Poverty level breaks 50-year record

jacobe001
How can the war on poverty be won when we keep letting in those poverty stricken from other countries so that big business can have cheap labor?

The Answer to that question is we Can't . Poverty Levels in the U.S. will always be Increased because of Illegal Immigration and the Lack of Leadership from the President on down to the Congress and Senate . Enacting Business Friendly Laws and Curbing the amount of Illegals coming into the Country is the Only Answer to lowering the Level of Poverty in this country . A Common Sense Solution that has been Ignored for over 50 Years now for whatever Reason......

xuenchen
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Looking at Presidents it seems that some Republicans actually got results unlike what you are saying.

Nixon and Ford netted a lower number.

Carter had a spike up towards the end of his office.

Reagan started a good downtrend in 1983.

Bush1 spiked up, Clinton spiked down but started an upward trend at his end.

Bush2 showed a slight downtrend but ended with a very high up trend.

Obama is at 15% levels and holding.

Perhaps the makeup of Congress has more impact?

A more accurate graph is in this pdf on page 10 (the poverty rate is in dark green)

Regardless of how you want to read the graph, the thread topic is invalid considering the graph demonstrates a remarkable decline in poverty in -just- 50 years since the announcement and implementation of social programs and nets.
you wrote this:

The war on poverty started in the 1960's.

They've spent more than $20 Trillion since then and guess what....

It's a little worse now.

You are wrong. It is not worse (unless you describe worse as less people in poverty is worse than more. Who knows..that may actually be how your seeing it).
You wrote this also:

the overall percentage of impoverished people in the U.S. has declined only slightly
"only slightly" is of course completely subjective...however, a 50% reduction in poverty in a few short years, and a current net of 20% reduction at the highest upturn is pretty significant. that represents (using todays population numbers) approximately 20 million people its currently lifting (in the great recession).

Now, I fully admit that social programs will not resolve poverty. jobs will. and in todays dynamics of manufacturing, there are simply less jobs considering we get slave labor from different countries. The solution then is not to simply chop off the poor peoples food supply..that won't have the jobs come back, that will just make 20 million new thieves doing whatever they need to do simply to eat. This is the problem with "conservative" fiscal discussions. their response to everything is starve the poor and give gold to the wealthy..because somehow that will make the Asian slave labor market disappear should we do that (it won't).

But regardless, this thread is incorrect, it is not worse, and even the premise of its not a good ROI is dependent fully on not seeing the broad picture. The graph invalidates all points made in ops.

Zanti Misfit

jacobe001
How can the war on poverty be won when we keep letting in those poverty stricken from other countries so that big business can have cheap labor?

The Answer to that question is we Can't . Poverty Levels in the U.S. will always be Increased because of Illegal Immigration and the Lack of Leadership from the President on down to the Congress and Senate . Enacting Business Friendly Laws and Curbing the amount of Illegals coming into the Country is the Only Answer to lowering the Level of Poverty in this country . A Common Sense Solution that has been Ignored for over 50 Years now for whatever Reason......

ridiculous.
Poverty doesn't come from illegals in the country. it comes from companies leaving the shores to go where the illegals came from and have em work for 4 cents a day verses minimum wage here.
The poverty levels represents citizens of the US. the illegals that are without registration/tracking/taxid are not represented here as they are ghosts in the society.

In a perfect society, there would be no poverty.

We currently have corrupt leaders, corrupt businesses, and a corrupt entitlement base.

I make sure my family is housed and fed.
Not anyone or any entity is responsible for that.

The system may need to be torn down before we can solve the problem.

bobs_uruncle

Snarl
reply to post by xuenchen

 

The solution is hilariously simple. If the way you're doing it is not working ... Stop doing it that way.

50 years of failure? That's not how TPTB would define it. They're $20T richer.

ETA: I should have proposed a solution. I will later in the thread. Meanwhile S&F for posting a great topic.

edit on 912014 by Snarl because: ETA

I have an idea TRICKLE UP ECONOMICS! Make everyone a real "shareholder" in the country and pay them dividends. That way, they can buy whatever they need and stimulate the economy rather than have it sucked dry which is happening now.

Cheers - Dave

It's simpler than that. Don't make then shareholders.

Look, part of the huge costs of the entitlement state is the middleman. Instead of sifting those benefits down through the nanny bureaucrats who manage them (and get paid like the big, fat bureaucrats they are, bennies and all), just cut a one-time check to the poor. Let them manage their own money like all the rest of us do. Let them learn about budgeting and responsibility instead of letting the nanny state do it for them.

We'd save money, and they might learn something. And, we could write in mandatory job or training, and we could step off the payment as the personal income grows.

