Abomination Of Desolation:(the Gay Marriage Issue)

... the overriding expression here that overwhelms everything else.

... "Love throws fear outside," means Christians in theory have nothing to be afraid of. But in fact--it's obvious--they are full of it.

... There is a movement afoot to separate "marriage" from a function that the State supervises. There are Christians tearing up their "marriage certificates" and others refusing to apply for "marriage license" because they feel "Marriage" is a covenant between the couple and God.

... That movement may provide a way out of this mess.

... If Marriage reverts to being strictly a function of the church; and the State is only operative and concerned with "dualities," or "partnerships" or "civil unions," or "family structures," then people in the church can do what they do.

... And the only way a Gay couple can be "married" is in a Church. If they want a "civil union," they can get one of THOSE from the State.

... That ought to satisfy everybody by TRULY and ACTUALLY separate the function of the Church [marriage] from the function of the State [civil unions].

... Separating Marriage out of the State would also place responsibility for the success of marriages in the LAP of the Church; and they would be less likely to churn out weddings like Twinkies than now.

... How about that idea: SEPARATE Church and State?

How accurate the bible has foretold these things, even to the point of how those that would promote this lifestyle would not want to "retain GOD in their knowledge".
Doubting what the bible has said and calling it erroneous. These are the people that would promote this unnatural lifestyle.

The GOD/Christian haters.

As much as they would like to discount the bible and what is has to say, there will be no excuses heard when they stand before GOD.
Your denials and deceptions will be meaningless, You will be cast into the LAKE, whether you accept it or not. "IT WILL HAPPEN"

Nothing you can say or do will "EVER" change this "FACT"
You are only decieving yourself

Help yourselves sin "FREELY" but I guarentee you, One Day You Will Pay A Price. You can laugh, make jokes and fun. When that day comes, it will not be a JOKE or LAUGHING matter. They too laughed at Noah while he was building the Ark, so it is nothing new, they too were wrong, but when they found out how wrong they were it was too late. Let not the same happen unto you, for you have been warned.

Again, let me stress, I do not hate Gays, in fact I would hope that they would repent, I have prayed with many that repented, and would hope that none wind up in the LAKE.

I did not write the bible, but only post what is written. GOD has the final say.

About Gays !
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie , and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. [more: or, rather]
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise alsothe men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another;men with men working that which is unseemly , and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge , God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; [to retain: or, to acknowledge] [a reprobate�: or, a mind void of judgment or, an unapproving mind]

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers,without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [without natural�: or unsociable]
32 Who knowing the judgment of God,they which commit such things are worthy of death, that not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
[have�: or, consent with]

What Part Don't You Understand ?

He contradicted nearly everything our Lord Jesus ever said.

So, you can quote Paul to me all day long, and that doesn't tell me anything.

Paul spoke of mysteries [23 times]; Jesus spoke of Truth

Paul spoke of "be in subjection to authorities." Jesus was executed for sedition.

Paul said women should "be silent and wear a head covering." Jesus had women prominently working in His ministry.

Paul said, "be all in unity," Jesus said, "I came not to bring Peace, but a division ..."

Paul described the ministry to Timothy in most CONVENTIONAL CIVIL terms; Jesus said no such thing, only that, "I have sheep that are not of this fold," and "what you bind on earth will be bound in heaven."

So, go ahead and quote your Apostle Paul. But the Apostle Paul is NOT GOD; neither is he a member of the Trinity, nor of the Godhead.

Yes, Jesus chose him; but maybe he just messed up as Judas Iscariot did. I dunno.

I have a policy. Where Jesus conflicts with the State, I go with Jesus. And where other apostles conflict with Jesus, I go with Jesus.

And that's how I do it.

You do what you want.

Last day prophet you tell it as it is . You see the people , who support this have no knowledge of God and everything. You know, this is what I aslo realize as you mention it, they use ignorant and stupid excuses. to justify their selfish lusts, and also trying to rationalize their bad behaviour. This is the endtime.

it is The End of Time.

