Abomination Of Desolation:(the Gay Marriage Issue)

Strange thread this one, i thought id add my thoughts.
FRom a logical veiwpoint, the human anatomy is designed to allow reproduction, therefore anal sex, weather between gays or anyone else is purely lust, no more.
Could be the reason there appears to be so many gay folk now is simply because there are so many folk now, Period!

My personal thoughts are along the lines of evolution. Consider if you will, a given poulation of any other creature is limited by certain factors.
It may be predation of another species, sheer volume of the species in question may mean avail food source runs out, hence animals starve and the population drops to levels sustainable in the area/ habitat.
Disease also plays its part.
The human animal on the other hand, has evolved far beyond this. Capable of manipulating its enviroment to siut itself, produce its own food,
and overcome all threat of predation against it. Not only this, the human has cleverly managed to elimenate almost all life threatening disease, and even go beyond sexual misfunction to allow reproduction artificially.
How then can nature "fight" against this? how can the population be controlled?
perhaps evolving "phycological disorder" (apologies to gays who find the idea distastful) is the only way around it. We control our bodies but our minds? I have no idea what % of the worlds gay populace still reproduce, weather thru choice, artificial means) and what % fails to do so, but it seems to make sense that most gay folk wont reproduce, therefore a growing % of gay folk means a lower % of humans in general.
So far only war limits us, but is not war a form of phycoloical disorder? To kill over religion/politics etc.
Just my 2c.

Listen to this religious man talk:

1. If you don't agree with something, BAN IT [make it a crime]. Don't you realize, what Jesus came here to do was free us from the obligation to stone people to death for their "sins"?
..... On what theological basis--if you are a Christian living out what Jesus said--JUDGE NOT--how in the world are you going to tell somebody else what they can or can't do--and then POLITICALLY LEGISLATE THAT, to boot?
..... Oh! You show me where Jesus said, GO LEGISLATE Morality, and I'll eat my HAT!

2. It doesn't affect you [or me] so it doesn't matter? What kind of stinkin' thinkin' is this? Killing 100,000 innocent Iraqs hasn't affected you or me yet either! But IF WE GOTTA REAP WHAT WE SOW--guess what happens NEXT? Yeah. We're gonna take it on the chin!!

..... Evil affects everybody who turns a blind eye to it. Jesus had the balls to speak out in His day about what was Injust and Unfair about the society in which He lived. HE SPOKE A TRUTH about Justice. So, you think, if something doesn't affect me directly, I should BE QUIET ABOUT IT?

..... And how much Evil do you think I ought to indulge? Should I indulge the President's calling for WAR by TELLING LIES ABOUT the circumstances in Iraq? Should I be silent about the tax money I PAY THAT GOES FOR KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE?

..... Should I be silent about the chemicals in the drinking water where I live [that I have filtered out] but that POISON the other people who haven't purchased water filtration systems? Should I be quiet about that too?

..... How much Evil do you want me to choke DOWN, MISTER CHRISTIAN?

..... Eh?

tebyen:

>I've seen horses, cows, dogs, cats, pigs, gerbils, hamsters, goats, and sheep all participate in homosexual activities. Not just the males of those species, but the females as well. Now, if it's not natural, why are those animals doing it?

Hmmm...are you saying that gays only have the intelligence of these types of animals? I mean, really, humans are somewhat a bit more intelligent than animals - goes without saying (excluding our quest to destroy the earth that is).

Oh, and another thing - dogs eat their own sh i t

Now I'm sure you don't want to say that gays do that as well do you?

No, I didn't think so

This thread is pointless, you can't reason with stupid.

"Pointless discussion" is neither point-of-view expressed here. It's not

PRO "Free-to-whatever" NOR PRO "Free-to-abide-with-Godly-Law"

Which side of this discussion are you on?

Originally posted by astoreth
tebyen:

>I've seen horses, cows, dogs, cats, pigs, gerbils, hamsters, goats, and sheep all participate in homosexual activities. Not just the males of those species, but the females as well. Now, if it's not natural, why are those animals doing it?

