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Romans 13:1-6…?

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posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by Snsoc
 


He clearly separates the two in the verse.



Ephesians 6
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.


Notice how he says AND against the spiritual forces. Against the powers of this world AND the spiritual forces. He is clearly separating the two as separate entities.

Also, how is there evil in the heavenly realm? I thought heaven was without evil?
edit on 3501101CST353 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 01:54 AM
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I have heard it said that if you ask 20 Rabbi's to explain anything you are sure of 1 constant, 20 different theories...

Going back to the content of the OP, I would like to see what other viewpoints exist outside of Christianity on the concept being discussed and for that to include any faith, belief or non-belief for that matter. But bring it up to date and apply it in the world as is.
I guarantee more theories and arguments but it would be interesting to see if a common thread, religious or otherwise was to reveal itself.
It might be an interesting challenge, whether a seperate post is needed is not my concern, it's just a thought after all...



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



Also, if god establishes ALL authorities on Earth (as verse 1 states), wouldn't that mean any war throughout history was a direct result of what god established?

In a world of many gods (the Bible itself makes several mentions of the plural), the question is then which 'god' was the authorship of Paul serving? If it is Yahweh, then it's contradictions with Christ's teachings would explain much as the nature of Yahweh was not in line with that of the Holy Father, who was NOT a liar, nor a murderer, nor 'jealous'. Such was not the Way of the Christhood as I see it.
edit on 10-1-2014 by PrimeLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 02:45 AM
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Joecroft
The authorities at the time of Paul, were persecuting and murdering Christians, for some 30 to 40 years, long before the Roman Christian church, was fully established.

The persecution by Roman authorities really began with Nero, after the fire in Rome in A.D. 64. They were not persecuting Christians at the time when the letter was written, at least ten years earlier.


Which means, the authorities of the day… those in power at that time, were not believers in Jesus at all. So how Paul can write that the authorities were established by God, at the time of writing, is a mystery too me, because they weren’t even believers back then.

It is a standard Bibical idea that ALL the nations of the world and their rulers are established by God, whether they know it or not, whether they believe in God or not. So the Old Testament prophets describe Nebuchadnezzar as sent by God to chastise Israel, and Cyrus as sent by God to end the Babylonian Exile, but both rulers were blissfully ignorant that they were doing anything of the kind.


And considering the fact that Paul must have been aware of the persecution taking place, and bearing in mind, he himself was once paid by Rome, to persecute Christians, before his conversion, means, he must have been aware of it.

He was not paid by Rome to persecute Christians. It is clear from Acts that he was commissioned by the JEWS, by the High Priest in Jerusalem, to persecute Christians. This seems to be the source of your confusion, that you are not distinguishing between the hostility of the Jews, which was there from the beginning, and the hostility of the Romans which developed later. At the time of writing this letter, Paul was aware of Jewish hostility, but he was not aware of Roman hostility. At the time, the Roman attitude was Gallio's "Why are you bothering me with religious issues?"


And the fact that even after his conversion, Paul himself was persecuted and killed by the Roman authorities, because of his beliefs, means he must have known, leading up to his capture, that the authorities had not only rejected Jesus, and his (Paul’s) Christian beliefs, but God along with it as well.

The persecution of Christians began after the writing of this letter.


So how can he possibly write, that they are “Gods servants” and that they “were established by God” when they were rejecting believers in Jesus, at that time, and killing them etc… just doesn’t seem plausible…IMO

This is answered by two points already made. They were not rejecting and killing the servants of God at the time of writing, and they need not need to KNOW they were established by God in order to be established by God. By punishing robbers and murderers, they were unconsciously acting as the instruments of God.


And I really can’t see Paul writing those verses in Romans 13, from his Roman jail cell, just before his execution, by the Roman authorities…

Nobody has ever suggested that Romans was written in a Roman jail cell, and it cannot possibly be true. He opens the letter by saying "I have long wanted to visit you, some day I will, and in the meantime here is a letter to give you advice". That tells us that he was not in Rome at the time. At the time of writing he was still with his churches around the Aegean doing his missionary work, conscious only of Jewish hostility.

When he says that the authorities punish the wrongdoer, he is talking about the ordinary police work of punishing robbers and rapists and murderers.
It is still true, as a rough generalisation, that this is what the authorities do.
And it is still true that when the authorities deal with robbers and rapists and murderers they are doing a good thing and unconsiously acting as the servants of God.
Because without that police work, we would be left in a nightmare world of anarchy, as we will all discover when authority finally does break down.



edit on 10-1-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 05:46 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 

'They' really do keep pushing the whole submission to worldly authority in the Bible...an additional collection.

