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The Cost of Not Vaccinating

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posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Honestly I just don't care to debate with you when you can't even address what was written in the OP. I see what you are doing is an attempt to derail you put so much misinformation in your attempts it is better to have people verify if you are lying for themselves. You didn't bring up anything that hasn't been debated before in other threads the whole Bill gates thing you tried to pull shows the level you were willing to stoop to which I did point out. Bassicly if you can't address the topic then I just don't have any interest in your comments that's FYI.

If you want your own topic I am fairly sure you know how to make a thread.




posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 01:28 AM
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Grimpachi
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Honestly I just don't care to debate with you when you can't even address what was written in the OP. I see what you are doing is an attempt to derail you put so much misinformation in your attempts it is better to have people verify if you are lying for themselves. You didn't bring up anything that hasn't been debated before in other threads the whole Bill gates thing you tried to pull shows the level you were willing to stoop to which I did point out. Bassicly if you can't address the topic then I just don't have any interest in your comments that's FYI.

If you want your own topic I am fairly sure you know how to make a thread.


You obviously did not even read the article which is why you are whining about the title.

Here is an article written by the AP's medical writer, reputable enough for you? You can't address these issues so you merely ignore them and try to misdirect people by crying tears about the title as if that is what was quoted from the article.


Polio Surge In Nigeria After
Vaccine Virus Mutates
By MARIA CHENG, AP Medical Writer
www.rense.com...


Nigeria and most other poor nations use an oral polio vaccine because it's cheaper, easier, and protects entire communities.

But it is made from a live polio virus - albeit weakened - which carries a small risk of causing polio for every million or so doses given. In even rarer instances, the virus in the vaccine can mutate into a deadlier version that ignites new outbreaks.

The vaccine used in the United States and other Western nations is given in shots, which use a killed virus that cannot cause polio.

So when WHO officials discovered a polio outbreak in Nigeria was sparked by the polio vaccine itself, they assumed it would be easier to stop than a natural "wild" virus. They were wrong. In 2007, health experts reported that amid Nigeria's ongoing outbreak of wild polio viruses, 69 children had also been paralyzed in a new outbreak caused by the mutation of a vaccine's virus.


The virus mutated because of the vaccine and became even worse.



This year, the number of polio cases caused by the vaccine has doubled: 124 children have so far been paralyzed, compared to 62 in 2008, out of about 42 million children vaccinated. For every case of paralysis, there are hundreds of other children who don't develop symptoms, but pass on the disease.


What are the costs of vaccination in these cases, Grimpachi? Is that not on topic enough for you?



Patricia Doyle, PhD Hello Jeff: Here we go again, polio virus outbreak as a result of polio vaccine. Polio could be cut down or wiped out, not by vaccine, but by removal of sewage from water and environment. Period! Polio lives harmlessly in our guts and is not problematic until it gets into drinking water, soil etc as a result of poor sanitation.



-FBB
edit on 13-1-2014 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 01:40 AM
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How about this one?

Change of Hepatitis B Large Surface Antigen Variants after 13 Years
Universal Vaccination Program in China
(Running title: HBV variants in China)
www.asm.org...

The vaccination program is causing the virus to mutate at unprecedented levels.

Vaccination campaign doubles HBV mutations
medicalxpress.com...


Taking advantage of 1992 and 2005 survey, investigators found that the prevalence of HBV escape mutants in children rose from 6.5 percent in 1992, before the start of the universal vaccination program, to nearly 15 percent in 2005. Among the control group of adults unaffected by the universal vaccination campaign, the rate of break-out mutants was virtually unchanged.


Break out mutants means bad in case you don't read the report. By modern models this level of mutation will most likely lead to further outbreaks of more dangerous strains of the virus.

The solution presented . . . . develop a new vaccine, then another, then another . . . endless profits.

Teens susceptible to hepatitis B infection despite vaccination as infants
medicalxpress.com...


New research reveals that a significant number of adolescents lose their protection from hepatitis B virus (HBV) infection, despite having received a complete vaccination series as infants. Results in the January 2013 issue of Hepatology, a journal published by Wiley on behalf of the American Association for the Study of Liver Diseases, suggest teens with high-risk mothers (those positive for HBeAg) and teens whose immune system fails to remember a previous viral exposure (immunological memory) are behind HBV reinfection.


Again, develop more vaccines because the vaccines did not work as intended.



Findings indicate that HBsAg and anti-HBs positive rates were 2% and 48%, respectively. For students who received the HBV immune globulin (HBIG) and vaccine as infants, 15% were positive for HBsAg—a rate that was significantly higher in students whose mothers were positive for HBeAg and who received HBIG off schedule. Researchers found a significantly negative association between HB vaccination dose and a positive rate of HBsAg among students who did not receive HBIG.


What are the costs?

-FBB
edit on 13-1-2014 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 01:45 AM
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Yea. Got to love those who hide behind other peoples efforts. Other peoples sense of duty to help those they have not even meet.

