Ok, "Free" people I am going to make you look very carefully at yourselves and this world.

Democracy, eh? You think you are a self-ruled people? You think that you have a democracy? Try to hold a caucus and remove some of the government from controlling you. Try to remove the federal government from its influence over you. Tell me how you are a free people, if you cannot rule your own government.

A VOTE DOES NOT MAKE A DEMOCRACY. Just because you vote one time a year does not mean you are ruling yourselves. Most of the issues and people are not coming from you, they are coming from political machines that the people have no control over. There are no caucuses where these matters and laws are coming from. They are coming from the top down.

The top players in politics have all become part of the same show - it is NOT a democracy that we have in America, and it is steadily changing into something else entirely. We have no more control over the direction is going - it is being guided by forces and people that have no visibility or accountability. WE ARE SERVING THEM and their world view.

People wake up and face the bitter truth. It is bitter, but you need to drink it. Break your dream state and realize that we are living in a lie. Those who say, we are going to spread "democracy" to the rest of the world are in truth saying SOMETHING ELSE. They are saying "We are going to make the whole world just like the American system, where the people live under the control of superpowerful forces and have no real control over their world anymore.

Is that freedom? It is impossible.

Wake up and understand what this world has become. Look at what America has become. Don't lie anymore to yourself.

Arkaleus

We're supposed to be a Constitutional Republic but right now we seem to be on the road to fascism.

Heil to the Chief?

Democracy doesn't work or captialism.

The reality the majority of people are kept at the bottom paying the interest to their home loans and car loans for the rest of their lives. The banks give out money out of thin air (print it) While the rich sit there at the top squezzing the orange more to get more money from the people.

It's just a vacume that sucks the majority dry and then end up owning everything.

They own the news, the media, the radio's, the cooperations, the army.

The people don't have a say anymore, but massive cooperations who have sucked dry the people and gained enormous wealth.

Nothing is in the interests of the people anymore, but the interest's of money makers are the issuses that get takelled by the governments.

And it is THIS system that they want to establish around the whole world.

THAT's the modern abomination they call DEMOCRACY. They have no intention of making a free people who rule themselves AND the means of their Society, but merely the hollow and deceptive lie of voting for one servant of the powers or another.

The key is Liberty, brothers, Liberty is what they cannot counterfeit. It is the true currency of nations and men, and without it he is poor indeed.

Does the Iraqi understand the "gift" G. W. Bush has granted them? So beneficent is he, that he will shed YOUR blood FOR you in the cause of your new DEMOCRACY.

And lo, hither come the suppliers and financiers of your new government, nicely tucked into the pockets and systems of this new world construction company, each the brother and cousin of one another!

Rome has set fine precedent for such men, and their deeds are well recorded. Yet our people do not know them, therefore they will repeat them.

Where are the satirists and intelligencia? Where are the stinging speeches and essays? Where are the guards of our Liberties? Why has such a cold silence come upon the minds of America while this puppet tyrant comes to a second term of his tyranny? A chill wind blows from the East, brothers, and it is numbing our very senses.

Arkaleus

Government doesn't work - it all declines over time, but it is probably better to have some order while it lasts..

- Attero

These men well know the course of history. They studied such matters for themselves while removing them from the rest of us. Your children learned how to be slaves, and watch television, while these new masters were trained in the tools of the new world their fathers built after the war.

It is quite an orchestration of power transition. Liquifying the Liberty of an entire nation took almost 50 years to accomplish, but accomplished it was. Now, the more wise and aware of us will start awake as a man who has been dreaming, only to see the terrible destruction of his precious Liberties, which in truth is the fire and life of any people. Wicked and cross are these men who have come to rule us, and take away our place and our nation.

Now the people themselves have been conditioned to hate freedom, and dispise Liberty, such that they will drive out and abuse any man who rises up among them to claim his ancestral right, or assert his manhood in any fashion. Well trained servants of the new world, you have done well.

The wise will see the trend, and know the inevitable course it must take. The masses have been effectively ensared with the material of this world, there is no retreiving them. Quite lost are they, and permanantly so, I fear that true Liberty is very much in danger again, in fact it may disappear from the entire world for some time to come.

Will there rise any of you from your slumber, ye men of faithful hearts and true spirits? It is our call we have heard, not some other people's.

Arkaleus

[edit on 21-11-2004 by Arkaleus]

"Now the people themselves have been conditioned to hate freedom, and dispise Liberty, such that they will drive out and abuse any man who rises up among them to claim his ancestral right, or assert his manhood in any fashion. Well trained servants of the new world, you have done well."