Hebrews 13:17 ESV
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Ephesians 6:5-8 ESV
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man, knowing that whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.

No mention in the Bible that the practice of slavery is abominable nor condemned of course. Nope, that wouldn't serve those god's agenda very well, for they were all about our submission and obedience to their instituted 'authority' figures, lest by ingrained fear subjects be punished for non compliance.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (KJV)
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.15 For so is the will of God (hmmm, ok which one in the pantheon), that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God (again, which god's will is being served here).17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

I take it the primary god/s of this world prefer to be feared so that we more easily submit to their instituted bloodline authority. That I do not doubt.

Quite the mind control web has been weaved, especially amongst those that fall heaviest within the traps of the 'infallible word'.

edit on 10-1-2014 by PrimeLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 06:17 AM
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Paul is not talking about the Roman "government" he said the higher powers....if he was talking about the Romans he would have said so plainly.Nor was he talking about the church simply because there was no church "organization nor hierarchy.
This is what he wrote:.

Let every person be subject to the higher powers. For there is NO power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

higher=ὑπερέχω hyperechō .....have or hold over one...to be above, be superior in rank, authority, power
power=ἐξουσία exousia ......one who possesses authority

There is only ONE higher power and Paul is clearly stating who that is.The creator God.He is as usual talking about common sense and people without common sense think he is talking about something completely different like the Roman government or some wacked out conspiracy BS or a church organization (that never existed in his time).He is clearly stating follow/submit to do what is 'right/good/" the higher power of God not "THE "government.

It would be much more beneficial for some (most) people to NOT read the scriptures at all if they can't understand them with common sense.The scriptures are not a "rulebook" of life to be followed like a manual.It is very easy to see how religion has twisted everything in the scriptures that is common sense to mean nothing...the doctrines of men ...and fight and argue over the most inane useless statements and then blame Paul who was a billion times wiser than they are or someone else when Paul or anyone else isn't the problem.


edit on 10-1-2014 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 06:34 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


Not reading every post and just taking a wild stab?

It had to do with "God" selecting men to be "Kings" to Govern the "Jews"



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


The King James Version translates this verse as submit to the "higher powers" and not "governing authorities" . I like this translation better because it puts God as the highest power. A Christian should submit to government as long as government is in submission to God. When government turns from God it is the Christian's duty to resist tyranny. Ask North Korean Christians if they should submit to their governing authorities... In NK people are executed for having a Bible.



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 11:11 AM
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edit on 10-1-2014 by OptimusSubprime because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by jeramie
 





Originally posted by Jeramie
When it comes right down to it, it's really pretty simple: obeying the laws of the land and respecting the authorities are not bad things, so long as doing so does not cause us to put man's law before God's law.


Romans killing Christians, just because of their beliefs, was not men putting Gods laws, before mens laws…

And as for “respecting the authorities are not bad things”, the whole context of Romans 13 is written from the perspective of offerring Christians advice, on respecting the authorities.

But the Christians weren’t attacking or disrespecting the authorities, it was the other way around! Which makes the advice a slap in the face. And what makes it even worse IMO, is that Paul, having been subject to persecutions in the past (imprisoned by Roman Soldiers etc), would have been fully aware of that fact!

- JC



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 





Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Since the verses in question are clearly untrue there are 2 possibilities to their existence:

1. Someone interpolated them into the epistle after the fact.

2. Paul was hired by Rome to create sympathy and obedience to their authority and any authority who came afterward.

I personally do not like Paul or his writings because he brought entirely new concepts into the fold that Jesus never even hinted at. In my opinion he was a Roman spy hired to write letters in Jesus' name in order to obscure Jesus' true message.


I have a similar idea to your number 1, except with a different slant on it.

I think Paul may have been a recent convert to Christian Gnosticism, but that he knew very little of it, and only really understood the simple outward teachings.

Combined with your option 1, I think his letters were slightly changed, edited and added too, to siut the Roman authorities. Many Scholars have highlighted how some Epistles of Paul, don’t seem to match up gramatically, and stylistically, with others… probably because they’re not even Pauls words!