Hmmm...are you saying that gays only have the intelligence of these types of animals? I mean, really, humans are somewhat a bit more intelligent than animals - goes without saying (excluding our quest to destroy the earth that is).

Oh, and another thing - dogs eat their own sh i t

Sorry, not really sure what you're trying to say here. Intelligence and nature are inclusive/exclusive????Have absolutely no bearing on the matter whatsoever????? Some humans drink their own p**s, what's that got to do with anything either.

Oh and astoreth criticising someone who's a homosexual doesn't make you a homophobe per se, but criticising them simply for the fact that they are homosexual does.

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
"Pointless discussion" is neither point-of-view expressed here. It's not

PRO "Free-to-whatever" NOR PRO "Free-to-abide-with-Godly-Law"

Which side of this discussion are you on?

You are no scholar Emily, you're a bigot. Scholars learn. You seem unable to take in evidence and process it with common sense. Your only frame of reference in this thread seems to be the bible and some odd personal misconceptions about what a family is.

Your so-called "godly-law" is for you and your fellow christians to follow. It does not concern anyone else. There are many many religions with their own moral codes. And many more non-religious humans with just as moral, if not more so, codes of behavior. Any argument based on the rightness of any religious belief is by it's very nature pointless. You can say your book tells you anything, like people will rise from the grave, and a woman jumped out of a man's rib. Pretty dang silly when looked at in light of common sense and thousands of years of human observation.

So for you and your kind to make any judgements about anyone else is ludicrous. You believe unquestioningly in a really bizarre book. That is no basis for making decisions that affect millions of people who may or may not think your book is relevant.

Blind faith = closed mind. Can't argue what color the sky is with a blind person. Can't argue human rights with a christian. They don't believe in rights for anyone but the righteous.

--Saerlaith

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
"Pointless discussion" is neither point-of-view expressed here. It's not

PRO "Free-to-whatever" NOR PRO "Free-to-abide-with-Godly-Law"

Which side of this discussion are you on?

My post was harsh, but I'm not going to contribute anymore of my time trying to prove to you that being homosexual isn't a choice. I've made my stance pretty clear. Some of you have already made up your own minds or compare it to beastiality.

I must say that I'm quite sure most of you homophobes (yes, that's what you are...not a copout, but the truth) made up your minds about this issue before ever trying to understand the other side.

It's a shame because there are many homosexuals out there who are surrounded by judgmental Bible beaters like yourselves who tell them how wrong they are. They think to themselves "why did God make me like this to only be scrutinized by others?" Can you honestly say that if Jesus were alive today he would go around condemning all the homosexuals? If this is the type of God you worship...I don't want any part of it.

In my life so far, I've experience 2 types of Christians:

Type APeople are Christians b/c they are scared of going to Hell, who spread their fear and hate in the name of their Lord.

Type BPeople attracted to Christianity because of the positive message it gives out. These guys are the ones who strive to be more like "Jesus" and leave the judging up to God...like they are supposed to.

Which method do you think is more effective in getting your point across?

Again, people do not choose to be gay just like they don't choose to be white, black, male, female, etc. Just like people don't choose what country they are born in, or how they will be raised. This may not work very well with your own beliefs, but that's not their problem...it's yours.

[edit on 11/21/2004 by Lecky]

I am sick. Totally of gay people wantin rights as hetrosexual couples. and also the supposedly clergy who are supposed to be close to God permitting and also marrying man and man or woman and woman. This could be the abomination of desolation the bible has spoken about. the descration of God's holy places can;t be allowed to continue. And I brelieve as the bible says it's an abomination for mankind to lie with mankind..
feedback welcome...

Assuming that God exists, and that the Bible is God's word, you are right. But what if God does not exist?

Originally posted by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
when a pastor or leader of a christian church is openingly homosexual, practising a homsexual lifestyle and is accepted by his congregation then you know that the apostacy has arrived.

