New Gas E15 AAA Insurance Alert: DO NOT USE - Destroys engines, Voids Warranties

loveguy
Using a mechanic (who depends upon cars failing so he has a job tomorrow) isn't the best route to take. He is minimizing it down past preventative maintenance issues...

errm, thats like saying don't listen to a doctor, because they make a living off diagnosing and treating illnesses. The advice in that video is free to anyone who has a computer and youtube. Furthermore, if one is a DIY mechanic like myself, the advise dispensed in said video is sound, simple and easily done by one at home. The parts that he mentions are not very expensive and if you had listened to the video, he states that all the parts alcohol may affect are 'consumables' i.e they wear out and need replacing from time to time anyway.

"Just bring it in and we'll bring everything up to date for you." Average shops charge $85.00 an hour; to fix something that should not be an issue from the manufacturer down.

Not a nice way to nickel and dime consumers pensions is it?

Once again, this is sensationalism at it's finest. None of the cars I have run on e10 or e15 needed any modifications or changes for them to work. GM have released a statement about updating software in newer car's engine management systems to run the e15 fuel. This is because newer cars are all computer based and they get software updates for all sorts of things. My car has had a couple of updates as part of it's regular service schedule. This is something the savvy consumer would do - wait until the next service and get updated then. It's just a case of plugging it into a service computer and uploading some files to it.

Autos older than the 2012 models should be recalled to implement this "standard" at the manufacturers expense, not the consumer.

So, because the govt makes a change that is necessitated by fuel availability, not eco friendliness, you advocate that automakers should foot the bill to change all vehicles that were manufactured before this decision was passed into law

That is like saying because solar panels are now available to generate electricity, all power companies should pay to have them installed on houses. The money for doing so has to come from somewhere and companies despite popular urban legend do not have bottomless pockets. Let's not forget that just a few years ago, talk was that GM was about to go bankrupt until the people in the form of the goverment stepped in and saved them. Even if it did happen, the bill would be passed back to consumers in some way i.e higher prices for new cars, or higher servicing costs.

If you feel that passionately about it, just don't use the fuel. Regular petroleum based gas is and will be for the foreseeable future available you know, you will just have to pay the higher price at the pump because that is the price of 100% petroleum based gas now.......

ChesterJohn
It also causes your engine to run hotter not cooler.

This is also not a problem. As previously mentioned, I have driven approx 100,000km (60,000 miles) in a 1990 Mitsubishi with a 2600 Astron engine with fuel injection who's basic design dates back to the early 1970's and a 1995 VW passat that was also fuel injected.

I live in South Australia, where summertime temperatures are regularly in excess of 106 deg in the day and neither car suffered from overheating nor did the operating temperature rise above what is normal. The engines did not consume oil or suffer from any fuel system component failure. In fact in the Mitsubishi, I found that while fuel economy decreased slightly, there was a noticeable lift in engine power resulting in improved acceleration using the alcohol fuel.

If you are fearful of this new fuel, I suggest you either stay away from it at the pumps or do what I did and go for a diesel powered vehicle when you upgrade. Diesel cars offer superior fuel economy and now offer comparable performance while offering mountains of torque which makes them perfect for towing with.

I personally changed over because I am a keen offroad driver and my SUV being 2 litre, 2 tonne turbo diesel with 4wd offers the same performance and fuel economy as my 2wd, 2.6 litre engined much lighter Mitsubishi stationwagon did and it can tow a caravan (trailer) through our winding hills at 60 mph.

markosity1973

ChesterJohn
It also causes your engine to run hotter not cooler.

This is also not a problem. As previously mentioned, I have driven approx 100,000km (60,000 miles) in a 1990 Mitsubishi with a 2600 Astron engine with fuel injection who's basic design dates back to the early 1970's and a 1995 VW passat that was also fuel injected.

I live in South Australia, where summertime temperatures are regularly in excess of 106 deg in the day and neither car suffered from overheating nor did the operating temperature rise above what is normal. The engines did not consume oil or suffer from any fuel system component failure. In fact in the Mitsubishi, I found that while fuel economy decreased slightly, there was a noticeable lift in engine power resulting in improved acceleration using the alcohol fuel.

