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Has the coup occurred already?

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posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by Mon1k3r
 


Ok.. no problem.

I say this because I have worked on several designs of Submarines from the olde 637
or Sturgeon class, to the Los Angeles or 688 class and also the newer Virginia
class boats. Also boomer type boats as well.

Here is something for you to consider when one engages in all this fancy talk
about tunnels under the USA.

Large tunnels for submarines are prohibitively expensive as well as impractical.
This simply because it is known that the west coast of this country is more
unstable than the East coast. Earthquake activicy alone would make this impractical.

I have engaged in many a drydocking and undocking of submarines as well as
Aircraft carriers. When a boat or surface ship is brought into a narrow confine
such as a drydock or tunnel if you like...the ship or boat is brought close
under tugboat power..not ships power. When she gets close and into the drydock
lines are brought out and she is pulled into the dock where with these same lines she is also carefully guided over the blocks on the bottom of the drydock.
This must be carefully done so as not to cover up important hull openings which
must be needed to be open when in drydock.

The ship or boat is going much to slow to have any maneuvering power or water flow over her planes or rudders. This would also be the case of a boat maneuvering in a tunnel..under a continent. Or in a tunnel on the surface. She would have to have lines towing her through the tunnel. It would be highly unsafe to run down a tunnel with sufficient speed to have flow control over a rudder to maneuver. You see!!??
This tow line configuration would be impractical for mile and miles in a tunnel.
Tow lines is what you see at the panama canal...towing ships through the locks by small diesel electric trains. The panama canal at the locks is basically an open tunnel
if you like.
You do not run a submarine down a narrow tunnel and scrape the sides of the
tunnel because you would be scraping the rubberized tiles off the sides
of the submarine. The navy spends huge amounts of monies on these noise quieting tiles.

Well ..we are getting a bit off topic..but it is some informations to consider when
you next debate these points with others.

Thanks,
Orangetom




posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Awesome post.

Those are things I did not know about submarines. I'm more with you than against you on the idea, I guess I'm about 80/20 on the it's a bunch of crap side, but still, I would not be surprised. Truth has been stranger than fiction, at least for me, for a long time now.



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 03:12 PM
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Mon1k3r
reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Awesome post.

Those are things I did not know about submarines. I'm more with you than against you on the idea, I guess I'm about 80/20 on the it's a bunch of crap side, but still, I would not be surprised. Truth has been stranger than fiction, at least for me, for a long time now.


I agree Mon1k3r,

Sometimes truth is indeed stranger than fiction. Occasionally one sees strange things in
this shipyard. Also transiting down this river at night.

The other thing to factor in about tunnels is that they are a confined space.

When one is trained to do confined space work..one becomes quickly aware how fast one can pass out from unbreathable air filling a void. Safety departments have access to a host of these kinds of incidents. Tank work onboard a ship is a textbook example
of working in a confined space and many people have lost their lives working inside tanks onboard a ship or submarine. And a submarine is a floating/sinkable tank.
Tunnels are exactly this kind of tank or confined space.
This means ventilation must needs be provided to prevent being overtaken by
unbreathable air. This also means an extensive power source to power up ventilation
blowers. Not a small task in miles and miles of tunnel..but absolutely necessary.
When you lose breathable air...in a confined space you pass out very quickly as if someone has thrown a light switch. Most dont live long enough to get the switch turned to the on position. Those who go into this space to help often meet the same fate.

As I said..safety departments often have access to lots of these incidents documented
and for which most of the public never sees or knows.
The utility guys working under the streets..you often see blower tubes going into the
man hole cover openings. This is textbook confined space work.

Well ..I believe you get the idea here. It is very dangerous and can be deadly if not properly handled and respected. Same thing in a tunnel.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 05:22 PM
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whitewave
reply to post by RedFunfzhen
 


Still, no matter what power cabal is operating behind the scenes, there can be no doubt that the benefits to the American people have been significantly reduced of late.


For sure. I'm 41 for reference, and just in my adult life of the last couple of decades, there appears to be a bit of an acceleration of the process. As thought every piece they get in place, every freedom they remove, hastens the completion of the next steps of The Plan, whatever that plan actually is. Again, my personal belief is that a worldwide China Model is what we are being pushed into, which, naturally, would include a much more restrictive internet on many levels.


I've been a CT "nutjob" since I was a teen proclaiming even then that, should we continue on our current path, we would see many of the very things that we currently see and was told year after year, "It'll never happen. The people won't allow it". Apparently the people WILL allow it.


They, whomever they may be, never doubted it, though. As I just mentioned in another thread, They have a profound understanding of human nature, coupled with generational patience. Whatever setbacks The American Revolution, The Civil War, Lincoln and his Greenbacks were to Them, they have the power, patience and knowledge to overcome those setbacks over the course of time.


There has been a serious uptick in looting the treasures (or shifting them from communal pockets into private pockets) since corporations were given the same rights and recognition of individual sovereignty as the American citizen.


That phrase I bolded caught my eye since I referred to some activities occurring in OK around the Civil War. I have personally never seen National Treasure 2. I do know that the subject of the KGC and buried treasure is in the plot, though. The KGC was a real organization:

en.wikipedia.org...