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
His conversion is entirely hearsay on his part and no one can possibly know whether his conversion was legitimate or not unless they take his word as fact. Seeing as how he persecuted Christians for the Roman empire before his supposed conversion, I do not believe he or his teachings can be trusted, especially since Jesus warned of false teachers and said that bad trees cannot bear good fruit. Paul was the most rotten tree of all before his supposed conversion, so Jesus picking him as his mouthpiece goes entirely against his own teachings.


Not sure if you’re aware of this, but Paul’s conversion, or should I say, his OBE into the heavenly realms, is mentioned in the Christian Gnostic text “The Apocalypse of Paul”



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
To add even more confusion to it, Paul says this in another of his epistles:

Ephesians 6
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

He tells us in Romans 13 that the rulers and authorities are put in place by god for our own good and that they do not bear their swords for no reason, he then says in Ephesians that his struggle is AGAINST the rulers and authorities, the same ones he was commending in Romans.

Is Paul telling us that our struggle is against what god has established for our own good?


This is just the thing…ever notice how Paul one minute seems to make sense, and the next, seems to contradict himself…

I think Ephesians 6:12 makes sense on its own, because it’s referring to spiritual powers, but Romans 13 makes no sense at all IMO…and that’s without even comparing it, to any verse.

But getting back to what I saying further up, I think some of Pauls epistles, don’t belong to Paul, or they were edited with a Roman-Jewish bias.




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Thanks for bringing this up again, I think it is vital to the discussion on the bible and its supposed infallibility.

S&F


Well, when you first brought it up, I wasn’t really sure what to make of it.

So thank you, for bringing it to my attention.

- JC



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 





Originally posted by Akragon
It seems to me that Jesus did not submit to the authorities in his day...


Yes exactly, and I’m pretty sure He wouldn’t have called them “servants of God” either…



Originally posted by Akragon
He did say give to ceasar what is his... but that did not include giving ourselves over to their will

There isn't a single non corrupt government on the planet... So according to paul "Gods authority" on earth is corrupt...


Yeah, if all the governments were Gods servants, then the Kingdom of God, would already be well established on the earth by now…

*sigh*

- JC



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


Whether it was interpolated later or written by Paul himself, it is clear that it is not true. I think it may even be a possibility that while Paul was in jail he was forced to write these epistles to cater to a more Jewish-centric audience to keep them slaves to a maniacal god instead of the true God that Jesus truly taught of.

Either way, the Romans 13 passage is a deliberate sympathy piece catered toward corrupt governments.



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by GodIsRelative
 





Originally posted by GodIsRelative
Good question, but the answer is quite simple, really.

Paul wrote that every authority is instituted by God because every THING was instituted by God before the world began. God knew our entire history even before it began. He created everything in the universe to be exactly as it is for a specific divine purpose.


Thing is, you could say everything was established by God, so it’s kind of an easy argument…but surely you wouldn’t say the Anti-Christ, is a servant of God…would you?




Originally posted by GodIsRelative
When Paul called Christians to be complicit and unafraid of the ruling authorities, he was well aware of the fact that the authorities did not have the best interest of Christians in mind. Rather, Paul knew that God had the best interest of each Christian in mind before He, in His infinite divine wisdom, decided to place them before the empire as martyrs, witnesses, prophets, or even as liars and traitors.


I think it’s one thing to tell Christians not to rise up against the authorities etc (Which they weren’t even doing to start with) and another thing to tell people they are appointed by God; Especially the God, “they” believed in, and that they are Gods servants, when they were killing, or at least standing idly by, while Jewish Pharisees (most likely sanctioned by the Roman authorities) were persecuting them.

Paul was imprisoned on a few occasions by the Roman authorities for his beliefs, so if they were Gods servants, then they should have done something about the persecutions.



Originally posted by GodIsRelative
Paul simply took the word of Jesus at precisely its face value. "If someone strikes you on the cheek, turn him the other as well." He was not telling Christians to love the empire and what they were doing. He was simply telling them not to rebel, because it's better to die for a cause than to kill for one.


I understand that aspect of it, i.e. not getting them to rebel etc…but stating they were “appointed by God”, and that they are “Gods servants” is just plain wrong.

“Servants of God”, are those who follow and practice, Jesus teachings…imho

- JC

edit on 10-1-2014 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by paxnatus
 





Originally posted by paxnatus
You are misunderstanding the verses. It is important to know whom Paul was writing to, verse 7 tells us he was writing to only believers. He does not mean rulers of the secular world, he means the ones God has placed in authority over Christians.