If you are fearful of this new fuel, I suggest you either stay away from it at the pumps or do what I did and go for a diesel powered vehicle when you upgrade. Diesel cars offer superior fuel economy and now offer comparable performance while offering mountains of torque which makes them perfect for towing with.

I personally changed over because I am a keen offroad driver and my SUV being 2 litre, 2 tonne turbo diesel with 4wd offers the same performance and fuel economy as my 2wd, 2.6 litre engined much lighter Mitsubishi stationwagon did and it can tow a caravan (trailer) through our winding hills at 60 mph.

One of the major benefits of alcohol is the fact that the engine runs cooler. It's tough to overheat an engine running on alcohol. In fact some drag racers running pure alcohol don't even have a cooling system in their cars, they fill the block solid. This of course would not apply to a street driven car, that would still require a cooling system.

But the fact is, alcohol runs an engine cooler.

reply to post by rickymouse


The fiberglass gas storage tanks that was mandated to prevent gas stations tanks from rusting out will eat up with only 10 % and create a sludge that will clog your gas filter . 15% will eat engine composite parts including gaskets .
On the other hand I read where it takes more than a gallon of petroleum to make 1 gallon of ethyl alcohol . Are we saving the oil we have ? no ! It actually wastes our natural resources . But it makes Food cost more , Gas cost more and supports an un-needed industry and Fat Cats draining our economy .
I am not aware of any resin that will withstand alcohol for long . That makes me wonder about those high pressure fuel lines on our cars today .
I guess we will not need cars if the UN /NWO has its way . Their document called Agenda 21 will move us all into population centers and private property in the USA will cease to exist . And so will a major portion of people .

reply to post by misskat1


At least AAA gives a heads up.
I remember when the Bush Administration lowered the refining standard for Gas, and it caused certain fuel injectors to fail.
The story was the engineer who designed the injectors took samples up and down the coast and yup, the new fuel standard would ruin his injectors.

Usually you see a problem that manufacturer issues a TSB, so you pay for the "fix" when it should be a recall.
In this case, the new fuel is incompatible and the manufacturers will probably test the gas before any warranty repairs.

reply to post by SimonPeter


I agree, it smells like it has something to do with Agenda 21. I don't think their motives are in our best interest.

misskat1
reply to post by SimonPeter

 

I agree, it smells like it has something to do with Agenda 21. I don't think their motives are in our best interest.

Let me spell it our for you......

Every single dollar spent on fuel that is imported is wealth directly exported to another nation. Yes, there are middle men who profit locally, but most if the money goes straight overseas with oil. The stuff comes out of the ground for next to nothing per litre, but the price is hyper inflated by the time it reaches our shores

How do you think the usa had gotten so terribly in debt? Buying in foreign oil means your wealth is being sent to some very unsavory nations where the money is boot being used to benefit the people.

Every dollar that is spent on fuel that has a local component in the fuel i.e alcohol, a portion of that money comes straight back into the economy and the wealth stays in the country.

Quite simply it's bad business to be exporting money in order to keep your cars running along with sill the other things oil does for us.

There is no agenda 21 here, just some smart people trying to do something to turn the tide and both save oil and recreate local wealth

reply to post by misskat1


E15 works fine in all my cars except my Nissan Skyline R32 GTR.....She needs the good stuff.

But if you put E85 in your car.....THEN you'll see your engine crap out!!!

reply to post by markosity1973


Oh ! so you mean that when we buy everything from China that's not a problem .? Your math is somehow overlooking the fact that Globalism has taken much more than petroleum money away from us . Also , that gallon plus we have to buy to convert food into 1 gallon of alcohol so we can mix down 10 gallons with a less combustible and damaging mixture is profitable to who? It will get less mileage , freeze up your gas system in cold weather , kill your 2 cycle equipment by carrying water to your crank pins and roller bearings , cause more car fire fatalities and in the end put more benzene in to our soil and aquifer from eating up the Fiberglass tanks in the ground . A lot of benefits there . But someone will get rich .