Not using wikipedia as any type of proof, merely an overview of the KGC. This post would be too long, so I'll do another post about the KGC as it relates to the question you posed in the thread title, as the KGC is accused, by some, to be deeply involved in the coup, and have been long before Hollywood decided to do a movie about them.


There are a few videos online from the former director of the IRS (a woman whose name escapes me at this late hour) claiming that 100% of our income tax goes somewhere other than into the American coffers. I believe the stats were 40% to British bankers (not to Britain but to the bankers) and that 60% goes to the Vatican.


The Grace Commission concluded in the early 80's:

With two thirds of everyone’s personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the federal debt and by federal government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services [that] taxpayers expect from their government

I believe, at this point , and subject to revision upon further thought and evidence, is that the British Crown does get some portion of this money, facilitated, obviously by the Federal Reserve that also gets their cut. The Queen of England is anything but the powerless, ceremonial figurehead that is portrayed. There is a reason we, in America, get overwhelmed through the Media when her son and grandson get married. There is a reason her face is on the money of our friends to the North, that the British Military is officaily titled as Her's, as it sure the hell is.

I actually have given up paying any attention to current events, as I think trying to 'stop' anything as far as the path we are on is futile.

And that is by design. For me, the key to stopping Them lies in digging up the past ...
edit on 15-1-2014 by RedFunfzhen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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RedFunfzhen

And that is by design. For me, the key to stopping Them lies in digging up the past ...


This caught my eye. Can't read. Running late.

I agree, and would like to discuss later, thank you.



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 06:20 PM
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A preface before I get onto the KGC and their purported connection and involvement to the 'coup of America', what we are loosley talking about here - the coup of America as The Constitution is supposed to guarantee it for us and protect us from overreaching government, etc.:

Everything I am going to relate was believed by a certain 'niche' of Conspiracy Theorists long before any of the National Treasure movies. Hollywood borrowed that plot from the Conspiracy Theorists/Treasure Hunters, not vice versa. I personally have not seen either movie, but know the second one deals with the KGC. So, no, those movies have nothing to do with exsistence of the Conspiracy Theory I am going to layout in this post about the KGC.

That wiki page I linked to laid out, at the bottom, the first layer of the Conspiracy is outlined on that page at the bottom. Namely that the KGC did not go away, but instead was working to institute a second Civil War, with ultimate goals being a new Slave Nation including southeastern and southwestern US, Mexico, The Carribean and Cuba. Also, the link to Jesse James. Quantrill's Raiders are also tied to the KGC, as well as Jesse.

A Slave Nation whose territory formed a circle, if you look at it on a map, hence the name Knights of The Golden Circle.

Personally, what stock I do place in the KGC as it relates to Them, the creation of this slave nation via a second Civil War is not part of it. I do not think this is what the KGC was up to, but I suspect them of being up to something. But, the majority of people that beleive the KGC continued on after the Civil War, believe the wiki version.

Enter the sub-culture of the Treasure Hunter. The second Civil War would cost money. So, the story goes that what Jesse and his boys were doing were going around creating caches of weapons and gold. Burying money in the ground to be retrieved at some point in the future when needed. There are people looking for those caches today, believing they exist.

I believe there is a little more than that though. I'll lay out more in the next post ...
edit on 15-1-2014 by RedFunfzhen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 06:38 PM
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There are documented treasure stories in the southwest, and it is a huge topic, too much to give an overview in a post. But, I am going to quote from a book titled New Mexico Confidential: 30 Years of Snooping in Obscure Places by Stephen D Clark. Trying to figure out what is going on, as it is obvious to many of us that there is, indeed, sumpin' goin' on involves looking at many things. I consider this book a great introduction into some things that need to be looked into by Conspiracy Theorists, way more than the majority currently is doing.

From the book regarding the KGC:

The author's understanding of the alleged secret organization is incomplete and subject to revision. The following statements are based on personal interviews, observations and experiences.



