It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by crusader
well answer me this? iam that I am. if homosexuality is not sin, what is it. The bible clearly says it's an ABOMINATION! Against God's will. and that's is sin.
Originally posted by crusader
to the ppl trying to justify homosexuality. They have thes homo tendencies. And they should desist from posting on this thread.
Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
What Part Don't You Understand ? The Bible clearly states that these acts are unnatural. You can call God A Liar If you want, but I don't think you will do so when standing in front of him sitting on his Throne.
Originally posted by Cassie Clay
On one hand we have posters like Lastdayprophet & Thinker & their insulting, extremist views based on a specific interpretation (and sometimes not even that) of the Bible as it relates to the topic of Homosexuality.
On the other hand we have posters like Saerlith & Lecky & their insulting, patronizing views such as "the Bible is a fairytale, dummy" & using ad hominem attacks on other posters who disagree with them.
The Conservatives against the Liberals, both with their rigid viewpoints, unwilling to create a dialogue, getting nowhere.
The only difference? Liberals are under the delusion that they are the "tolerant side" -- at the same time that they're bashing other people's beliefs in a particularly nasty fashion & attacking blindly with insults people who disagree with them. I have no problem with Liberals believing what they believe & debating the way they debate but please don't insult my intelligence by claiming yourselves to be "the tolerant ones."
Liberals smugly think that their secular humanist beliefs *are* the truth, the *real truth of existence*, and that people who follow religious beliefs are delusional and stupid. Liberals believe that it should be obvious to anyone with a brain that Homosexuality is perfectly ok. Heck, I believe Homosexuality is perfectly ok. But I don't claim it as a self-evident fact; I will always be open to the possibility that I *might* be wrong, and that's why when I engage in dialogue w/Christians about it I do it with respect. Because nobody really knows *what* the objective truth really is. So to call a person a moron because they don't think gayness is natural & then to *back it up* with claims of your superior, secular-humanist intelligence is a load of s**t!!! Secular humanism is not self-evident fact. It is a belief system...just like Christianity!
The normalness of homosexuality is not a self-evident fact--I'm sorry. To me it is a very plausible possibility. But it is not self-evident--and to use this sort of argument with a Christian is pointless.
Hey, you want hardline Christians to stop believing that being gay is morally wrong--go get the govt to round their children up like the Native Americans and forcibly teach them secularist viewpoints in isolated boarding-school situations. Kidnap them from their communities and "wipe all that religious nonsense away" and maybe you'll finally succeed in "inoculating" them against "moronic religious viewpoints." That's the only way you're gonna do it. Any takers among you oh-so-tolerant "intellectual elite"?
Dennis Miller said it best: he's for Gay Rights but he also believes in Christian Rights -- that Christians have the right not to be told they're "idiots" just for having certain beliefs...the same way Gays have the right not to be called "perverts" for their beliefs.
[edit on 22-11-2004 by Cassie Clay]
Originally posted by crusader
they(children) seeing the two parents kisssing and making love. what will they think?
Originally posted by crusader
To all the detractors and sick people commenting on this thread. heres' the commandment go on and look it up in your bible,(if you have one) Maybe you don't anyway.
Leviticus 18: 22 `` thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
also in Deuteronomy 23: 117. `` there shall be no whore of the daughters of israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of israel.
The first known use of the term sodomy used in a more general sense to mean "crimes against nature" is found in the writings of Jewish historian Josephus (circa A.D. 96) as he summarizes the Genesis narrative: "About this time the Sodomites grew proud, on account of their riches and great wealth; they became unjust towards men, and impious towards God, insomuch that they did not call to mind the advantages they received from him: they hated strangers, and abused themselves with Sodomitical practices" (Antiquities 1.11.1). Note that the final element of his assessment goes beyond the Biblical data, even in the New Testament. Despite the inaccuracy, this meaning is the primary one that we use today.
The punishment of the sodom and Gomorrah. was for these same despicable acts.
Imagine you were gay and someone like lastdayprophet attained a position of authority over you whether it be boss, manager or politician, how safe would you feel, how sure could you be that he wouldn't let his personal beliefs affect his actions towards you. With the greatest respect to you lastday I can't honestly say I'd be too confidant.