How does the fact he was writing to believers (which I’m already aware of btw) change anything…???

And also, he takes it much further than just “the ones God has placed in authority over Christians”, he’s saying, they were appointed by God…

Hmm so they were appointed by god, to Kill and persecute Christians or, not stand up to it, while it was happening…?



Originally posted by paxnatus
If apostle Paul was advocating obedience to secular authorities, then Caesar would have no cause against him. Why would Caesar have Paul beheaded if he was promoting obedience to Rome? If Paul belonged to Caesar, Caesar would not want to kill his own. If Paul was promoting "be subject to Caesar," then Paul would be Caesar's friend. You would not kill your own. You don't destroy the very instrument that advertises for you.


Looks like you helped yourself, home in, on the real truth…

You see, maybe he was standing up for his own beliefs, was then beheaded, and then his writings were changed and edited, to suit the Roman authorities etc…



Originally posted by paxnatus
Romans 13 means, "Remember them which have the rule over you," as you will also find at Hebrews 13:7. Since Paul was addressing the saints at Rome, it is logical that he would instruct them to submit to those who look after their souls.

It is a reminder to be obedient to the authorities God has placed over His people. For they are truly the "ministers of God to thee for good." Unlike worldly rulers, God's ministers are not a terror to good works but to the evil. Therefore, "do that which is good and thou shalt have praise of the same."


Like I have been saying to a few other posters, it’s one thing to ask people to be peaceful and be respectful of authorities; I get that; but it’s another thing entirely, to state they are all “Gods servants”, especially when they didn’t even believe in Jesus or God at that time. And they certainly didn’t act, in a Godly manner, as Paul, himself would have been witness too…


- JC



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by PrimeLight
 



Thank you for your post…



Originally posted by PrimeLight
You highlighted a very good example of the writings attributed to Paul (Saul) that indicates further distortion to favour the 'elitist' Anunnaki 'rebel gods' slave-master agenda instituted through their various initiated 'religious' practices.


I notice you said “attributed to Paul (Saul)”…I’m curious as to how you see this, because I’m pretty sure that Pauls words have been edited and/or added too. My current position is that Paul, most likely became a Gnostic Christian, and that along with them, and his writings, they were subverted by those in power.



Originally posted by PrimeLight
There are several contradictions in comparing those writings with those attributed to Jesus also. A simple google search can uncover the contradiction listings.


You mean, contradictions between Jesus own words, throughout the New Testament…right…?



Originally posted by PrimeLight
The Bible is one of the most dangerous books ever assembled (it's verses have been used to justify all manner of evils), and yet can be the most enlightening if and when one is willing to filter through the rot to apply the sparks of Light Truth within in Good Spirit.


Yes, well said. The light of truth should shine brighter than anything else; if only people would try to seek it out.





- JC



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by PrimeLight
 


And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. Luke22

The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. Acts4

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 1Corinthians2

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 15

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matthew28



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 06:18 PM
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3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Snsoc
 


He clearly separates the two in the verse.



Ephesians 6
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.


Notice how he says AND against the spiritual forces. Against the powers of this world AND the spiritual forces. He is clearly separating the two as separate entities.

Also, how is there evil in the heavenly realm? I thought heaven was without evil?
edit on 3501101CST353 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)




These are two categories of the same thing. There are powers of the dark world (principalities and powers), a hierarchy of evil beings. Daniel mentions the Prince of Persia-a reference to the demon who was the dark power behind the physical throne. THEN there are the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms (the power of the air). Satan is head of them both-he is the god of this world and the prince of the power of the air. And yes, "heaven" is used to describe the air. There are multiple uses of Heaven in the Bible. Satan even goes before God in Heaven in the Book of Job.



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 





Originally posted by DISRAELI
The persecution by Roman authorities really began with Nero, after the fire in Rome in A.D. 64. They were not persecuting Christians at the time when the letter was written, at least ten years earlier.


Did it really…

Herod had strong ties, with the Roman authorities…



Originally posted by DISRAELI
He was not paid by Rome to persecute Christians. It is clear from Acts that he was commissioned by the JEWS, by the High Priest in Jerusalem, to persecute Christians.

This seems to be the source of your confusion, that you are not distinguishing between the hostility of the Jews, which was there from the beginning, and the hostility of the Romans which developed later.