I absolutely agree with you Arkaleus, people have been cheated, and, generation after generation, they have been slowly conditioned to accept all the present madness.

The current democracy system is more of a "choose the fool that will rule you" system.

They know that slaves always rebel after a while, because they know they are enslaved. What if the slaves thought they were free ? Would they rebel ? Of course not !

Nevertheless, we still have some power : buying or not buying ! Stop buying the products that make the rulers earn money, and they will soon lose their power.

Unfortunately, they have gone so far in their strategy, that sometimes we can't even do other way than buying them their products.

So let's just do it as much as we can... is there something else we can do to regain our freedom ?

Have a nice day everyone !

RedSky

[edit on 21-11-2004 by RedSky]

Once more I am glad that I do not live in the US.

In Portugal we may poorer, in average, but at least we can control our government.

the system has been used to subvert the system..a political and legal corporate qugmire that has been structured so that the sheeples will and can never understand how things work anymore. the sheepples are to busy working for less and less $$ to pay for more and more toys. the current AMERICAN way of life an not be kept.

like it was said..we are 'free' because we get to vote once a year....the people don't make laws..if 'lawmakers' know that a bill wont pass, they just tack it onto the end of a bill that they know will pass....how convenient is that?!?!

the public is a sound bite public...if you can hook them in 10 seconds..you've got them. look at all the political ads on TV during the election...30 seconds of nothing but, they still had an impact. poloticians can lie...oh, i meant stretch the truth about thier past and nobody cares. the govt can get caught, red handed, in a lie, er..i..ah meant 'a situation where they were misinformed' by another area of the govt and nobody cares. the govt can pick and choose what it wants to enforce, and do it openly and nobody cares. nobody cares.........

it has taken me a while to see it..and it was a VERY difficult truth to see..(with my 'patriotic' background) that there are actually people in this world that want absolute power, leaders that want absolute control, corporations that have political power, groups of powerfull individuals that want even more power and influence and money and control and that THEY are who run the govts that can and will influence the world in the years to come.....and that there is nothing we can now do about it..

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall
grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it,
or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it. " - Abraham Lincoln

in AMERICA, we, the people have lost the above opition..all portions of it...

Democracy does not work,
sorry, but the best way to rule a society without any problems is with a iron grip. Giving people freedom allows them to do anything they wish.

Are you serious? Do you desire to live under such a system? Do you advocate the slavery of the masses, and the retention of power by the arrogant few?

An Iron grip, eh? Otherwise people "do what they want?" Some of the most corrupt and violent political ideologies in this world have come from this line of reasoning. People doing what they want is not the threat to this world. The assumption that mankind must be ruled and gripped firmly is a rather silly one. Who is going to rule them, but other men? And of other men, who are under the same presumption of wicked ness and vice and corruption as the rest of the population are given command, then only vice and misery can result. Not to mention war.

I think you said this to be inflammatory, because you did not reason with us, but just made your foolish comment and departed. Such profane persons are an enemy to Liberty, and they always have been. The are a friend to any tyrant that appears, whether it be an individual or system of groups. As long as they can feed and pamper their bodies. Such men are the servants of darkness.

Democracy has never been a friend to Liberty. It is unstable, violent, and selfish. It only works in small groups. It is a cruel manipulation of an ignorant people to say that America is democratic. It is no longer. It is a republic only in name. It has not been a repubplic for 100 years. it is now something totally different - it is ruled by industrial and political combines that have nothing to do with the people.

Liberty is in danger. It is the first casuality of any system ruled by power, instead of enlightened philosophy. Damn these men, and damn them who collaborate with them. Damn them who acquiesse and assent to their power, and upbraid us who resist them.

Arkaleus

Originally posted by Arkaleus
Are you serious? Do you desire to live under such a system? Do you advocate the slavery of the masses, and the retention of power by the arrogant few?

New terrorists laws and the upcoming police state means we are already living in a iron grip.

I think you said this to be inflammatory, because you did not reason with us, but just made your foolish comment and departed. Such profane persons are an enemy to Liberty, and they always have been. The are a friend to any tyrant that appears, whether it be an individual or system of groups. As long as they can feed and pamper their bodies. Such men are the servants of darkness.

Excuse me??
Iron grip doesnt mean "harsh rule" just a grip of the society to keep control. And am i a servant of darkness?