The truth.....Everything you are and everything you have. Your very existence is down to the sacrifice of other people.


If you are just a consumer of other peoples efforts. Then good on you. But stop deluding yourself you are anything but a bottom feeder. You are only out for yourself.



The day I see someone stand up and say.....

" I don't believe in your BS medical science. And I am willing to give up all rights to access anything these so called experts have ever invented. I hereby blacklist myself " ..... I will believe they have conviction.


Until then. They are the shills. Selling their own expertise.



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by thedeadtruth
 



And I am willing to give up all rights to access anything these so called experts have ever invented. I hereby blacklist myself


So, you want everyone who doesn't want a vaccine, to be blacklisted?



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by thedeadtruth
 


FYI Vaccines ARE NOT JUST FOR VIRUSES ANYMORE;
Vaccine against pneumococcal infections has led to widespread reduction in serious disease
medicalxpress.com...


Vaccination with the pneumococcal conjugate vaccine-7 [PCV7—a vaccine that covers 7 strains (serotypes) of Streptococcus pneumoniae] is linked to overall decreases in the rate of serious infections caused by this bacterium, such as pneumonia and meningitis, referred to as invasive pneumococcal disease (IPD)], but small increases in IPD caused by serotypes of Streptococcus pneumoniae not covered by the vaccine ( referred to as non-vaccine type IPD), according to a study published in PLOS Medicine this week.

. . . .

The authors combined IPD surveillance information from multiple countries to estimate changes in IPD rates before and after PCV7 introduction. For children aged under 5 years, the authors found that the overall number of observed cases of IPD in the first year after the introduction of PCV7 was about half the expected number; this reduction in the number of IPD cases remained relatively stable over 7 years. Among adults, the authors observed smaller, more variable decreases in overall IPD. Notably, the rate of IPD caused by vaccine serotypes decreased every year, but the rate of IPD caused by non-vaccine serotypes increased annually, which was likely to be the result of serotype replacement.


50% reduction in children under 5, sounds good to me, but it is hovering under 20% for age brackets older than 5 years.

Ohh but lets not forget about the increased rates of mutation to other stereotypes which will mean more vaccines to sell in the future.

-FBB



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 02:12 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


You are not going to find one real expert on this subject claiming vacs are perfect.

Evolution is out to kill you. And viruses will never be outsmarted.


Vacs are not the only answer. As suggested knowing how these things spread is over half the battle. But some people "choose" to live in squalor. Even in 1st world countries. What you going to do about that ?


Everyone wants freedom. But no-one wants to give up their God given right to be a disease spreader.


I am glad this is all just a debate for most of you. I on the other hand have to deal with killer bugs all the time. Mutated # we cant even identify. Posted cases coming in with a blank cause of death.


I think I am off to drink a gallon of Olive Leaf Extract and 2 table spoons of Calcium Ascorbic VitC powder. Probably give me the runs. But it will hopefully kill off my MRSA / Hep C I got from drinking my own embalming fluid.



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by thedeadtruth
 



But no-one wants to give up their God given right to be a disease spreader.


Why are you worried about disease spreaders....

You are vaccinated, aren't you?




posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 02:20 AM
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reply to post by ENrgLee
 


No. I want you to blacklist yourself.

As I said..... Its called conviction.



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 02:24 AM
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reply to post by ENrgLee
 


Because I deal with infectious cases all the time. Stuff you cant vaccinate against yet.


But thanks to people smarter and less selfish than you. Hopefully one day we will.


edit on 11/19/09 by thedeadtruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by ENrgLee
 


And let me guess. Your only answer is " stop trying"

Brilliant.



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by thedeadtruth
 



No. I want you to blacklist yourself.


I just don't want to be forcibly vaccinated....

In what possible insaine universe do you believe that not wanting to be vaccinated, means that I want to be blacklisted?

How exactly is this conviction?

I don't have to follow your prescriptions for what I do in my life, and that is the entire point of this discussion.

You don't have the right to dictate my life.

And yet, you are stating that my CONVICTION should lead me to follow YOUR prescriptions for my life, IF I DON'T WANT TO FOLLOW YOUR PRESCRIPTIONS.

Therefore, your statements on my "Conviction" are manipulative balderdash.

Stop lying.


But thanks to people smarter and less selfish than you.


Obediance to the state is intelligence and selflessness, eh?

Sounds to me like you are trying to turn "Slavery" into "Goodness"

Keep trying, you might be sucessful at having a rational point one of these days.


And let me guess. Your only answer is " stop trying"

Brilliant.


Stop trying WHAT?

Listen, dude... communication is a skill that obviously you need to work at.

If you are going to respond to something that I said, you could at the very least INDICATE what you are responding to.... because your statement "And let me guess. Your only answer is " stop trying"" doesn't mean anything outside of the context of what you are referring to.

