think it could be along the lines "hmmmmm... finger covers hole entirelly... hole must be good... " it s not rocket science, rather than something deeply inherent in man... none of the ancients was dumb... they were much more intuitive, thus more emotionally intelligent, than any of us

Utnapisjtim

HumAnnunaki

Utnapisjtim

Why do you think 777 is God's number?

Not so sure as I can only find that specific number (777) once
in the bible as the age of how long Lamech lived.

Lol - listened to too many preachers tell tall tales, I suppose

Curiously I wonder if it shows up in the Qu'ran or Kolbrin..?

Must research that

If God is a number, he is 1

haha.. i can't help but agree.. i thought of this when i tried to construct pascal's triangle back then..

1
1 1
1 2 1
1 3 3 1
1 4 6 4 1
. . . . . .

and the trinity belief is also probably reflected in that too because you need three 1s to start the progression.

btw, i'm curious if the myth of pythagoras taking his own life because he can't get his mind over the existence of irrational numbers circle around your group too? it's a joke i remember back in the days my professor shared to us.

tomoe723

Utnapisjtim
If God is a number, he is 1

haha.. i can't help but agree.. i thought of this when i tried to construct pascal's triangle back then..

1
1 1
1 2 1
1 3 3 1
1 4 6 4 1
. . . . . .

1 5 9 8 5 1

What's that for? Could look it up I suppose, but I'm lazy, please explain what a pascal triangle is.

and the trinity belief is also probably reflected in that too because you need three 1s to start the progression.

As far as I'm concerned the Trinity™ is a concept that originated in a forged comma in the First Epistle of John, the Comma Johanneum, which was added to several translations in the 16th century --> en.wikipedia.org...

btw, i'm curious if the myth of pythagoras taking his own life because he can't get his mind over the existence of irrational numbers circle around your group too? it's a joke i remember back in the days my professor shared to us.

If Pythagoras had been found hanging, I bet one would find intricate links to the secret societies and mystery schools he stole the knowledge from and made it available to everyone. He messed with some rather influensial and powerful people, breaking oaths of secrecy and allegience. It might have all the signs of a suicide, but I wouldn't buy it any time. Then again people kill themselves over toothpaste and burnt toast, so who really knows?

Dynamitrios
edit on 15-1-2014 by Dynamitrios because: SATAN AND HITLER TOLD ME TO !!!!!111!!!111!!

OMG! And the avatar!

Playing flute; in a Pythagorean sense-- could be seen as covering up holes left by whistleblowers to figure out the geometry in the spacing of the holes and produce the music in the distance between the spheres.

Utnapisjtim

Dynamitrios
edit on 15-1-2014 by Dynamitrios because: SATAN AND HITLER TOLD ME TO !!!!!111!!!111!!

Playing flute; in a Pythagorean sense-- could be seen as covering up holes left by whistleblowers to figure out the geometry in the spacing of the holes and produce the music in the distance between the spheres.

edit on 15-1-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: changed word

That is a brilliant comment !

Pythagoras

Quotations by Pythagoras




Allegories: riddles for the initiates.

"abstain from beans": Back and white beans were a means used in voting. This is an exhortation to not vote.

"step not over a balance": Be not covetous

"poke not the fire with a sword": do not vex with sharp words a man swollen with anger.

"eat not heart": do not vex yourself with grief. (didn't Loki eat the heart of the slain witch?)

Dynamitrios
reply to post by crowdedskies

 

i think it could be along the lines "hmmmmm... finger covers hole entirelly... hole must be good... " it s not rocket science, rather than something deeply inherent in man... none of the ancients was dumb... they were much more intuitive, thus more emotionally intelligent, than any of us

edit on 15-1-2014 by Dynamitrios because: SATAN AND HITLER TOLD ME TO !!!!!111!!!111!!

I was referring to the comment by the OP that 55,000 years ago the Do Re Mi scale was being used by primitive man. To achieve these notes, the distance between each hole has to be calculated with the reference to the diameter and length of the tube using complex formulas. You will not get the do re mi sound by just putting holes in a pipe.

On a side note. There are very few written accounts of Pythagoras and his followers.

One such account of him is found in Diogenes' "The Lives of the Eminent Philosophers". It's worth a read:

Lives of the Eminent Philosophers Book VIII

Utnapisjtim
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Possibly an even more outrageous side-track, but you seem like a smart guy. Can sound be used to manipulate space-time itself? Is it possible to explain the effects of sound as warping space-time? Or is it only limited to matter and athmosphere?

I really can't see how. Sound seems really dramatic to us because we've got pretty darn good microphones. I've heard it said but haven't tried to calculate it out to verify, that you can just perceive a sound that moves your eardrums less than the diameter of a hydrogen atom. That's down there so low you can almost hear random thermal motion of air. So it doesn't take much to sound really loud. Sound waves don't have a lot of energy, and there's a limit to how much energy air can carry as sound waves before saturating out. You can get enough energy in there to kill you by shaking you until something breaks, but as dramatic as that is, it's not a lot on the scale of things. Sound doesn't warp space or time.

