Army finally admits "Toxic Leadership" to blame for mass veteran suicides

reply to post by six67seven


I quoted what was relevant based on the article title.

And I believe you were the one that asked:

Sorry but how does 20% toxicity result in the suicide numbers we see today?

And you went back and read the rest of the article and answered your own question. Maybe you should start with reading the info before posting a comment?

Wrabbit2000
So the NCO's are going to take the fall. The unit commanders and low level officers, if any, will be blamed.

While some NCOs may be toxic ... that should be an expectation considering what they have to work with.

The 'blame' started in the GO ranks and you know how crap runs downhill.

The military has been in a failed state since the Korean War. Being all politically correct has amplified the problem. You'll see a correction when the weak are thrown out because they're weak.

Let me ask you this: Why do you think there are full-time psychologists and psychiatrists treating 'active duty' personnel?

reply to post by Snarl

Let me ask you this:

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer this question anyway.

Why do you think there are full-time psychologists and psychiatrists treating 'active duty' personnel?

Because the military messes up people's minds, from the moment they sign on the line...

reply to post by Snarl

Let me ask you this: Why do you think there are full-time psychologists and psychiatrists treating 'active duty' personnel?

Straight answer? They are too short for warm, trained and experienced bodies to send back into the grinder to be turning out anyone actually willing or physically able to return and fight.

If any sense were being applied here.....men who showed clear psych issues or who BEGGED for help (Staff Sgt Bales, comes to mind) wouldn't be patronized and then sent back into the grind. They'd be taken off the line, treated out of the combat theater and then either discharged, given training billets to make their experience at least count for something, or returned to duty in those cases where it really was resolved and not just given a band-aid to look resolved.

Indeed.. We're producing broken people by sending them into the most insane activity mankind ever pursues ...over and over and over again. We're producing broken people by using them until they break.

I wonder what a study would show for Suicide rates among GIs compared to tours served in a combat zone? How many 1st tour returns eat their gun? How many 2nd and 3rd tour men? How many of the 6-8+ tour lifers end it that way? I'll bet the results from that, if taken in true good faith to see just what it came up with, would be informative.

reply to post by wildtimes

LOL ... not what I expected, but I can't argue the accuracy of your statement either. I'd like to see a case file where that was the specific issue being treated.

Still chuckling over your reply.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

And that's one mindset which perpetuates the problem.

If a Soldier has issues ... they're unfit to serve ... chapter 'em out (some people may recall that as a Section 8).

No need for time-wasting/expensive studies by the DoD. Let the Department of Veteran's Affairs do their jobs.

ETA: Sorry ... I'm in a toxic mood at the moment. Time for bed I guess.

If you want to win a war against a very big army.
first demoralize and destroy it.
obama is doing a Great job!

reply to post by wildtimes


Just to touch on the evangelical Christian point .... they are wrong, but they do have a point. There are numerous causes for PTSD on the battlefield. It can be caused by doing something terrible, that you know is wrong, and you did anyway. Other causes certainly can't be avoided and those pastors are simply disgusting and don't seem to have a firm grasp of the Bible, or psychology.

There is a lot of toxicity in anything run by the government, the army is certainly rife with it.

Let us not forget that the combat troops are handed out packages of legal, mind-altering drugs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors aka SSRIs) that contain up to 17 different psychoactive agents for "stressful situations." The packs contain 3-6 weeks supply of 35-40 different drugs like antibiotics, antihistamines, anti-fungals and such. They are handed out routinely according to a relative of mine who served in Baghdad as an ambulance driver/technician. He says that easily a quarter of their runs involved troops who had "emptied the pack."
How can this be safe? No agency or company has ever tested the interactions of that many medications in combinations.....I was absolutely floored to find out that his reports were accurate. I simply couldn't believe that they would hand out those kinds of medications in those amounts but when I contacted a good friend who was a physician with the National Guard for many, many years he confirmed it. He was bent beyond pretzel over it and had written numerous letters to authorities, all to no avail. "The drug companies love the opportunity for the introduction to thousands of potential life-long customers." was his final comment.
One of the listed side-effects of every one of the 17 psychotropics being handed out is: Increased suicide ideation when compared to placebo.
Personally, I think the chemicals going into the soldiers have more to do with the suicide rate than some nasty officers.

anyone got the data for other countries veteran suicide ratio ?

how the brits handling their vets ? whats the percentage of british suicide from iraq/afghan ?

which service got higher suicide rate ? army ? marines ?