  • Political and economic control of most of the world has been in the hands of an elite group for millennia. The world's people are unaware of their existence
  • Gold is considered the world's most stable store of wealth and preferred medium of exchange.
  • There have been significant caches of gold in North America for millennia.
  • The American Civil War was engineered and financed by the European elite in an effort to gain control of America's gold supply and her economic, therefore political, sovereignty.
  • The 'Organization', in existence for millennia, created an alliance with both Confedereate Underground and influential UNionists in 1863 in order to begin collecting and securing the nation's gold supply.
  • The 'Organization's' members include America's most capable and influential people - political, military, financial, industrial, scientific, religious, Masonic, etc.
  • The Organization operates complertely autonomously from the elected United States government.
  • The Organization relies on bloodline, blood oath and loyalty to maintain complete secrecy and support a belief system and objectives that outlive their members.
  • The Organization's members, particularly on the lower levels, are unaware of the actions of those above them or parallel to them.
  • The Organization removed a significant amount of the nation's gold from circualtion between 1863 and 1933 and secured it in numerous locations in North America.
  • Prominent American capitalists, bankers, miners, industrialists, railroaders, even outlaws - Organization members - contributed much of their personal welath, in gold, to the cause.
  • Most of the bank and train robberies committed during the period were done to collect gold for the cause.
  • In the American West, nearly all of the 'lost mine', 'Spanish gold' and 'hidden treasure' legends that surfaced during the period were coded messages hiding information pertaining to the Organization's activities.
  • Many of the caches were relocated following the Gold Confiscation Act of 1933, which made possession of US gold coins illegal. Many tons of coins were melted and cast into bullion bars that were concealed in new caches, spawning new 'lost treasure legends' to record their locations.
  • The locations of the caches were marked by an unsolvable code of rock-carvings, tree manipulations, cemetery inscriptions, metal objects, survey monuments, coded publications, public works projects and other methods designed by some of the world's most brilliant minds.
  • The caches remain intact, perhaps awaiting a global economic failure, at which time they will be recovered and the Organization will exercise their possession of the gold to assume economic and political control of North America.
  • It's not known if the Organization are the 'good guys' or the 'bad guys,' or if there are such things; or if there are, whether there is any difference between them


There ya go. Another potential thought process concerning coups in America. Enjoy ...



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 07:17 PM
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Well, when I asked if the coup had already occurred, the right people certainly showed up to answer it.

Great info and connecting of dots to the KGC. Do you suppose the circle has been enlarged to include a
greater number of us in it?

I know of a guy who is actively seeking those treasures of which you speak. I think one could devote a life
time to the effort and never be rewarded but I guess it's a lifestyle thing.

As a nation, we have had quite a while to enjoy nearly unbridled freedoms and liberties with astonishingly
positive and productive results. I wonder if "they" have ever reconsidered the end game seeing as how we
have so enriched them and fulfilled their every goal for them; more so in America and via the freedoms ensured
by our constitution than anywhere else in the world. I'm sure there's some plan to keep a few of
the brighter minds (scientists and such) but, with all the mysterious deaths surrounding microbiologists right
before some new strain of something appears on the global scene, even the best and brightest may not be
exempt from the culling.

I can only look at the global madness being exhibited right now and conclude that it is by design. I agree
that "they" know human nature all too well and manipulate it masterfully. And I agree that they are patient.
If they had not shown themselves to be such megalomaniacal murdering psychopaths, one could almost applaud
their skills and patient stratagems.

*caution: personal opinion* I believe that the "war" is a spiritual one, the theater in which it is fought is a
political one and the weapons of warfare are economic in nature.



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by RedFunfzhen
 


Just noticed your registration date. Welcome to ATS!



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by RedFunfzhen
 



With two thirds of everyone’s personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the federal debt and by federal government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services [that] taxpayers expect from their government


Agree with this assessment and will add to it.
I have noted over the years that there seems to be no real need for a individual income tax on peoples labors or work as it is being done today. This was never intended as a tax on peoples labors.

What it seems to be is a tax on peoples consumption rates. For the purpose of
controlling and regulating what people can consume in an economy.

What clued me into this was a document many years ago from the Federal Reserve
Bank of St. Louis called "The National Debt."
In this document they declared that the federal government has the ability
to print money unlimited.
What I did not understand back then was that if they could print money unlimited
why did they need our monies??

Over the years the answer has finally occurred to me. If they did not tax the
money away from us...the money would rapidly go to its real intrinsic value...Zero!!

At the same time in a rigged marketplace...the people had to be limited in
their ability to outspend the government...or against government largess in
the economy.

There is only one economy out here...and several groups are purchasing out of
it but only one is taking RISK in laboring for it. The American People.

The Government on a federal level or whoever or whatever is the federal goverment
looks upon the people of this nation as competitors in this economy..
Competitors for goods and services against an ever increasing money supply.
To give the money a value it would never acheive on its own..it must be
removed from circulation..in this same economy. But the government is never
limited in it's expendatures..only the people of the nation are going to be limited.

You can tell this when as the years go by you eat more macaroni and less beefsteak.
Economic choices are choices in liberty and freedom.

I believe that of recent... rather than raise income taxes ..the increase has been hidden from us
as a health care tax or fee. This is how the plan is going to go to remove more competiting monies from the private sector of the nation and people.
It was hidden quickly from the public that the health care was a system of
taxes when it reached the Supreme Court.

I understood that it was a tax..from the beginning..the only question to me was
how was it going to be apportioned?? This is where the federal government
absolutely did not want to go and took great pains to keep this out of
the public view and understanding.

Once you understand that the government or whoever is todays government of the USA..looks upon us as competitors in the marketplace..in every way and manner...many of their strange conducts begins to make sense. Same thing for the news media. Same thing for public education principles and goals.

I have been given to suspect and very strongly ..that this is why history is a very
poorly taught subject today. That most of us will be unable to connect the dots
to what people knew and understood in times past and instead substitute
emotions and entitlement beliefs for thinking and understanding.

Enough for now,
Orangetom



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by RedFunfzhen
 




■The American Civil War was engineered and financed by the European elite in an effort to gain control of America's gold supply and her economic, therefore political, sovereignty.