I have seen too many die from this perversion and thus is why I am so against it. I have had christian friends that were backslidden and got caught up in this perversion. Have talked to them on their death beds, where many repented of this vile act against God.
I have seen the power of God bring deliverance to those that truly wanted to be delivered, and have seen many restored to a normal life. They themselves would tell you that it is a perversion and they are glad to be set free.
"Don't take me wrong, I do indeed love the sinner, but I utterly Hate that Sin"
To take a Man, that is made after the Image of God, given power and authority in the earth, and then to lower to the likeness of a dog is truly a abomination like none other.
Originally posted by crusader
I brelieve as the bible says it's an abomination for mankind to lie with mankind..
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I
have learned a great deal from your posts, and I try to share that
knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend
the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that
Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the
specific laws and how to follow them:
* When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it
creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Leviticus 1:9). The problem is
my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I
* I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair
price for her?
* I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in
her period of menstrual uncleanness (Leviticus 15:19-24). The problem
is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
* Leviticus 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both
male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations.
A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not
Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
* I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated
to kill him myself?
* A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Leviticus 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
* Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God
if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading
glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room
* Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the
hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by
Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?
* I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead
pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
* My friend practices the Wiccan religion. Since Exodus 22:18
states that he must be put to death, am I morally obligated to kill
him as well?
* My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two
different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing
garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester
blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really
necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town
together to stone them (Leviticus 24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn
them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who
sleep with their in-laws (Leviticus 20:14)?
* I read that Amnesty International is in Thailand protesting the
selling of underaged girls into slavery and prostitution. Should I
write my congressmen and request that we encourage these young girls
to obey their masters as it states in Ephesians 6:5?
* I need to do some business on the island of Crete soon but Titus
1:12 states that people from the island of Crete are liars and lazy.
Should I be careful when doing business there?
* At the church I attend, some women lead a Bible study. What is
the best way to tell them to shut up? We must not have women speaking
in church when 1 Timothy 2:12 forbids them to.
* Many of the women in our church wear jewelry. Since women are
forbidden to wear jewelry (1 Peter 3:3) what is the best way to tell
them they are going to hell?
* I want to obey 2 Thessalonians 1:26 and greet all the women at
our church with a kiss. Why do I get strange looks from them when I do
- especially from their husbands? What about French kissing?
* Recently, I have asked several women in my church to marry me
since it is permissible for a man to have many wives (1 Kings 11:3).
Why do I continually get rejected? People at church are beginning to
* I suppose I will not get married since the Bible states that men
ought not marry (1 Corinthians 7:1). What do you suggest?
* There are many unbelievers where I work and because we are
forbidden to associate with them (1 Corinthians 4:11), I am wondering
how best to tell them to keep away from me.
* Should I have the foreskin of my penis cut off? Exodus 12:48
commands that all men must do this. I would have my doctor do it but I
think I can save some money by doing it myself. Any ideas on how best
to do it?
* In the case of a circumcised baby who has lost his entire penis
due to a botched circumcision, who has ended up having transgender
sexual surgery performed upon him, who has subsequently been given
female hormones and raised as a girl, who has no idea what has
happened to him and who grows up with an innate confusion about his
true identity, who is never told about what originally happened to
him, who is most often quite odd-looking in appearance (essentially
like the character "Pat" played by Julia Sweeney of Saturday Night
Live television fame; what is described as a "butch" female by some
people), who is often ostracized and continually insulted and taunted
by society for his appearance; such a person, when he participates in
what appears to be heterosexual sex, that must mean that he is really
participating in homosexual sex instead, and thus, should he be
treated as a homosexual and condemned to hell also, or should we give
him just a little leverage in the matter, since, after all, his
parents were really trying to live by God's law?
* I know that Jesus' main teaching is that we should love our
neighbor as we love God. However, if I have homosexual neighbors, does
this mean that I should not love them like Jesus said I should, and
that I should condemn them to eternal hell, instead of allowing Jesus
to do that when they die, if Jesus really wants to do that?
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident
you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is
eternal and unchanging. Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.