reply to post by SimonPeter


Short answer you have no idea what your talking about

reply to post by markosity1973


peak oil isn't that just an opec myth. between oil shale and sands and the vast oil reserves off us east coast that administration will not let be tapped and americas vast amount of coal our gas should be a dollar a gallon or less. the gas prices stay high because gas companies like them high to enable record profits. instead of corn liquor to gas make these companies put some of this profit back into newer refineries and to develop gas from coal like Germany did during wwII . oil companies are known to leave tankers fuel of fuel of us coast just to keep gas prices high. my car is over 20 twaes old and it recently started acting up this might explain why.

reply to post by mikell


Well why don't you elaborate for us .
What part do you dispute ?
1 That it takes more than a gallon of oil to produce a gallon of Alcohol .
2 That 10% alcohol eats up fiberglass composite gas station tanks and fiberglass boat gas tanks .
3 That alcohol eats up the gaskets and seals of engines and more alcohol will carry more water into your fuel system to further damage and create problems .
4 That 2 cycle engines will ingest that water absorbed by the alcohol and expose needle bearings and crankshafts to moisture which will pit and corrode them to failure over time .
Be more specific .

SimonPeter
reply to post by markosity1973

 

Oh ! so you mean that when we buy everything from China that's not a problem .? Your math is somehow overlooking the fact that Globalism has taken much more than petroleum money away from us .

So, I take it that by blaming China and globalism, you hope to take attention away from the fact that America imports approximately 4.9 million barrels of oil a day, spending approx $433 billion in 2012 alone.

science.howstuffworks.com...

Also , that gallon plus we have to buy to convert food into 1 gallon of alcohol so we can mix down 10 gallons with a less combustible and damaging mixture is profitable to who?

The American farmer profits, the factory that employs local Americans to produce the alcohol profits, the company the ships the fuel to the gas station profits and finally the gas station that sells it to you profits. From the seed in the ground to the tank in your car, the profit remains in America.

It will get less mileage ,

The reduction in mileage really depends on the car you drive. As I have mentioned in the past, one car and ran on alcohol based fuel I had there was not a very noticeable difference at all. The dollar savings and extra performance gained over regular (91 octane) fuel made up for the difference anyway.

freeze up your gas system in cold weather

Given that alcohol freezes at -110 deg celcius and that it is a main component of antifreeze, I think it is safe to say you will be dead from hypothermia before it freezes in your fuel tank.

www.saucemagazine.com...

kill your 2 cycle equipment by carrying water to your crank pins and roller bearings ,

www.forconstructionpros.com...

It's not intended for use in small stationary engines. For now, they will have to be used on regular gas, and they only make up a tiny fraction of the gas being used every single day anyway. This is where most of the fear mongering is coming from - small engines used in powertools mowers, portable generators etc, not auto engines.

cause more car fire fatalities and in the end put more benzene in to our soil and aquifer from eating up the Fiberglass tanks in the ground . A lot of benefits there . But someone will get rich .

I think you need to read this artice

Alcohol fuel myths

proteus33
reply to post by markosity1973

 

peak oil isn't that just an opec myth. between oil shale and sands and the vast oil reserves off us east coast that administration will not let be tapped and americas vast amount of coal our gas should be a dollar a gallon or less. the gas prices stay high because gas companies like them high to enable record profits. instead of corn liquor to gas make these companies put some of this profit back into newer refineries and to develop gas from coal like Germany did during wwII . oil companies are known to leave tankers fuel of fuel of us coast just to keep gas prices high. my car is over 20 twaes old and it recently started acting up this might explain why.

While shale oil is definitely not to be overlooked, it is extremely expensive and energy hungry to mine and refine compared to a traditional oil well.

A measure of the viability of oil shale as a fuel source is the ratio of the energy produced to the energy used converting it (Energy Returned on Energy Invested - EROEI). The value of the EROEI for oil shale is difficult to calculate for a number of reasons. Lack of reliable studies of modern oil shale processes, poor or undocumented methodology and a limited number of operational facilities are the main reasons.[20] Due to technically more complex processes, the EROEI for oil shale is below the EROEI of about 20:1 for conventional oil extraction at the wellhead.[20]

en.wikipedia.org...