Gold or Silver in private hands has always given economic power to the ordinary people.
It also insures, when fixed, a stable money value..a storehouse of value.
Gold and silver in private hands also removes alot of intrusive power from the central government as they must make good on their obligations and thus leave the people to
their private lives for they cannot finance their intrusiveness into our lives.




■The 'Organization', in existence for millennia, created an alliance with both Confedereate Underground and influential UNionists in 1863 in order to begin collecting and securing the nation's gold supply.


I too have come to this conclusion...that this group or groups have been around for a long time..perhapsed going back to the first great civilizatations in the Middle East and North Africa.
I do know that the KGC worked both sides of the Civil War..on the North as well as the South. There appear to be other groups and organizations who worked with them..
inside and outside the Americas. There appeared to be lots of European interference
in the American Civil war..but much of this informations seems to be
missing from most public education today.
I believe this knowledge of European interference is why Emperor Maximillian in
Mexico was hastened to his demise..because of European Inteference in the
American Civil War.




■The 'Organization's' members include America's most capable and influential people - political, military, financial, industrial, scientific, religious, Masonic, etc.

This too was a surprise for me to discover. My first inclination that this was true was a book by a fellow most think was crazy and the media seemed to take great efforts
to paint him so..but when I saw in his books how many interconnecting families
there were here in American and Canada..I felt that the author was on to
something. His name was Lyndon LaRouche.

"Dope Incorporated"

While I have no particular affilliation with the LaRouche movement I have noted
that the patterns of what he spoke in his books seems to be valid about many
of the big families and businesses in both this nation and Canada and going back into the 1700s.


■The Organization operates complertely autonomously from the elected United States government.


Agree with this assessment and also will add that the Organization on occasion seems
to be able to give marching orders to the US Government and the Government is their
boot lacky to do their bidding and protect their international investments when they go bad..like in Iraq.


■The Organization relies on bloodline, blood oath and loyalty to maintain complete secrecy and support a belief system and objectives that outlive their members.


I too am noting this and it goes way back into history...the secrecy and blood family ties..internationally. Like Whitewave..I believe their is a spiritual side to this and that it is a secret and devout/zealous religious belief system and very olde.
For some of us who know ..this is part of "The Ever War" and is still going on.
Most are totally unaware of it going on and it is cultivated to so be.


■The Organization's members, particularly on the lower levels, are unaware of the actions of those above them or parallel to them.

Agree again and this pattern too..goes way back into history ..for milleniums. It is designed to be this way.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 11:05 AM
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If I'm understanding everyone correctly...there was never any need for a coup as such because we the people never really had any say in our government to start with.
Orangetom mentions that this pattern of subtlety has been ongoing for millennia, always increasing steps towards a predetermined goal and RedFunfzhen points out evidence of this pattern. The lack of ensuring our freedoms (which is the stated function of our government) and the increasing loss of liberties seem to indicate that the end goal is rapidly approaching. Is it even possible to stop this tyrannical march toward global enslavement?



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 11:22 AM
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th3dudeabides
reply to post by whitewave
 


I'm not sure about this from what I've read.


From what I've read about this situation, some guy just bought California and is dividing it up. Almost sounds like a corporate take-over and then selling off the company for parts.


What basis do you have for asserting California was bought up and is being sold off piecemeal.


You buy the State, you assume the debt as well. The whole idea is ridiculous. The original guy who posted this should be a bit more discerning in the source of his reading material. How could anyone believe that California has been sold? LOL



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by whitewave
 


It didn't hit the fan immediately


Bringing up the election controversy again, the president said, ''By the time it was over, our candidate had won the popular vote, and the only way they could win the election was to stop the voting in Florida.''


It's been spiraling downward ever since?


edit on (1/16/1414 by loveguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 12:49 PM
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orangetom1999

For it is not much taught in public schools compared to the sanitized and authorized version of Lincoln.


The American Public Education system is a joke. And that is by design. Folks like the Rockefellers have seen to that. That topic is a pretty big one, as well as part of The Plan. We don't educate and create critical thinkers. Rather, it is training. Job skills/social skills training/social & political indoctrination, not true education. The US outspends everyone, yet ranks poorly for those expenditures.

For the YouTube inclined here is a search page for Charolette Iserbyt: www.youtube.com...

She has some interesting credentials, including working for the Dept. of Education and a father who was Skull & Bones. She is also a pretty smart cookie, when you listen to her.

Control of the Education system and dumbing down of America is most definitely a component of whitewave's coup.


There appears to be a dual Occult or hidden system at work here...a system for insiders and a system for the rest of us. But we are to think there is only one 'system in operation. A dual system is a system of Royalty..Feudalism...and we are back to England and the Continental system of doing business. The Royals, the Priesthood, and the serfs.


For me, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is a fact. I am in no way ashamed to label myself a Conspiracy Theorist. Conspiracies are a real thing and run from the mundane to the profound. And Theories are, according to Google: ...Typically, a theory is developed through the use of contemplative and rational forms of abstract and generalized thinking.