I kindof see sound as a 'shadow' of electromagnetic radiation. Like the Moon is a 'shadow' of the Sun, or more precisely, how a 2D shadow is a reflection of the higher 3D dimentional complex. CMYK reflects RGB etc. How they share many characteristica, but only on surface level, for they are completely different concepts all of them. Often dualistic in nature, but with no apparent reason.

Well, electromagnetic radiation doesn't really share much of anything with sound. Sound is an oscillation carried by a physical medium, generally air, a wave of compression and rarefaction that propagates because gas, liquid and solids have elastic properties. Sound is what's known as a longitudinal wave, any wave that propagates through the bulk of a medium using that medium is going to be longitudinal.

Electromagnetic radiation is a wave of electric and magnetic fields at right angles to each other. It doesn't have a medium that it propagates through like sound does. It creates itself as it travels. EM is a transverse wave when it's propagating in free space.

Not much is the same between them. If you have a sound wave that is of high enough frequency to be classed as a radio wave, it's still sound, not radio. A lot of people think (some here) that sound and radio are just different points on a spectrum, but that's not true. You can have an ultrasonic source that's easily as high frequency as any radio signal, especially in fluid or solid mediums, but it doesn't cross through space like radio, and you can't receive it on a radio.

Conversely, you can make radio waves in the human hearing range, and even if you stand right by the antenna, you won't hear a thing.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


Pascal's triangle is a simple mnemonic device to determine the coefficients of an algebraic binomial expansion. The triangle goes indefinitely downwards. I only wrote up to the 4th power.

For example,

1
1 1
1 2 1
1 3 3 1
1 4 6 4 1
. . . . . .

This binomial expression (x + y)^2 would expand to (x^2 + 2xy + y^2) which consists of the coefficients on the 3rd line in a pascal's triangle. Consequently (x + y)^3 would expand to (x^3 + 3x^2y + 3xy^2 + y^3) where the coefficients reflect the 4th line in the triangle. It goes on and on... It's easy to remember and you can construct the triangle starting with the three 1s on top and continue the next line by initiating a 1, then adding the two top numbers from the previous line, and finally closing it with another 1. From the triangle above, the 6th line would then be:

1 (1+4) (4+6) (6+4) (4+1) 1 = 1 5 10 10 5 1

If you expanded the binomial expression (x + y)^5, the coefficients would reflect the above line. (x^5 + 5x^4y + 10x^3y^2 + 10x^2y^3 + 5xy^4 + y^5). The triangle is not limited to generic expressions with only 1 as coefficients but can also be used for more complex binomial expressions in the form of (ax + by)^n.

Although the triangle is named in honor of Pascal (Blaise), a French mathematician, its existence albeit unclear and unrefined goes way back in Egypt (???) 2000BC~. Source is this book we used in Math history course: (A History of Mathematics, Second Edition) Long time was out of university so I don't clearly remember the details anymore.

Anyway, when I constructed this triangle, I noticed that it needs to start with three 1s and every line begins and ends with the number 1. The triangle goes downwards indefinitely, so it's unbounded. Everything infinitely is enclosed by the number 1. So if God was a number, it would be the number 1.

Addendum: the Trinity belief, though I'm aware it comes from the Bible, I can't help but associate it with the three 1s at the top of a Pascal's triangle, which is needed to conveniently start the progression.

---

As for the joke I mentioned earlier, in our academic study of Pythagorean theorem, we presumed that irrational numbers were unknown to Greeks back then. They only knew of natural numbers and/or fractions and barely grasped the concept of zero or negatives even. So the running joke was when Pythagoras came upon the existence of an irrational number, like when he calculated the hypotenuse of a 45 degree right triangle, he'd come up with roots. Since those numbers are nonrepeating and nonterminating, he just can't get his head over it, went mad crazy insane and decided to take his own life. His foundation that the world (or universe) revolved around whole numbers and/or fractions was utterly destroyed leading to despair/depression and finally suicide. I thought it was funny and wondered if that joke also circled in your parts of the world.

tomoe723
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

This binomial expression (x + y)^2 would expand to (x^2 + 2xy + y^2) which consists of the coefficients on the 3rd line in a pascal's triangle. Consequently (x + y)^3 would expand to (x^3 + 3x^2y + 3xy^2 + y^3) where the coefficients reflect the 4th line in the triangle. It goes on and on... It's easy to remember and you can construct the triangle starting with the three 1s on top and continue the next line by initiating a 1, then adding the two top numbers from the previous line, and finally closing it with another 1. From the triangle above, the 6th line would then be:

1 (1+4) (4+6) (6+4) (4+1) 1 = 1 5 10 10 5 1

Thanks for the fun explanation. The people behind that expression must have had way too much time on their hands. Going to the length they did defining all the different intervals expressed in algebra. Are there any sensible applications for it at all? Other than as a learning tool?