I take it that you haven't been following the news much? There are quite a few churches who have homosexual pastors... openly homosexual pastors. Some of them minister to the GLBT population. I encountered one a few years ago; she was very much like any other pastor I met.

Throughout the ages, any number of gays and lesbians have been church members and have served in all capacities in the churches. You've probably met some of them.

I think you can find good evidence that gays and lesbians were leading churches and sects far back into history (I don't study the GLBT issues so I don't know.) So by your count, the "apostacy" has been going on for at least two thousand years.

1. Saerlaith can just save his lectures for somebody else. He was not reflecting any opinion of mine.

2. Byrd, you are absolutely correct IN FACTS. The fact is, people don't seem to know what God wants them to do or be.

3. Okay. It's also true that few humans find their way back Home to God, simply due to the problem stated in 2. God is careful about whom He chooses to take Home with Him.

4. But hey! The Earth is for the habitation of people who are not God-fearing, but men-fearing--the meek. Devotees of God are NOT MEEK.

So, there's no loss here. Everybody is just experiencing experience.

That is why Saerlaith's comment to me is so out of place--because I do not take a stand on the integrity issue involved in homosexuality. I see it as a trial, a tough one. That's not the same as a moral issue that is black and white.

Not only that, but Jesus--if you are familiar with the Redemption story--died so that people who would have been stoned to death in Israel for "victimless crimes" would no longer suffer that penalty.

So, Christians have NO GROUNDS for condemning people--OUT OF HAND--who are homosexuals. They may have some problems with the outcomes of homosexual behavior that must be dealt with; but that's different from simply dismissing ALL homosexuals as enemies of God. Obviously, they're not.

Would I join a congregation that was served by a homosexual priest? I dunno. Maybe if I didn't know that.



[edit on 21-11-2004 by Emily_Cragg]

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
That is why Saerlaith's comment to me is so out of place--because I do not take a stand on the integrity issue involved in homosexuality. I see it as a trial, a tough one. That's not the same as a moral issue that is black and white.

You think they were born that way as a trial? To learn what that they are "perverted"? Have you ever thought that God may have placed them on this earth to test the people who judge? Do you really think God is concerned about our sex life? It's all about how you interpret the Bible I guess...some things stick out more than others for some people.

If people are going to blast the gays than at least be fair and blast out all those other Bible no no's that people commit everyday. Why focus on just that? Hmmm...I know why, b/c they are homophobic. Leave what homosexuals do in the privacy of their own bedrooms their business...who are you to say what is right and what is wrong. Who are you to say they can't get married? Marriage, btw has been around a long time....long before God ever got involved...the Christian one for that matter.

It's simple, leave your God (because that's what he is to other people) out of other people's business. Just because you believe in your faith with all your heart doesn't mean you are right or have the right to judge anyone else. Try your hardest and put yourself in someone else's shoes before you claim yourself to be all righteous.

Stop using Jesus for your own homophobic agenda! Hmm...now who else uses their religion for their own agenda? Hmmmm....

[edit on 11/21/2004 by Lecky]

What people do in the privacy of their bedroom affects the whole gene pool.

Therefore, "others" have a right to have an opinion about what's happening to the gene pool.

I may not be able to do anything but have an opinion about what the likely results, effects and outcomes will be.

But, I am at least entitled to THAT, the exercising of my own judgment.

You have no right to tell me what I can or cannot think of your behavior.

That's thought control. And I reject thought control. And so should we all.

``

actually the meme: Abomination of Desolation

might very well be Homosexual acts
or could be the Pedophelia amongst the clergy

as either is also characterized as sodomy or fornications etc

and in both the pragmatic and sublime meanings of virtue & rightousness->
the act of 'casting' a mans 'seed' onto 'desolate ground' is contrary to the instructions (Laws) that man was given, by the 'creator'....

create your own inventions...but 'marriage' was created & endured by a religious consent...and that arrangement was (until now, again) respected by a continuous line of soverigns and governments thruout history.

now, there can be a 'gay-'marriage or a 'homo-'marriage, as far as govt recognisition is concerned...but the hetrosexual condition/structure of 'marriage' is long established and become institutional, dogmatic.