Funny how the skeptics seem to want to hold me and others to a higher standard than other contemplative disciplines. We are not allowed to extrapolate, or provide circumstantial evidence, etc.

While the skeptic uses such mechanisms in constructing their perception of reality and worldview, they'll deny folks like me those same mechanisms if my conclusions differ from theirs. It's quite the double standard.

Like many other things, that is by design, as well - societies ingrained reaction to somebody suggesting things aren't quite what they seem and there may be no small amount of hanky-panky going on behind the scenes. Namely that they are a Conspiracy Theorist, a nutjob, a quack, et

Hell yea there is worldwide conspiracy going on. And I believe it to be quite sophisticated and grand in scope, as well as being in place for a long time. Large amounts of evidence are hidden in plain sight, right in front of everyone, yet when one points this out, the skeptics claim a coincidence or, "Yea, but it doesn't really mean anything," in a dismissive way, etc.



I have heard the same thing about Adolph Hitler..that he too excaped and
lived out his live until the late 1970s where he died on one of the Indonesian
Islands where he was carrying on as a doctor.


Not to presume you don't know, but Operation Paperclip was a real operation. The Vatican had its hands all over it and it involved smuggling out the top Nazi scientists, including folks like Werhner von Braun, who helped found NASA. von Braun was whitewashed and sold to the American public. The dude was a hardcore Nazi, as well as deeply steeped in the occult. The whole Nazi thing was bathed in Saturnalia.

Further, when the CIA was born out the WWII OSS, it was Prescott Bush, father and grandfather of the Bush Presidents, and the Dulles brothers who set it up. They consulted high ranking Gestapo folks for how to set up an effective intelligence agency. In addition, what is a fact and not debatable, is that during WWII, Prescott Bush got in trouble with FDR for violating the Trading With The Enemies Act, by setting up financing for Hitler through Union Bank.

Hitler was financed out of New York and London. Germany was devestated, economically, by WWI and the Treaty of Versaille. Yet, somehow, a few short years later, he had an incredible and incredibly expensive war machine built. The current Queen of England has the throne because her uncle abdicated around WWII. The lie foisted upon the public was that he gave up the throne for love, but the real reason was to get him out of the spotlight, as he was a supporter of Hitler. The Bilderberg group was started by Prince Bernhard - who was a member of the Nazi Party.

I'm longwinded and can talk about this stuff all day. And it is ALL related. Everything I have mentioned, plus whitewave's question s/he pose for discussion. Sorry if I am just wasting space in people's monitors with a bunch of long posts ...


Very interesting what one learns when one works outside the official releases or versions of history...from the Egyptians to the Greeks and Romans unto today.


Indeed. And I consider it subject (a full understanding and critical review of 'official' History) of utmost importance for anyone who has come to conclusions similar to mine - namely that there is something going on. Like, really going on. And it is large, well entrenched, well established and operated by people who have centuries, at the very least, of experience of knowing how to screw with us.

And those [Insert profanity here] are keeping much Historical knowledge from us. Very important and profound Historical knowledge ...
edit on 16-1-2014 by RedFunfzhen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 12:50 PM
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whitewave
If I'm understanding everyone correctly...there was never any need for a coup as such because we the people never really had any say in our government to start with.
Orangetom mentions that this pattern of subtlety has been ongoing for millennia, always increasing steps towards a predetermined goal and RedFunfzhen points out evidence of this pattern. The lack of ensuring our freedoms (which is the stated function of our government) and the increasing loss of liberties seem to indicate that the end goal is rapidly approaching. Is it even possible to stop this tyrannical march toward global enslavement?


Whitewave,
My read of history is that these organizations occasionally fight each other. This is not
how it reads in the history books but many of these competing organizations were involved in WW1 and WW2...and the wars going back in Europe..in the 1840 and again in the 1870s.
They appeared to want the cotton crop of the south in the American Civil war and initially backed the south against the north in the division of the union. It was partially the Czar of Russia who loaned his fleet to the Union forces for the blockade of the south which helped turn the tide against the south.
As I am given to understand it ..when the war was over ..Lincoln stated that we have now defeated England for the third time. And France was aiding England in
building ships for the south and blockade running.

What I note in history is that these groups occasionally turn on each other ...either by design or by friction.
Their ancient goal seems to be "The absolute mastery of everything" as it states in some of their books. And they seem to accomplish this by "Chaos Management."

I attribute the massive inflation in Mexico in the 1970s to the early 1980s to this careful manipulations of currency values. When it happened it went very rapidly.
I am given to ask...by the read of history and previous occurences of this type..how many in Mexico lost everything to the manipulators for pennies on the dollar so to speak.

In otherwords..these people organizations turn on each other on occasion. What they do not appear to do is tell on each other to outsiders..to the Profane and outer world.

What I suspect is that this government, as originally set up, showed great promise in breaking away from the Royal/Feudal control system which is at the root of what we are discussing.

This difference in the original set up of this government used to be taught to people in public schools as to the difference and why it was so done. The very words..
"Mr President" verses Your Highness et al. This is not accidental.
But today...this has been quietly and privily changed as these groups have moved
in and manipulated the courts and other government organizations, including schools, to bring back this feudal/royal system without most being aware of it.