As for the joke I mentioned earlier, in our academic study of Pythagorean theorem, we presumed that irrational numbers were unknown to Greeks back then. They only knew of natural numbers and/or fractions and barely grasped the concept of zero or negatives even. So the running joke was when Pythagoras came upon the existence of an irrational number, like when he calculated the hypotenuse of a 45 degree right triangle, he'd come up with roots. Since those numbers are nonrepeating and nonterminating, he just can't get his head over it, went mad crazy insane and decided to take his own life. His foundation that the world (or universe) revolved around whole numbers and/or fractions was utterly destroyed leading to despair/depression and finally suicide. I thought it was funny and wondered if that joke also circled in your parts of the world.

Yes, I've heared the joke elsewhere too. It's just I seldom joke about suicide, lost too many to it I suppose, don't cry in funerals any more either.

Utnapisjtim

tomoe723
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

This binomial expression (x + y)^2 would expand to (x^2 + 2xy + y^2) which consists of the coefficients on the 3rd line in a pascal's triangle. Consequently (x + y)^3 would expand to (x^3 + 3x^2y + 3xy^2 + y^3) where the coefficients reflect the 4th line in the triangle. It goes on and on... It's easy to remember and you can construct the triangle starting with the three 1s on top and continue the next line by initiating a 1, then adding the two top numbers from the previous line, and finally closing it with another 1. From the triangle above, the 6th line would then be:

1 (1+4) (4+6) (6+4) (4+1) 1 = 1 5 10 10 5 1

Thanks for the fun explanation. The people behind that expression must have had way too much time on their hands. Going to the length they did defining all the different intervals expressed in algebra. Are there any sensible applications for it at all? Other than as a learning tool?

As for the joke I mentioned earlier, in our academic study of Pythagorean theorem, we presumed that irrational numbers were unknown to Greeks back then. They only knew of natural numbers and/or fractions and barely grasped the concept of zero or negatives even. So the running joke was when Pythagoras came upon the existence of an irrational number, like when he calculated the hypotenuse of a 45 degree right triangle, he'd come up with roots. Since those numbers are nonrepeating and nonterminating, he just can't get his head over it, went mad crazy insane and decided to take his own life. His foundation that the world (or universe) revolved around whole numbers and/or fractions was utterly destroyed leading to despair/depression and finally suicide. I thought it was funny and wondered if that joke also circled in your parts of the world.

Yes, I've heared the joke elsewhere too. It's just I seldom joke about suicide, lost too many to it I suppose, don't cry in funerals any more either.

edit on 16-1-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)

I'm not sure I still remember how they made use of it in ancient times, but in recent times 15th century or so Italian mathematicians used it for gambling purposes. The binomial distribution is especially effective at determining probabilities of possible outcomes in win/lose situations, like a dice game or something similar.

Mathematicians have nothing better to do than dabble with numbers all day, so it doesn't surprise me anymore if they did all that and more. I used to have that reaction when I just began my endeavor in the study of Mathematics, wondering how the heck could they maintain such discipline or passion for numbers when to the ordinary person it seems so trivial.

I apologize for the insensitivity of the joke. Suicide is not a light matter to handle. However, having studied the lives of a handful of notable mathematicians, I've come to an understanding that it's normal for them to go crazy and entertain thoughts of ending one's life. Some of them are even diagnosed with mental illnesses. Others almost fade into oblivion until years after their deaths when future generations have chanced upon their works and caught up to their intellects do they gain praise and fame for their efforts at dabbling with numbers when it all seemed so pointless to the people at the time when they were still alive. But rest assured the comedy I apply to these is with endearing affection, much like a friend's advice to another friend that if we can't deal with the problem or fight it, might as well laugh at the problem coz there's no point in piling up the seriousness over it.

tomoe723
I'm not sure I still remember how they made use of it in ancient times, but in recent times 15th century or so Italian mathematicians used it for gambling purposes. The binomial distribution is especially effective at determining probabilities of possible outcomes in win/lose situations, like a dice game or something similar.

Mathematicians have nothing better to do than dabble with numbers all day, so it doesn't surprise me anymore if they did all that and more. I used to have that reaction when I just began my endeavor in the study of Mathematics, wondering how the heck could they maintain such discipline or passion for numbers when to the ordinary person it seems so trivial.

Number theory is fascinating stuff and I regret I never studied it. Then again it's not too late, a friend of mine about my age is a part time calculus student these days. As a kid I always lied saying my dad was an architect and that I would become one too one day. Half a lifetime later and I still don't have a real degree. I started out working straight after high school and it wasn't until a few years ago I tried out the University but didn't complete the BA in linguistic science I started. It did light a spark in me though, and architecture could just be the thing. I would love to create any kind of structure. Architecture is where art meets function in a way. It intrigues me. Anyway, to do that I need more math and physics.