... when it all gets packed in this time,

... there won't be anyTHING left--

... Just spirits to go home to Unity.

... Revelation is 2000 years old and long since fulfilled.

... We're at the last part of the last judgment,

... and God is handing out diplomas and futures.

... Let's hope for the best; everything is revealed and nothing will get by His [YHVH's] Attentive Judgment.

Originally posted by crusader
Last day prophet you tell it as it is

BULL! What about:
JUDGE NOT
�Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother�s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother�s eye.� (Mat. 7:1-5\

DRUNKENESS
Proverbs chapter 31 (TEV)
1 These are the solemn words which King Lemuel's mother said to him:
2 "You are my own dear son, the answer to my prayers. What shall I tell you?
4 Listen, Lemuel. Kings should not drink wine or have a craving for alcohol. 5 When they drink, they forget the laws and ignore the rights of people in need.
6 Alcohol is for people who are dying, for those who are in misery. 7 Let them drink and forget their poverty and unhappiness.
Galatians chapter 5 (NLT)
16 I advise you to live according to your new life in the Holy Spirit. Then you won't be doing what your sinful nature craves. 17 The old sinful nature loves to do evil, which is just opposite from what the Holy Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are opposite from what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, and your choices are never free from this conflict. ...
19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, your lives will produce these evil results: sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, 20 idolatry, participation in demonic activities, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other kinds of sin.
MARRIAGE
A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between one man and one or more women. (Gen29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)

B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines, in addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21)

C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut 22:13-21)

D. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be forbidden. (Gen24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh10:30)

E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)

F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe. (Gen.38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)

And since we are "preserving" the institution...and my brother's wife is kind of hot..but then technically she wouldn't be a virgin...but I would still have to marry her.
Hmm.
Damn these scriptural ambiguities!!!
Either way its good to be back in the 13th century again...isn't it?
Isn't
It, slaves?

If I'm not mistaking, there is also a part in the bible stating that woman are not to wear make-up, you are not wear things like crosses or other jewlery showing off your religion....you are not be "worldly" there's all sorts of stuff Christians aren't to do, that they do anyway....but they'll pick out the parts that serves them to push, like homosexuality....

The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision.
-Lynn Lavner

You can't just pick and choose what parts of a religion your gonna follow and what parts your not.

and you base your choices on how results and outcomes turn out best.

Anybody who wants to believe that the Author of Life is stuck on rules and has no sense of reasonableness, simply has never seen a child play with sand and a bucket.

Once all the executions and ethnic cleansing and stoning for victimless crimes is removed from the Law, it becomes quite sensible and nice.

I have a copy of the cleaned-up Law for people who are curious what it would look like without all the condemnation and meanness in it.

Go see www.abidemiracles.com...

God is not stupid. People are stupid.

God is not stupid. People are stupid.

God is the brainchild of people.

Homosexuals are in no way whatsoever "INFERIOR" to hetrosexuals, and deserved to be treated equaly.

Deep

Well said Valhall, Emily et al, this gadfly approach to morality and sin that some Xtians adopt smacks more of spiritual elitism and an excuse to practice predjudice. These people need to rid themselves of their own vanity, self importance and hate before dealing with others. Leave God to deal with 'sinners' you have nothing to fear.

Originally posted by crusader
And I brelieve as the bible says it's an abomination for mankind to lie with mankind..
feedback welcome...

Then who are we gonna lie with, the beasts?

``this know that in the last days,perilous time shall come. for men shall be lovers of their ownselves,covetous,boasters,proud,blasphemers,disobediant to parents,unthankful,unholy,

WITHOUT NATURAL AFFECTION,(term= gaymarriages),trucebreakers,false accusers,incontinent,fierce,despisers of those that are good,traitors,heady,highminded,lovers of PLEASURES more than lovers of God; Having a form of godlinesses, but denying the power thereof;(example: Pat robertson and those of his ilk on tv.(tv evangelists)) (george bush,jr as well.

so you see folks, we are in the last days, and despite what any of you believe these abominations that is taking place,is just the birthpangs. (gay marriages is one of those).