And in most of history the feudal/royal systems were held together on the inside by a religious belief..a devout religious belief to which most of the public were not privy.
A dual system ..one for the insiders and the other for the Profane.

We are obviously returning to this system in the workings of our government as we
go away from Constitutional protections and to statutes at equity or Admiraly Maritime Law. The law of the merchants ..the corporations..the new royalty.

My read of much of history in the time of enlightenment workings..in the last 100 to 150 years is corporations and businesses maneuvering for trade routes..for resources,
for profits. This is still going on today ..some call it a Resource War.
These corporations and businesses, like the Crown, have maneuvered by maneuvering governments. The governments and these militaries are fronts for them though we are beginning to see some presence of private militias by the corporations.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 12:52 PM
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Mon1k3r

I agree, and would like to discuss later, thank you.


Well, c'mon back when you get some time.



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 03:51 PM
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whitewave
If I'm understanding everyone correctly...there was never any need for a coup as such because we the people never really had any say in our government to start with.
Orangetom mentions that this pattern of subtlety has been ongoing for millennia, always increasing steps towards a predetermined goal and RedFunfzhen points out evidence of this pattern. The lack of ensuring our freedoms (which is the stated function of our government) and the increasing loss of liberties seem to indicate that the end goal is rapidly approaching. Is it even possible to stop this tyrannical march toward global enslavement?


In the early days I believe there was a need to do this and quietly and privily reinstitute the olde systems of Feudalism. We see this maneuvering leading up to a Civil war...though the powers were maneuvering in this direction with the War of 1812 to bring us back into the fold.

Since that time we have had attempts to privily bring us back in as the direct method does not seem to work on a nation as big as ours. One way to do this is enconomic disaster by war...by civil war. This too did not work out.

By 1899 or so..our government secretly bought into the feudal mess by going to war with Spain and now we secretly and privily gave up the Monroe Doctrine and began operating outside the Western Hemisphere. This is how we found ourselves suddenly in the PHilippines and in China going to war for the international powers to protect their Opium monopoly in China. We have done their bidding ever since.

Most to America today does not even know what was in the Monroe Doctrine.

It was openly then..about 1898/1899 that we visibly began to operate internationally ..followed by The Great White Fleet ..to join the World Doctrine and have been progressing down this road ever since.

It is accelerating rapidly now to close all the doors to escape...and total control.
Most young people know almost none of this history today...instead knowing every new gadget and consumer good coming down the de evolutionary pipeline. But very little history do they know..even the history of their own family line.

This was what I meant some time back when I posted what the olde man stated
when he returned from WW1 to read in a paper..that we were fighting for
Democracy. He knew back then that thieves had stolen his country. He knew
alot more than people of today.

Must make haste now Whitewave.
Thanks to all for their posts.
Orangetom



posted on Jan, 16 2014 @ 11:56 PM
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The American Public Education system is a joke. And that is by design. Folks like the Rockefellers have seen to that. That topic is a pretty big one, as well as part of The Plan. We don't educate and create critical thinkers. Rather, it is training. Job skills/social skills training/social & political indoctrination, not true education. The US outspends everyone, yet ranks poorly for those expenditures.


Nelson Rockefeller and 3 of his siblings were basically illiterate, having been trained in the new (at the time) progressive education system.
This is a man who ran for political office but who could not read the speeches written for him and came across as the idiot he was. This type of assault on our education originated with John Dewey in 1898.

The simple truth is that a plan to dumb-down the American people was hatched in 1898 by John Dewey, the socialist educator, who persuaded his fellow socialists that the only way to change America from an individualistic society to a collectivist one was to dumb-down the American people. The easiest way to do it was to change the way reading is taught in our schools. Their plan was to get rid of the traditional phonics method that produces high literacy and replace it with a whole-word method that teaches American children to read English as if it were Chinese

Dewey further suggested that such a dumbing down of American children be done slowly so as to gain acceptance and to prevent a violent reaction from those recognizing the conspiracy against our youth. A people who know their history are less prone to repeat the same mistakes but, as the shadow government likes to recycle the same forms of tyranny, we have not been properly educated. In order to have a child for 6 hours a day, 9 months a year, for 12 of his formative years and produce an adult who can not read and write his own name is a strong indicator that there is a deliberate plan in place to actively prevent the child from learning.


Funny how the skeptics seem to want to hold me and others to a higher standard than other contemplative disciplines. We are not allowed to extrapolate, or provide circumstantial evidence, etc. While the skeptic uses such mechanisms in constructing their perception of reality and worldview, they'll deny folks like me those same mechanisms if my conclusions differ from theirs. It's quite the double standard. Like many other things, that is by design, as well - societies ingrained reaction to somebody suggesting things aren't quite what they seem and there may be no small amount of hanky-panky going on behind the scenes. Namely that they are a Conspiracy Theorist, a nutjob, a quack, etc.