*;*

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
What people do in the privacy of their bedroom affects the whole gene pool.

Therefore, "others" have a right to have an opinion about what's happening to the gene pool.

I may not be able to do anything but have an opinion about what the likely results, effects and outcomes will be.

But, I am at least entitled to THAT, the exercising of my own judgment.

You have no right to tell me what I can or cannot think of your behavior.

That's thought control. And I reject thought control. And so should we all.

Yikes!! Why is it the haters seem to be so concerned with the gene pool. We're all affected by close-minded christians who keep teaching hate to their children.

And by your own posts, you've stated that gay people can't breed, so they don't affect the gene pool. Unless you mean by staying out of it.

This whole thread would be silly if not for the utter depth of ignorance and bigotry expressed by people who follow a narrow interpretation of their particular rule book. Now that affects the gene pool.

--Saerlaith

The initial post of this thread was conceived out of ignorance of the good book and composed by intolerance for that which that good book preaches.

The Abomination of Desolation had to do with the defiling of the Temple by Antiochus Epihanes, and later with Hadrian's sacriligeus act over the Bethlehem gate.

Marriage itself is defiled by every man and woman who finds it necessary to accept government legislation for a contract in the form of a piece of paper, and the requirement to have it excised by court legality. the day that government gets out of the money making scheme known as marriage, is the day that marriage starts its march back to what it was supposed to be about, a union of two people in the eyes of God.

Wouldn't I love to have some of the arguments against slavery and women's rights from those days when the opposition of those belched the same guile and invoked the same Biblical rhetoric against those.

Rather than allow your hate for homosexuals to eat at your innerds, try dealing with that which is important instead, after all, 100 years from now, the inflammatory rhetoric will find its place in history alongside slavery and women's servitude.

And I still think that the abomination of desolation could conceivably been when our congress in their great wisdom proclaimed Moon as the messiah in the congressional building...

Sorry, but way back when I was going to church, they were saying that it referred to the antichrist being the preist in the temple in Jerusalem, I don't believe it had anything to do with homosexuality back then.

ubermunche:

>Sorry, not really sure what you're trying to say here. Intelligence and nature are inclusive/exclusive????Have absolutely no bearing on the matter whatsoever?????

I would assume that the gay animal stories you are referring to will be the occassional "humping" noticed by observers between two animals of the same sex - most likely due to mistaken identity.

Show me a gay animal that decides to live (as a consenting adult) with another gay animal and I'll certainly be shocked. If this even exists in the animal kingdom, it wouldn't work in the long term as the gay relationship wouldn't produce any offspring and therefore the gene would die out.

Also, the difference between gay animals and gay humans is that gay animals have no idea what they are doing, let alone how nature works. Humans on the other hand have eyes and intelligence to observe nature and how it works. Observing and understanding how nature works and to then go against it has to leave yourself asking some pretty basic questions about why you operate in that mode...and don't blame it on a "gene".

>Oh and astoreth criticising someone who's a homosexual doesn't make you a homophobe per se, but criticising them simply for the fact that they are homosexual does.

Fair enough, I accept that...BUT phobia is defined as "an anxiety disorder characterized by extreme and irrational fear of simple things or social situations". Well, one thing I can tell you - I aint scared of any gay people, I just don't agree with the PROMOTION of the lifestyle.

As I have said before, the only difference betwene gay people and normal people is what they do in the bedroom. If gay people kept it in the bedroom then fine, however if you want to bring forth your bedroom kinks into the public realm then expect some opposition. I know I have a few bedroom kinks but I'm certainly not going to tell the world about them - they're private and it's none of the worlds business what I do in the bedroom.