To those who think Christians are selfrighteous,and proud(well some are) . the majority of us,(sincere ones) believe having gay marriages is taking it too far, and we will fight it tooth and nail. By the wya it's a sin that will need some excorsim.

IT'S YOUR OPINION that gay marriages are one of those.

But you may be completely mistaken. Gay marriage may be as valid [from the spiritual side] as heterosexual marriage--maybe not as valid from the physical side only.

We can't judge. Remember? ["Judge not"]

And we can't say categorically, whether the outcome is good or harmful ["You will know a tree by its fruit"]. Maybe there are gay marriages that are good, or better than, conventional marriages. We can't say, categorically.

That's what Jesus taught: that you don't deal categorically with people, no, one must deal individually with people, one-on-one.

Matt 25: "because you did [this] for these the least of my brothers."

Categorizations truly make it difficult to judge rightly, what the "fruit" is or might be. Categorizations are the whole basis of intolerance and prejudice. Jesus in speaking about effects of sin, talked of categories of hypocrites; but when He dealt with people, it was one-on-one, healing them or rebuking them.

sadly, I am dealing with people who have no knowledge at all on this subject matter(last days) and who in their ignorance, refuse to see the wrong in gay amrriage and all possible union of homosexuality whether be man or woman, and of course there's a fact of the inherent nastiness opf bestiality, peodphiles, whoremongers, premarital sex, etc. Deny homosexuality and Ignorance, but I can't rant and rave about the viles and wrongs about it, and you will never see anything with it. But sadly I must do my part to ``preach`` to the perverted, because that's what it is, a PERVERSION. There's no natural affection towards, loving a man, cause it was never made to be that way, from the beginning, and It is called by another word, LUST.

Originally posted by crusader
so you see folks, we are in the last days, and despite what any of you believe these abominations that is taking place,is just the birthpangs. (gay marriages is one of those).

This is the same passage which you cited in your post, but with the original definitions of the Greek words, which are now being used to condemn homosexuals, included. As you will see, there is not a single specific reference to any kind of sex, gay or otherwise, in the entire passage.

2 Timothy 3

1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves(tranlated: selfish), covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection (the phrase "without natural affection" means "without love" or "unloving". It has nothing to do with sexual behavior), trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God ("lovers of pleasures" are those who love amusement, diversion, or worldly enjoyment, of any kind, more than God. While sex could fit this description, so can money, possessions, power, or any other worldly obsession.);
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts ("gunaikaria" is a derogatory Greek term meaning "little women" or "weak women". Their minds are captivated by their various desires or "divers lusts", whatever they may be),
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

To those who think Christians are selfrighteous,and proud(well some are) . the majority of us,(sincere ones) believe having gay marriages is taking it too far, and we will fight it tooth and nail.

Why is it so threatening to you? How would allowing the marriage of gay people effect your marriage or faith? Would you feel "less married" simply because people of the same sex (whom you don't even know) were being given marriage licenses? Will people stop being Christians or fail to become Christians, if society began accepting homosexuals as "normal" and deserving of the same rights as everyone else? How would your life change as a result of this actually happenening? If you were them, would you want to be treated like they are? Do you have such a perfect, complete understanding of the Scriptures and God's will, that you feel qualified to judge your fellow humans or limit their ability to do what they feel is right for them?
Do you believe the Bible is Truth?

Romans 14:
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind...10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ... 13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. 14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. 16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. 19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. 20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence...