Belittling, deflecting, projection, ad hominem attacks are all strategies used by people with weak arguments, weak characters, and abusive personalities. Holding their feet to the fire to force an answer from these double-standard, double-speaking manipulators is one way to expose them for their true selves and intentions. It's also probably a good way to "have an accident".


Operation Paperclip was a real operation. The Vatican had its hands all over it and it involved smuggling out the top Nazi scientists, including folks like Werhner von Braun, who helped found NASA. von Braun was whitewashed and sold to the American public. The dude was a hardcore Nazi, as well as deeply steeped in the occult. The whole Nazi thing was bathed in Saturnalia.

Further, when the CIA was born out the WWII OSS, it was Prescott Bush, father and grandfather of the Bush Presidents, and the Dulles brothers who set it up. They consulted high ranking Gestapo folks for how to set up an effective intelligence agency. In addition, what is a fact and not debatable, is that during WWII, Prescott Bush got in trouble with FDR for violating the Trading With The Enemies Act, by setting up financing for Hitler through Union Bank.

Hitler was financed out of New York and London. Germany was devestated, economically, by WWI and the Treaty of Versaille. Yet, somehow, a few short years later, he had an incredible and incredibly expensive war machine built. The current Queen of England has the throne because her uncle abdicated around WWII. The lie foisted upon the public was that he gave up the throne for love, but the real reason was to get him out of the spotlight, as he was a supporter of Hitler. The Bilderberg group was started by Prince Bernhard - who was a member of the Nazi Party.


There's a great deal of evidence showing that communism was financed by some very powerful Americans at the time. I think that TPTB needed an antithesis to the thesis of a constitutional republic in order to guide us all into the synthesis of global government.


I'm longwinded and can talk about this stuff all day. And it is ALL related. Everything I have mentioned, plus whitewave's question she pose for discussion. Sorry if I am just wasting space in people's monitors with a bunch of long posts ...


I, for one, am very much enjoying your learned contribution as well as Orangetom. It's refreshing to find intelligent, educated people on ATS capable of carrying on a discussion with measured emotional response and well-considered replies.


I consider the subject (a full understanding and critical review of 'official' History) of utmost importance for anyone who has come to conclusions similar to mine - namely that there is something going on. Like, really going on. And it is large, well entrenched, well established and operated by people who have centuries, at the very least, of experience of knowing how to screw with us.


And this is why I think the "coup" has already occurred. There are a few Americans who are waking up to realize they are wearing a blindfold and are being led up steps to have a rope tied around their necks but we are way too late to fight for a different outcome than the one that is planned for us.


edit on 17-1-2014 by whitewave because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 12:04 AM
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Whitewave:

I know of a guy who is actively seeking those treasures of which you speak. I think one could devote a life
time to the effort and never be rewarded but I guess it's a lifestyle thing.


I'm just some random knucklehead you don't know so take it for what it is worth, but if you have occasional contact with this friend, regardless of whether he is a hobbiest about it or a little more serious, he won't regret the few dollars spent on that book if you forward him that title and he happens to look into it and buy it.

Sorry about throwing a bunch of long posts out there in your thread, I don't mean to clutter it up or hijack it - I obviously connect a lot of dots in all of this mess surrounding your OP, and this kind of stuff simply cannot be discussed in a few short sentences. Thanks for the welcome, btw.


If I'm understanding everyone correctly...there was never any need for a coup as such because we the people never really had any say in our government to start with.


Well, I obviously only speak for myself and am often clear as mud when I do so. The only thing I know for certain, in the sense of being totally convinced, is the existence of a Conspiracy on a grand scale. And I am pretty sure it is old. And I lean towards it being of an insidious nature.

I mentioned that in the last few years, I have pretty much given up following current events. I believe much of it to be a designed distraction to suck people's attention away from what they really need to focus on and think about, in addition to whatever other objectives they are achieving.

The real questions for me, the ones that I devote large amounts of time pondering and researching, including walking around in the middle of nowhere looking for evidence of KGC-type activities, are:


  • Who the %$!# is at the top of the pyramid?
  • What is their ultimate goal(s)?
  • What Spiritual knowledge might they be hiding and/or using against us?
  • What Historical knowledge are they keeping from us?


These questions are quite literally the single subject that occupies the majority of my thought process and brain power, limited as it may be, throughout my waking hours.

In addition to the traditional type research, there are physical clues, tangible things that can be located/recovered/photographed/documented/etc. to serve as evidence for groups like the KGC and their activities of a conspiratorial nature, who are not the top of the pyramid. That's a pretty serious pursuit of mine.


I too have come to this conclusion...that this group or groups have been around for a long time..perhapsed going back to the first great civilizatations in the Middle East and North Africa.


Yea, there comes a point in researching it all when whatever particular subject one first begins researching, say The Federal Reserve, or the reasons behind the Civil War, inevitably whatever door they initially opened leads the resolute, non-dogmatic researcher down one helluva long, dark hallway, with plenty of other doors and side passages. And it's an old, old hallway, IMO.

And there is some weird stuff behind some of those doors in that hallway.