But think how much we could save by not paying the bureaucracies?

SaturnFX

Zanti Misfit

jacobe001
How can the war on poverty be won when we keep letting in those poverty stricken from other countries so that big business can have cheap labor?

The Answer to that question is we Can't . Poverty Levels in the U.S. will always be Increased because of Illegal Immigration and the Lack of Leadership from the President on down to the Congress and Senate . Enacting Business Friendly Laws and Curbing the amount of Illegals coming into the Country is the Only Answer to lowering the Level of Poverty in this country . A Common Sense Solution that has been Ignored for over 50 Years now for whatever Reason......

ridiculous.
Poverty doesn't come from illegals in the country. it comes from companies leaving the shores to go where the illegals came from and have em work for 4 cents a day verses minimum wage here.
The poverty levels represents citizens of the US. the illegals that are without registration/tracking/taxid are not represented here as they are ghosts in the society.

They are ghosts that get benefits because their children anchor them. So the kids get benefits. And here's the kicker - in some states, daddy and/or mommy can be working and making full-time pay, but if they are illegal, their income cannot be counted towards the kids' application for aid. So they not only can be pulling full aid benefits on their kids, all of 'em, but they can be making whatever they can make on the side without any fear of every losing any benefits.

Zanti Misfit

Enacting Business Friendly Laws and Curbing the amount of Illegals coming into the Country is the Only Answer to lowering the Level of Poverty in this country. A Common Sense Solution that has been Ignored for over 50 Years now for whatever Reason......

A better solution would be to get rid of the government and military all together.
My taxes go towards propping up Big Business in the way of the interstate system, ports, global security, and other infrastructure.

If the government dissolved and the Big Corporations had to pay for all the infrastructure themselves, it would give the local and small business an edge and more power. Decentralization of Power from Government and the Big Multinationals would benefit everyone.

I would have no problem driving on gravel roads, nor would local business, but the Big Multinational Companies would not be able to truck their goods all over without increased costs to themselves. They would have to raise prices to pay for it, giving more power to local business.

reply to post by SaturnFX


" Enacting Business Friendly Laws and ......."

Seems you Missed that part or just chose to Ignore it .........

Another thing to consider is that they changed the formula for factoring what constitutes poverty.

ketsuko

bobs_uruncle

Snarl
reply to post by xuenchen

 

The solution is hilariously simple. If the way you're doing it is not working ... Stop doing it that way.

50 years of failure? That's not how TPTB would define it. They're $20T richer.

ETA: I should have proposed a solution. I will later in the thread. Meanwhile S&F for posting a great topic.

edit on 912014 by Snarl because: ETA

I have an idea TRICKLE UP ECONOMICS! Make everyone a real "shareholder" in the country and pay them dividends. That way, they can buy whatever they need and stimulate the economy rather than have it sucked dry which is happening now.

Cheers - Dave

It's simpler than that. Don't make then shareholders.

Look, part of the huge costs of the entitlement state is the middleman. Instead of sifting those benefits down through the nanny bureaucrats who manage them (and get paid like the big, fat bureaucrats they are, bennies and all), just cut a one-time check to the poor. Let them manage their own money like all the rest of us do. Let them learn about budgeting and responsibility instead of letting the nanny state do it for them.

We'd save money, and they might learn something. And, we could write in mandatory job or training, and we could step off the payment as the personal income grows.

But think how much we could save by not paying the bureaucracies?

Actually, I think formalizing a shareholder agreement would be a good thing, but no middleman obviously, it would have to come directly out of treasury. If people are receiving dividends from the government, equally and then the government screws up with dividends disappearing and then goes into deficit, how long do you think politicians will last in office? This would be the "big stick" that forced politicians to do what they are told to benefit the people rather than do what they presently do, which is line their own pockets. With the internet technology we have now, politicians could be removed from office after a year or less if they were caught screwing up, issues could be ratified on-line and NGO's like the IRS and NSA could be reigned in very quickly. Of course, then people could get rid of the FED, the biggest middleman, politicians are a very focused target, it's harder for the FED to kill 300,000,000 people than one president.

Cheers - Dave

Zanti Misfit
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

" Enacting Business Friendly Laws and ......."

Seems you Missed that part or just chose to Ignore it .........

Business Friendly Laws...such as what? we promise to build you free buildings and force people to work for less than a dollar a day?
Because that is what we are competing against.

Business here is not seeking out a comfortable way to hire people for manufacturing, they are simply seeking out gold plated distribution lines to maximize their profits. You can bend over backwards and corporations will not be returning jobs, they will simply be selling stuff to us...and want less regulations to do so...this will make the problem worse of course.