The fact that shale oil production has become economic in spite of the laws of supply and demand indicates that demand is extremely high and supply is rather short.

As far as price hijacking goes, yes thus has been known to be an issue, and the reason that it is happening is because once again, the oil is not as plentiful as it used to be.

We are not going to run out of oil all together tomorrow or even the next day but I can you tell that here downunder there is a lot of exploration for new oil fields being done and pretty much no discoveries worth merit being made. Any fields governments are 'sitting on' will be for strategic purposes, i.e ww3 breaks out and Saudi Arabia can't / won't ship oil to the US for instance. This is not price hiking, it's insurance for the everyday person in a volatile world.

reply to post by markosity1973


There is no savings in using Ethanol today and will be worse with E85 . Ethanol Fuel today requires 2.6 to 2.8 % more consumption to do the same job plus the oil required to plant , harvest , process and ship to each point of use throughout the country .
A thing call Fractional Freezing can concentrate alcohol thus causing water to separate thus the possibility of freezing . The FAA will not allow the use of Ethanol fuels . Also Ethanol has a tendency to etch aluminum in both cars and aircraft . Most engines have a lot of aluminum in them not to mention gaskets and seals . One wonders about plastic high pressure gas pipe and long exposures to higher and higher ethanol exposure .
The storage at point of use (Gas Stations ) was as I saw it Fiberglass tanks that were installed in place of the Steel tanks that were mandated to be removed at the beginning of 92 . All of the composites of fiberglass I found were not compatible with Ethanol for the long term . Slosh and seal coatings for Ethanol was not that effective for fiberglass tanks so we ate talking about the new tanks being dissolved and leaking . Just ask boaters with built in fiberglass tanks .
The sign on the pump says 10 % or less but it may be 45% as was in one case where the mix point is at the tanker truck and still is .

LightAssassin
reply to post by misskat1

 

E15 works fine in all my cars except my Nissan Skyline R32 GTR.....She needs the good stuff.

But if you put E85 in your car.....THEN you'll see your engine crap out!!!

Try using it in an Antique Car or Motor Cycle. My older bikes can't use it and there are no new carburetors or fuel systems for older Harley's, Yamaha's or Honda's et al for that matter.

As with most threads lately, that blindly link in MSM sensationalism and unfounded claims, this title needs to be placed in the HOAX bin where it belongs. A well known fact with alcohol additive fuels is that they are not compatible with older vehicles, period.

Primarily because of the plastic and nylon parts used in the fuel system. Other then that, they are totally safe with cars at least 15 years old, and you can check with your car manufacturer for specific details.

I hate sensationalist crap titles that are basically lies full of disinformation totally designed for shock effect. The mods on this site need to take better notation, as it is getting absolutely unbearable.

reply to post by charlyv


Why would AAA Insurance want to warn people if it has no merit?
I am not hoaxing anything. I just want to make sure friends at ATS were aware of the possible dangers to their fuel systems. If it is a Hoax someone should tell AAA.

reply to post by ChesterJohn


You shouldn't even be trying to use it in antique engines. I'm not sure where you live but in Australia there was a big awareness program put out before the release of the E15 fuel to ensure this type of event does not happen.

reply to post by LightAssassin

Agreed, and as my own driving experience has shown, you can operate a car in all conditions (I even took it to the snow at Mt Buller running on e-15) with absolutely no problems.

Here in Adelaide we have just officially become the hottest city in the world in our current heatwave and I have not seen a single car broken down. So e15 can and does work fine. All this nonsense about it breaking down fibreglass storage tanks and thereby sludging up your fuel tanks and filters is nonsense, and it supposedly having a higher water content simply has not borne out for me in the real world at all. In fact I never ever had to touch any of the fuel system components in either of my cars at all.

Just don't be stupid about using it in the wrong type of car. As always, the best advice is if in doubt, don't.