Try again, stop being so self-centered... and realize that just because you think something should be done, doesn't mean that you have the moral high ground to enforce people to do it at the point of a gun.

Keep trying to take that moral high ground, while you step on everyone's necks.... eventually someone other than you will believe you.



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


When I was a baby in the UK in the early 70's, my parents decided not to allow me to be vaccinated against whooping cough because of advice they were given relating to our families medical history.

Fast-forward to 1975 and some prominent doctor in the UK at that time raised concerns ( which were later rejected) about the whooping cough vaccine. This resulted in a "scare" in the UK which saw the uptake for this vaccine drop to approx 30%. This then had a knock on effect of two separate major epidemics.

Because I wasn't vaccinated I was unfortunately a victim of the first whooping cough epidemic. My illness lasted for a couple of months and I had to be hospitalized with complications. It is actually one of my earliest memories and I can still remember how bad the coughing was and the struggle to breath. I was a very poorly little girl.

As a result of my illness my parents had to take long periods off work. I think the points you raised are valid ones. If the majority of people stopped vaccinating their children against avoidable diseases and they made a major comeback, who would pay for this economic loss and the strain on healthcare?



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by ENrgLee
 


Ok. To make myself clear.

I do not trust people who like to cherry pick facts to suit their agenda. Or do not openly admit their very existence is thanks to people way smarter than them.

That their very freedom was fought for by people who where not selfish. And did not mind taking orders occasionally.


I think Big Pharma and you have things in common. Things I do not like. And find highly concerning that you both have influence . but in the world of free speech and marketing. The best I can do is make other people who read this think.



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 09:58 PM
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My conviction comment.....

I bet you would like any Big Pharma companies / individuals who do dodgy things to vaccinations or figures for a buck. To be held accountable. To be named and shamed. Not hide behind academic reports, corporate structure or anonymous company names .

I only ask the same of you.


But if you think people should never have to be held accountable for anything they say or do. Why don't you just say so.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by thedeadtruth
 



Ok. To make myself clear.


Hardly...


I do not trust people who like to cherry pick facts to suit their agenda.


I don't want mandatory vaccinations.

Explain how this is "Cherry picking"



Or do not openly admit their very existence is thanks to people way smarter than them.


Oh... so you are my father?

I didn't realize that you posted on ATS... "DAD"




That their very freedom was fought for by people who where not selfish. And did not mind taking orders occasionally.


The "freedom" to take orders from the government, eh?

What a load of balderdash, again, trying to conflate mandatory vaccination with being a "Good little patriot"

You are transparent.

"Freedom" means being free from government force.

You cannot claim that Freedom is Slavery, you orwellian parrot.



I think Big Pharma and you have things in common.


Let me get this straight....

I don't want mandatory vaccinations....

Therefore I am simmilar to big Pharma?

Oh, wow, that's rich.... do you even read these things before you post them?


The best I can do is make other people who read this think.


If only that was what you were actually trying to do.....

Sounds to me like you are trying to shame, cajole, intimidate, and outright threaten people into supporting mandatory vaccinations....

When the last time I checked, you only posess the one body, and MY body doesn't belong to YOU.

Point blank, you are trying to justify your stance as PRO-STATIST, PRO Using force against people who don't want injections..... And conflate this with "Freedom"

You are transparent, and frankly, I am embarassed for you.



I bet you would like any Big Pharma companies / individuals who do dodgy things to vaccinations or figures for a buck. To be held accountable. To be named and shamed. Not hide behind academic reports, corporate structure or anonymous company names


Sure, sounds great.


I only ask the same of you.


Bull[snip]

You are using subversive language to try to convince me that Being FORCED TO ACCEPT VACCINATION IS FREEDOM.

Go shill somewhere else.


But if you think people should never have to be held accountable for anything they say or do. Why don't you just say so.


I think you should be held accountable for being a shill for mandatory vaccinations.

And you should also be fired for not being any good at it, because you are transparent.

Go use your verbal twisting powers somewhere else....

Your shaming language has no power over me.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 

Also, some people believe the corporations that manufacture these vaccines are in it for the money and don't actually care about us at all.

The scary thing is, if this is true, they would obviously have entertained the idea of developing vaccines to make people sick in the future.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by ENrgLee
 


As I stated before... Rebel without a clue.


You are fighting the wrong battle.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 01:48 AM
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NuclearPaul
reply to post by Grimpachi
 

Also, some people believe the corporations that manufacture these vaccines are in it for the money and don't actually care about us at all.

The scary thing is, if this is true, they would obviously have entertained the idea of developing vaccines to make people sick in the future.



Yes. There are people in the pharmaceutical industry that are that evil. I have meet some of them.



posted on Jan, 15 2014 @ 11:25 AM
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Really your going to hold dollars up as a reason to vaccinate? God forbid anyone should have to stay home and care for your child instead of going to work. What about the 3.2 million it cost to care for an autistic child. There is plenty of evidence showing vaccines are not what they seem they are neither safe nor effective.



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