No, what we need is business damn unfriendly war laws. Tariffs, embargos, and simply kick out the biggest sinners of the corporate world...no problem, nature abhors a vacuum. Should we kick out apple because all their labor is outsourced, some new company making the same products will pop up overnight with local made stuff. We are the worlds biggest consumers, its time we realize the leverage we have against corporations instead of the few politicians selling us out endlessly to kiss their butts and get their own selves golden tickets...but we can't until there is a consensus reached as to how businesses should be handled...and being their "friends" is certainly not the method that will change anything....

SaturnFX
but we can't until there is a consensus reached as to how businesses should be handled...and being their "friends" is certainly not the method that will change anything....

Good Post Saturn. The Big Corporations are not interested in being your friends or creating jobs, as much as the Job Creator Meme is tossed around.
No, as you said, they are only interested in profits. Without or without government "in the way" they will utilize cheap labor to maximize their profits. As it is now, our government is only serving them at the expense to citizens as well as small and local business.

I'm all for killing their power and returning it back to the states and local economies and the consumer.

Centralizing the Power in DC and on Wall Street is only helping the few

Look, anytime the government declares war on an intangible object, it is doomed to failure.
War on Poverty. Failed
War on Drugs. Failed
War on Terror. Failed

Of course the government refuses to acknowledge this simple fact. I bet before the end of the decade we'll be declaring war on something else. Racism sounds like a good one. Let's declare war on racism.

Krazysh0t
Look, anytime the government declares war on an intangible object, it is doomed to failure.
War on Poverty. Failed
War on Drugs. Failed
War on Terror. Failed

Of course the government refuses to acknowledge this simple fact. I bet before the end of the decade we'll be declaring war on something else. Racism sounds like a good one. Let's declare war on racism.

War on poverty. . . . more on poverty as a result.
War on drugs. . . . . . . more on drugs as a result.
War on terror. . . . . . . . . more terrorists as a result.

Why in the hell can't they do a war on cheerleaders? A war on scotch?

reply to post by SaturnFX


Business Friendly Laws ....

Higher Tariffs on Foreign Imports
Tax Incentives for U.S. Companies that Produce their Products on U.S. Soil
Tax Penalties for U.S. Companies that Don't
More Stricter Leglistration against Union Backed Strikes on Key U.S. Industries
New Legislation to Limit the EPA's Powers
Eliminate Minimum Wage Laws
More Federal Regulations to Control Banks To Big to Fail
Eliminate The Federal Reserve Bank


These are just some Ideas to help the U.S. Economy right now .

You can now procede to Flame all my Suggestions if you wish , but the Fact remains that the U.S. Economy is on the Verge of Collapse if some of the things I mentioned are not Seriously considered in the near Future.....

Zanti Misfit
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Business Friendly Laws ....

Higher Tariffs on Foreign Imports
Tax Incentives for U.S. Companies that Produce their Products on U.S. Soil
Tax Penalties for U.S. Companies that Don't
More Federal Regulations to Control Banks To Big to Fail
Eliminate The Federal Reserve Bank

Never Happen.
Some of the Pro Wall Street People I have talked to are the biggest proponents for this Globalist Utopia.
They do not believe in looking after the best interests of this nation, but what is in their portfolio.
Exploiting Cheap Overseas Labor and selling the products made back to Americans in this global market place is all they care about.

Your plans would help America and harm their pocket book.

As long as Wall Street and the Multi national Corporations have a strangle hold on our government, nothing is going to change

reply to post by jacobe001


" As long as Wall Street and the Multi national Corporations have a strangle hold on our government, nothing is going to change "


Well , you Know that could change IF Certain Segments of the American populace Decided to hurt these Corporate Tyrants in their Bottom Line by Organized Protests , Lawsuits , and Removing Certain Congressman and Senators known for being in the Pocket of Corporate Lobbiests . Another way would be Boycotting Companies Products that they are affiliated with . It does all start in the Voting Booth though if we Really want to take this Country back you see..........

Zanti Misfit
reply to post by jacobe001

 

" As long as Wall Street and the Multi national Corporations have a strangle hold on our government, nothing is going to change "


Well , you Know that could change IF Certain Segments of the American populace Decided to hurt these Corporate Tyrants in their Bottom Line by Organized Protests , Lawsuits , and Removing Certain Congressman and Senators known for being in the Pocket of Corporate Lobbiests . Another way would be Boycotting Companies Products that they are affiliated with . It does all start in the Voting Booth though if we Really want to take this Country back you see..........

Don't worry, our highly trained police and riot cops will keep you from affecting any REAL change in our government.