Concerning how far back in time, well, regardless of whether or not one is religious or what particular religion one may practice, there sure seems to be plenty of evidence, certainly an abundance of anecdotal and circumstantial evidence, that suggests some type of planet wide cataclysmic event. I lean towards accepting that something like that occurred, be it a Flood, Astroid strike, etc.

The worldwide megalithic structures are obvious proof of lost technologies and knowledge. I think the current power structure goes back to at least immediately after this event, if it occurred.


I do know that the KGC worked both sides of the Civil War..on the North as well as the South. There appear to be other groups and organizations who worked with them..
inside and outside the Americas.


According to the thought process of that book I quoted, the KGC was merely the name of the branch that was doing the field work out here in the southwest and elsewhere. Jesse James was said to be the senior officer in the field. There is certainly more to that dude than what Hollywood has shown us.

As it relates to the Conspiracy Theory and the cache of substantial amounts of bullion, the KGC was purported to be the organization that operated out in the field, placing, guarding and relocating these caches from the 1860's to the 1940's, at which point, another branch, under another name, has taken over the field security of the caches.

Incidentally, some of the larger caches are believed to be in National Parks, Wilderness Areas or under reservoirs, making recovery virtually impossible, even if the location is discovered by someone not part of the Plan.

And of course, the KGC was a masonic organization with Albert Pike involved.


There appeared to be lots of European interference
in the American Civil war. but much of this informations seems to be
missing from most public education today.


The History of North America of the last several centuries and up through the present is nothing but European interference. Most of the history of the Spanish and Vatican in the southwest is completely absent from our schools. The number of Native Americans in the southwest and Mexico enslaved by the Spanish Crown and Vatican was in the millions. Taos, NM, location of the Taos Fair, was a slave trading hotspot. There was a lot of asset stripping, in the form of mining, where that slave labor was used.

Central and South America were anything but spared.

I believe this knowledge of European interference is why Emperor Maximillian in
Mexico was hastened to his demise..because of European Inteference in the
American Civil War.

'Ol Maximillion, an Austrian Hapsburg-Lorraine (the Lorraine Cross is an important symbol). He had some treasures with him, as well. One take puts his stash in Victorio Peak in New Mexico, which is now part of a Military base. That is a well documented treasure story (like major newspapers up through the 1990's), one that the well known lawyer F. Lee Bailey was involved with at one point.

It is also speculated by some that the KGC helped get Maxillion north before he was executed, in addition to his personal gold, jewels, and other pompous royal crap.


This too was a surprise for me to discover. My first inclination that this was true was a book by a fellow most think was crazy and the media seemed to take great efforts
to paint him so..but when I saw in his books how many interconnecting families
there were here in American and Canada..I felt that the author was on to
something. His name was Lyndon LaRouche.


We live in a society that puts people on Death Row, sometimes with nothing but or at least a preponderance of the case being comprised of mostly circumstantial evidence. Yet, when folks like us point to sometimes large and overwhelming amounts of evidence, complete with physical exhibits, we experience a double standard.

One thing I try to do, and encourage others to do as well, is to NOT THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER. I say that because I have a huge divergence of opinion with LaRouche when it comes to FDR - people can quibble if there ever was, but there certainly wasn't a President in the 20th Century that wasn't a part of it all, on some level, but he definitely has done some good work and has figured some of it out. And the US Presidents are NOT high level. They are selected mangers and caretakers.


Agree with this assessment and also will add that the Organization on occasion seems
to be able to give marching orders to the US Government and the Government is their
boot lacky to do their bidding and protect their international investments when they go bad..like in Iraq.


Indeed.


I too am noting this and it goes way back into history...the secrecy and blood family ties..internationally. Like Whitewave..I believe their is a spiritual side to this and that it is a secret and devout/zealous religious belief system and very olde.


That makes three of us in this thread. And that is like the conclusion many of us come to that this power structure is quite old an quite established. The more one looks into it, the more it is absolutely clear that whether or not I personally have any type of spiritual or religious belief, They most certainly do. And there sure seems to be a lot of things that lead one to consider that some of these spiritual pursuits of TPTB might fall on the darker sidde of things, involving some pretty nasty stuff.

That keeps a lot of people from going far enough in their personal research into these issues - a failure to recognize that no matter what their personal spiritual/religious beliefs, and no matter how ambivalent/agnostic/atheistic they may be, the people running the show seem to be very much concerned about such things, to such extent that they keep it hidden from us.

To really try to get a handle on all of this, there is no avoiding studying a great number of diverse subjects.


Thanks,
Orangetom


Likewise.

I spent most my life as an ardent, dismissive skeptic of the majority of the subjects one finds on this site. This is a busy site. Perhaps some skeptic will stumble their way across our conversation and decide to step back and reassess their conclusions about some of this stuff. I see you have a couple more posts I need to read. It turns many off, but there is just no way to have any type of in depth, substantive conversation about this stuff without using a lot of words, is there?

I have no ties to that book I quoted from, but as you have knowledge about the KGC, that is a great book. It is not a KGC specific or exclusive book ether, and has some great photographs regarding some symbolism linked to the KGC. There is a lot of good information in there that is not published in many places.



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