For those that think being gay is NOT a choice, I would say this: why do the majority of gay blokes have a girlie voice? That certainly isn't natural, it is LEARNT...now the question remains; it is a choice to learn it OR is it subconsciously learnt through association? If it is subconsciously learnt through association then is it not possible that becomg gay was also learnt through association? From my discussions with gay people, the MAJORITY have been tampered with when they were children (for those that I am close with). A very good mate of mine simply states that "he can't stand women"...fair enough too, they can be challenging at times.

For those that think being gay is a choice then you may want to look into ENDOCRINE DISRUPTORS. Here's a good FACTUAL story:

www.truehealth.org...

PS: Yes, I do have gay friends and YES I do tell them what they do is fine as long as they don't try to push it on the kids...and you know what - they're fine with that...in fact some even think that the small percentage of gays that are pushing for all these reforms are actually making it harder in some ways for gay people by polarizing the population.

Originally posted by astoreth

Fair enough, I accept that...BUT phobia is defined as "an anxiety disorder characterized by extreme and irrational fear of simple things or social situations". Well, one thing I can tell you - I aint scared of any gay people,

Didja hear that all you queers? Astoreth ain't afraid of no gay folk!

If gay people kept it in the bedroom then fine, however if you want to bring forth your bedroom kinks into the public realm then expect some opposition. I know I have a few bedroom kinks but I'm certainly not going to tell the world about them - they're private and it's none of the worlds business what I do in the bedroom.

How is wanting to get married equal to revealing a few bedroom kinks? Maybe it's just me but I much rather attend a gay wedding than hear anything you say involving the word "kink"

For those that think being gay is NOT a choice, I would say this: why do the majority of gay blokes have a girlie voice? That certainly isn't natural, it is LEARNT...now the question remains

It's LEARNT ya'll...they dun learnt it!

I love your brilliant theory on gay men learning the "girly" voice...do they offer classes for that?

people, the MAJORITY have been tampered with when they were children (for those that I am close with).

Hmm...I'd like some stats to back that claim up please. There are those who are molested as children, but then again there are lots of people who are molested and aren't homosexual.

A very good mate of mine simply states that "he can't stand women"...fair enough too, they can be challenging at times.

Challenging? Nah...how so?

For those that think being gay is a choice then you may want to look into ENDOCRINE DISRUPTORS. Here's a good FACTUAL story:

Yea, I read that fascinating link...but GUESS WHAT? Homosexuality has been around a loooong time before plastics, pestacides, etc. got here...

LOL I needed a good laugh, thanks for that alternative healing website...really credible.

in fact some even think that the small percentage of gays that are pushing for all these reforms are actually making it harder in some ways for gay people by polarizing the population.

Why because it's pissing off homophobes like you? Once again...that's your problem.



[edit on 11/21/2004 by Lecky]

If you take the bible totally out of the picture, the repulsive act between two homosexual men is utterly filthy. The main purpose of sexual intercourse is for reproduction. If two men wanted to live together without commiting this filthy form of intercourse it would be different. The sexual act between two men is lust in it's lowest and ugly form, it produces absolutely nothing but sweat, musk and filth. No children or families are born out of it. It only serves to forfill a burning lust.

I for one do not want my children to see two men or women kiss passionately. It is not normal.

If this was a normal lifestyle, men and women would have been doing it from the begining. Some would say they have been doing it from the begining.
I would say that if it was being done it was hidden, behind closed doors, for they knew if they were found out there would be severe consequences.

With the advent of "RIGHTS" now everyone feels they can come out of hiding, if it was natural how come they always hid their acts ?


Growing up in jamaica, if a men was found to be gay, they would cut his part off, maybe a bit extreme, but you will not find too many gay men in jamaica.

It is hard to understand how men could find pleasure in such perversions, it's as if they are trying to imitate the sex acts of dogs, they even get into the same position.

Someone said that there are gay animals, I doubt this and if it has occured it has to be very rare. In my 40+ years I have never witnessed a gay act between animals and it certainly is not the norm.

To think these acts are normal defies logic

Besides the filth issue is the medical, the bleeding and others things that are so filthy I won't even discuss them. Something is wrong with their thinking.