Here's a thing to ponder, instead of arguing the rights of wrongs of whether gays should be allowed to marry let's look at whether straight people should also. If marriage is so traditionally bound up in religious practice and belief then maybe only the devout should be allowed to have theirs sanctioned by the church. How many people do you know that barely set foot in a church all their lives but insist on having the traditional church ceremony with all the trimmings, it has no more spiritual meaning to than the right flower arrangement on the buffet table at the reception, of course after the wedding they never set foot inside a church again, all shallow and superficial. So maybe marriage needs to be revised in light of how seriously it's taken and how serious the couple are about following their faith and raising their children within it. Everyone else has a civil ceremony with maybe a church blessing.

Ironic that in times past the church wanted as little to do with marriage as possible, only putting on the ceremony for the nobility and allowing them to conduct their vows inside the church, and then only because it was experdient to court them due to their support. Commoners had to make do with the church porch. Marriage and it's attendant connection with the sexual act was something veiwed by church men as a distasteful yet neccessary evil.

gay people are not normal, no matter what ppl try to imply, because, here this anyman in his right man will not do such perverse acts, it's totally abnormal. Totally. There's the issue about anti-gay lyrics, being sing by Jamaican artistes, such as capelton, sizzla, and Beenie Man, where some of the artists shows being cancelled, because of fears of inciting violence against gays. I have no problem with them singing gays, but apparently some people do. But I guess everyone has a freedom of expression. I support artistes like this for taking a stance like this, on such issues, of moral standings. One more thing the reasons why DUBYA won the elkection, is this: (some people believe in the Christian right wing circle that he espouses moral values, especially to issues related to this one that we are discussing here.) lthough I am not an avidfan of Dubya, and I am somewhat Antibush, I support him 100% on this issue. totally. People have to realize that america, is mostly and largely a right wing, ``Christian `` state, and it was essentially founded on christian principles.. And as long as these people(Fanatical right wing christian evangelicals) remain a majority, they will not allow Gay marriages to be a part of everyday life. And I am thankful for that. Although I Loathe some of them for taking it to the extreme, I support them 100% on this isssue.


GOD BLESS AMERICA!(And every God Fearing(allah fearing to those in the Middle East) Nation On this Planet called Earth.

I support artistes like this for taking a stance like this, on such issues, of moral standings.

Can I just clarify, you support artists like this who sing lyrics about shooting gay people, beating them, killing them for their moral stance. I'm asking because I'm sure I've misunderstood! To encourage people to terminate a life is less of a sin than sleeping with someone of the same sex and those who advocate this have the moral integrity to do so.

Originally posted by crusader
gay people are not normal,

You are not the arbitrator of what is and what is not normal

And what a surprise, you duck and dodge the issues people bring up here and instead say things like the above or that the issue makes you sick.

If it makes you sick, take a pill. Its your problem, not anyone elses.

What some people dont realize is why our forfathers came over. They came over to exercise freedom. Particularly religious freedom. The whole concept of our nation is based on that the fact that people come from a common Creator and no one is better b/c of how they look and that rights are unalienable, hence the bible is what they believe in. Another thing is that in the constitution there is no statment that mentions separation of church and state. I challenge anyone to look at the original constitution and i bet u that there is no such phrase. That phrase was used in a letter from Thomas Jefferson i believe to a preacher. The founding and all of the amenments are so that governmanet cant govern religion but that christian princaples stay in government but that has gone down the poophole. Then there is the thing that people use christians to bash people with is that we are to love our neighbors and all that. I dont hate gays at all but the bible that i believe in says that homosexuality is an abomination to god. that is the reason y dont believe that gays should get the benifits that a husban and wife have. Another little not, there is something between a man and wife that alows them to raise a child ( in most cases) a man and a man of a woman and woman can not have the relationship that is caused by the union of a man had woman.

religious freedom is just that. if the church opts not to marry same sex couples,that is their right. and i will say again what i think....as a heterosexual woman,part of a married couple,that has 2 children.....who CARES! if joe next door wants to marry john,honestly,how are they hurting my rights? how are they demoralizing my children?