I apologize for the insensitivity of the joke. Suicide is not a light matter to handle. However, having studied the lives of a handful of notable mathematicians, I've come to an understanding that it's normal for them to go crazy and entertain thoughts of ending one's life. Some of them are even diagnosed with mental illnesses. Others almost fade into oblivion until years after their deaths when future generations have chanced upon their works and caught up to their intellects do they gain praise and fame for their efforts at dabbling with numbers when it all seemed so pointless to the people at the time when they were still alive. But rest assured the comedy I apply to these is with endearing affection, much like a friend's advice to another friend that if we can't deal with the problem or fight it, might as well laugh at the problem coz there's no point in piling up the seriousness over it.

No problem with the joke, and I agree with you, there's a fine line between genius and Napoleon. I have experiences with both

Bedlam
I really can't see how. Sound seems really dramatic to us because we've got pretty darn good microphones.

The reason I asked is that at certain frequencies, and dis- or resonances you can make things move, break, vibrate, or like I have experienced a few times give you literal convulsions in the abdomen stopping you from breathing or make you wanna throw up. Remember a Chemical Brothers concert I worked at once, I had to leave the venue to catch my breath and nearly vomited. Also standing by a strip while fighter jets take off can give much the same effect.

PS: Thanks for explaining your view

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


reply to post by Rex282


What about 136.1 Hz , does that number have any significance? This is how The Hindus in India tuned their instruments, it's called 'The Aum Tone'. The Hindus were always interested in sound. They used tuning forks on this frequency so that were doing this since ancient times, but to be honest, I am not sure where the tradition came from.

136.1 Hz would be C# in A=432HZ.

crowdedskies
I was referring to the comment by the OP that 55,000 years ago the Do Re Mi scale was being used by primitive man. To achieve these notes, the distance between each hole has to be calculated with the reference to the diameter and length of the tube using complex formulas. You will not get the do re mi sound by just putting holes in a pipe.

Which was my point exactly. The placement and design of the holes show us this. There is also another way to make a "do-re-mi-flute". By trial and error. Which must have been the case here. Can't really get meself to believe anything else.

arpgme
What about 136.1 Hz , does that number have any significance? This is how The Hindus in India tuned their instruments, it's called 'The Aum Tone'. The Hindus were always interested in sound. They used tuning forks on this frequency so that were doing this since ancient times, but to be honest, I am not sure where the tradition came from.

136.1 Hz would be C# in A=432HZ.

The OM symbol (sounds: Aum)

Apparently, if we are to believe the Upanishads and other books like the Rig Veda and the Bhagavadgita, the entire universe was created by that sound. From Wikipedia below:

Om (written universally as ॐ; in Devanagari as ओं oṃ [õː], औं auṃ [ə̃ũ], or ओ३म् om [õːm]) is a mantra and mystical Sanskrit sound of Hindu origin (geographically India), sacred and important in various Dharmic religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. The syllable is also referred to as omkara (ओंकार oṃkāra) or aumkara (औंकार auṃkāra), literally "om syllable", and in Sanskrit it is sometimes referred to as praṇava, literally "that which is sounded out loudly".

And....

The syllable "om" is first described as all-encompassing mystical entity in the Upanishads. Today, in all Hindu art and all over Nepal and India, 'om' can be seen virtually everywhere, a common sign for Hinduism and its philosophy and theology. Hindus believe that as creation began, the divine, all-encompassing consciousness took the form of the first and original vibration manifesting as sound "OM". Before creation began it was "Shunyākāsha", the emptiness or the void. Shunyākāsha, meaning literally "no sky", is more than nothingness, because everything then existed in a latent state of potentiality. The vibration of "OM" symbolises the manifestation of God in form ("sāguna brahman"). "OM" is the reflection of the absolute reality, it is said to be "Adi Anadi", without beginning or the end and embracing all that exists. The mantra "OM" is the name of God, the vibration of the Supreme. When taken letter by letter, A-U-M represents the divine energy (Shakti) united in its three elementary aspects: Bhrahma Shakti (creation), Vishnu Shakti (preservation) and Shiva Shakti (liberation, and/or destruction).

en.wikipedia.org...

I do have the books I mention here in my library, but haven't actually come to read them yet, so I really don't have that much to add from here. But a great question I hope someone with better knowledge can answer.

Utnapisjtim

Apparently, if we are to believe the Upanishads and other books like the Rig Veda and the Bhagavadgita, the entire universe was created by that sound.

How did the "aum sound" propagate through a vacuum? Sound isn't the sort of thing that can pervade a universe, although it sounds really poetic.