Control? Who needs to be controlled? You?

Sir, shall I bring my law and sword to you, and control you? Shall your King? Shall your ministers? Maybe those worthless princes of Windsor?
Will you allow those sorts to "control" you?

The powerful and the elites of this world have nothing but disdain for the people, they are hostile to philosophy, and the enemy of republics and Liberty in general. They are the worst breed of self-absorbed hedonists this civilization has to offer.

Doesn't anyone understand what the American revolution was about? Locke? Rousseau? Socrates? Christ? Do you know those names? You pretend they never existed, that Liberty is something that is just a dream.

Why, exactly, do YOU need to be controlled, sir?

Arkaleus

Originally posted by infinite
Democracy does not work,
sorry, but the best way to rule a society without any problems is with a iron grip. Giving people freedom allows them to do anything they wish.

Man Stalin would have loved you. Anyone that has this type of iron grip control becomes corrupted, total control has been proven to much for any one man to have time and time again through history.

Originally posted by Arkaleus
Doesn't anyone understand what the American revolution was about? Locke? Rousseau? Socrates? Christ? Do you know those names? You pretend they never existed, that Liberty is something that is just a dream.

Arkaleus

What did Christ have to do with the American revolution! Oh wait..i forgot, America is God's choosen nation on this Earth...silly me for forgetting...

People need to be controlled, everybody knows that. Who should control us?? ermm...its a good question.

Society needs to be controlled, thats why we have different laws, religions,etc to keep us inline. The world would be chaos if we lived in Anarchy style societies.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Man Stalin would have loved you. Anyone that has this type of iron grip control becomes corrupted, total control has been proven to much for any one man to have time and time again through history.

Most monarchy rule across Europe had total control and some did prove to be pretty darn harsh, some were good.

Originally posted by infinite


What did Christ have to do with the American revolution! Oh wait..i forgot, America is God's choosen nation on this Earth...silly me for forgetting...

Society needs to be controlled, thats why we have different laws, religions,etc to keep us inline. The world would be chaos if we lived in Anarchy style societies.

Israel is God's chosen nation or so they claim Heck if I wrote the Bible I would make my people the chosen ones too.

I think your right about Anarchy style societies they would no doubt lead to Chaos. Some form of control will always be needed but the control should be applied with a feather not a 20 pound sledge hammer.

Christ was a philospher who praised the Liberty of Righteous men over the powers of the world. He advocated the supremacy of the righteous man over the laws of tyrants, nations, and religions. He was not a church-man. He was not a preist like your churches have in them. He was an architeect of Liberty.

Why are you so hostile, sir? You need to introduce yourself a bit and explain your philosophy to us so we can understand what you are saying.

Do you deny that Christ has had a great effect on the organization of western society for the past 2000 years? Do you think it odd that we include him in our studies of western society?

A very great error of modern non-religious people is that they want to divorce all religious men from their estimate of the world. All wise men are religious, and foolish men are incapable of it.

There is a tendancy in the NWO forum to discount and deny any philosophical or religious relationship to the matters of state and the world. That is a very modern corruption of intellect, and it comes from the violent persecution of all forms of spritual wisdom in the west in the public institutions. You sir, are the product of a system of intellectual self-anihillation.

Arky

United States of America. A country founded on great principles. However, somewhere along the lifeline of our country, something went terribly wrong.

Democracy is no longer the primary intent of our country. Our country is a corporation. It operates on a corporate structure, not principles. I mean is it typical for business men to run a country?

You are not seeing the light in the middle.

Why do you assume that Anarchy is the only other choice we have besides domination? What happened to enlightened Liberty? Are you familiar with any of these concepts? Or do you deny and discount them?

I cannot beleive that you call yourself a subject matter expert, but have no understanding of the various governments mankind has instituted among his nations. Government after all, is a construction of the people themselves, it does not arise from some other place. How then, is it rational to separate the two? Thus, like a body, it is best understood as a whole.

The conclusion of the rennaissance philosophers, who had the histories and stories of classical cultures, was that the best and most free government was that of the Republic, and this is also what Socrates argued for in his dialogues.

Unfortunately, a Republic is only viable is the citizenry is free and informed, and maintains a crucial level of education and reason. If the population becomes to greedy, material, or ignorant, it cannot maintain its Liberty. This is why Modern Democracy is a lie, the people cannot maintain it. It is impossible to crown swine with such glory.

Arkaleus.