At the time of writing this letter, Paul was aware of Jewish hostility, but he was not aware of Roman hostility. At the time, the Roman attitude was Gallio's "Why are you bothering me with religious issues?"




In Rome, Herod sought the support of Mark Antony and Octavian, and secured recognition by the Roman Senate as king, confirming the termination of the Hasmonean dynasty. According to Josephus, Sadducean opposition to Herod led him to treat the Pharisees favorably ("Ant." xiv. 9, § 4; xv. 1, § 1; 10, § 4; 11, §§ 5–6). Herod was an unpopular ruler, perceived as a Roman puppet.


Source

There’s no confusion on my part, Paul was a Jewish Pharisee and Herod appeared sympathetic towards the Pharisees cause. Herod also had very strong ties to the Roman senate. And according to historic accounts, it seemed like Herod, just went along with what Rome demanded.

I don’t think for a second, that Rome would allow a band of Pharisees, to go around persecuting/Killing Christians, if the Roman authorities didn’t’ either sanction it, or allow it to take place. If you think the Jewish Pharisees just acted alone, then I would say you are being very naïve!

And just too add, if the Roman authorities, were from God then they should have made an effort, to stop these persecutions, from taking place.



Originally posted by DISRAELI
It is a standard Bibical idea that ALL the nations of the world and their rulers are established by God, whether they know it or not, whether they believe in God or not. So the Old Testament prophets describe Nebuchadnezzar as sent by God to chastise Israel, and Cyrus as sent by God to end the Babylonian Exile, but both rulers were blissfully ignorant that they were doing anything of the kind.


But this is the problem…Just because someone says an authority is from God, or a servant of God, doesn’t mean they are…

I’m not really sure, what your point is…



Originally posted by Joecroft
And the fact that even after his conversion, Paul himself was persecuted and killed by the Roman authorities, because of his beliefs, means he must have known, leading up to his capture, that the authorities had not only rejected Jesus, and his (Paul’s) Christian beliefs, but God along with it as well.





Originally posted by DISRAELI
The persecution of Christians began after the writing of this letter.


I beg to differ…I believe the Pharisees with the help of Herod, were puppets of the Roman authorities…

Also Paul, was arrested many times by Roman authorities and even suffered a stoning, at the hands of the Pharisees.

Which means Paul must have been aware, at some point, when he wrote Romans 13, that his beliefs were being persecuted, and that the authorities were not standing up, or even helping, to defend his beliefs.

He would also have been aware, that during the years he was helping to persecute the Christians, that the Roman authorities were either a part of it, or that they were doing nothing about it.

Which means, it doesn’t matter when you think Rome entered into the persecutions, because Paul knew that Rome wasn’t lifting a finger to help out, and therefore, he should have never wrote that they were “appointed by God”, or that they were “servants of God”…when they were doing nothing at that time, to stop those persecutions…

- JC



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by Rex282
 





Originally posted by Rex282
Paul is not talking about the Roman "government" he said the higher powers....if he was talking about the Romans he would have said so plainly.Nor was he talking about the church simply because there was no church "organization nor hierarchy.
This is what he wrote:.

Let every person be subject to the higher powers. For there is NO power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

higher=ὑπερέχω hyperechō .....have or hold over one...to be above, be superior in rank, authority, power
power=ἐξουσία exousia ......one who possesses authority


The whole context of Romans 13:1-6 revolves around the Roman authorities…you can’t just change one word translation, and try to make it mean something else, outside the context, of the entire verse…

For example…



Romans 13:1
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.
The authorities that exist have been established by God.


The above word “authorities” can not be talking about “higher power” i.e. God because God does not get established by God…




2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.


Again, the word “authority” above, is not “higher power/God” because it’s referring to that which was established by God.




3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.


And here above the word “rulers”, is being tied in with the ones in authority, again it’s not about a “higher power/God”





4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.



Verse 4 is talking again about the one in authority being a servant of God. Which means the previous word authority is not talking about God or a “higher power”

Of course “higher power can be meant in the higher authority sense i.e. the Roman authorities…but when viewed that way, it does not change the overall context of the verses.

Plus, verse 5, is in context, with the rest of the verse, so even if the correct translation of verse 5, is "higher powers", then that translation can still fit, with it talking about the Roman authorities, of the day…

But to suddenly state that verse 5 means/translates to “higher power” and that therefore only that word, refers to God, in that particular sentence…would be going against the consistency and context of the entire paragraph!

- JC



edit on 10-1-2014 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



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