Scale Of Universe Revealed In New Ultraprecise Galaxy Map

The theory of relativity says that nothing can travel faster than light.

I say false.

Light is a wave and travels like all waves - that is - its speed is dependent on medium.

Matter does not behave like waves, and its speed is not limited to speed of light.

Science is confused by vacuum of space, as science is confused by 'energy'. The space does have something in which light can travel. It just does not have 'matter' as we see it.

My statements are too advanced for today's science. It will take a long time before earth humans (current society) reach this conclusion.

I just want to add this to no one in particular.

The people who come in here and pretend that they understand a finite Universes or infinite universes, in real life application, because they read a book about black holes or they have a rudimentary grasp of relativity are the ones that look uneducated.
You try to discuss something real..trying to get real ideas formulated and the say they can only laugh at you or you don't understand.

I understand that you have no more clue about it than I do. And likely less.

If you are telling me that infinity in real life application is something that your mind can wrap around I say stop being delusional. If you can understand then you should be able to explain to all of the physicists that have dedicated their lives to trying to understanding as well as to me. Please provide that knowledge to us. Please do not quote the quantum mechanics of teacup in motion or the spiral momentum of solid in gaseous state the fodder you use to distract the feeble into believing you understand ...I know that you only do that so you may pretend that you know what you are talking about..and you will assume that if I don't know the weight of Jeep Cherokee on the moon then I am an idiot. If you understand what you are talking about then you should be able to explain it to me..simply.

Anyone care to explain how they Know the Universe is infinite or finite? So all of us can understand it?

Didn't think so...but pretending to know something and being able to fool others..does get you lots of stars. congrats sincerely.

Peace

Explore it in your imagination. That's your only choice. None of us are ever going to get off this teensy, tiny little spinning ball of rock, except those going into the arms of Jesus when they die.

Imagination and virtual exploration are the way to go. We should be concentrating our energies on that.

Blue Shift
Explore it in your imagination. That's your only choice. None of us are ever going to get off this teensy, tiny little spinning ball of rock, except those going into the arms of Jesus when they die.

Imagination and virtual exploration are the way to go. We should be concentrating our energies on that.

Luddite.

reply to post by GargIndia

Can you please include the evidence you are quoting in your post before giving a link.

The time dilation is a theory. It is not proven by evidence.

It is proven. Theory is backed by empirical evidence. I think you are confusing hypothesis with the layman term of theory.

www.nytimes.com...

www.nature.com...

einstein.stanford.edu...

Let me give you an example. If you are on a spaceship which is travelling at the same speed as light (or even faster than light), you are not supposed to age at all due to this theory.

No Sir! You will age and time will elapse despite your speed.

Relative to the observer. If one of us is on the event horizon of a black hole, and the other is comfortably on Earth, one person is going to live many years more (in their eyes) than the other. (minus the effects of the black hole.)

spav5

Anyone care to explain how they Know the Universe is infinite or finite? So all of us can understand it?

You must have overlooked my post. Go back a page.


Before the "big bang" occurred (or any other theory on how the universe came to be) there was absolutely nothing. This is all you have to understand. Once you can grasp the concept of 'nothing' then you already understand what infinite is too. 'Nothing' by its very nature allows infinite to be possible - they are one and the same.

Again, before the universe began there was nothing. There is still nothing - it's just that some of it has be consumed by the universe. Beyond that, though, there is an unlimited amount of "nothing" to still consume. We know this because there isn't currently anything else existing there to prevent existence from consuming more of it as soon as it gets there.

A psychological barrier that prevents people from understanding this concept is that they think the universe takes up ALL of the nothing, that once was. In reality however, even though the universe is tremendously vast, it is only floating around in it.
Just because there is existence within the confines of the known universe doesn't mean that outside of it existence is - because it isn't; there is still nothing.


Of course I am just pretending that I understand this though - I don't really know and couldn't possibly comprehend something that a professor of astrophysics hasn't figured out yet... The difference between myself and the profs is this; I don't care how it is because there is no need to answer that question.

GargIndia

boncho

GargIndia
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

What if space and time are independent.

Time always advances, space does not.

There is no need of wrapping or bending of time-space as you call it. These are theories yet unproven by evidence. These things should not be called science at all.

It's called space-time. A concept. And it's fruits are backed by empirical evidence.

Link

Link

Whether or not it is the most accurate model that can be used to describe reality, is besides the point.

edit on 10-1-2014 by boncho because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-1-2014 by boncho because: (no reason given)

Can you please include the evidence you are quoting in your post before giving a link.

The time dilation is a theory. It is not proven by evidence.

Let me give you an example. If you are on a spaceship which is travelling at the same speed as light (or even faster than light), you are not supposed to age at all due to this theory.

No Sir! You will age and time will elapse despite your speed.

Time dilation is not a theory for a long time. It has been proven and is used in everyday life. Without this 'theory' you wouldn't have GPS or satellite communication. Scientists have to adjust clocks every now and then because time in space and here on earth runs differently. Tests were done on trains too and were proven correct. Faster you move, slower the time is.

Theory with traveling at the same speed as light cannot be tested, because matter can't travel at the light speed because it would require infinite amount of energy.

DeadSeraph

neo96
Seems to me when the universe is constantly expanding 'infinite' seems to be correct.

When everything is constantly in motion rather hard to 'quantify' it.

Right ?

But if it's expanding then it has to have an "end" to expand into, doesn't it?

Someone might have mentioned this already, but I think of it like this, given (im assuming here) the universe is expanding at a speed faster than we could ever catch up with to the edge or 'end' of it, for all intensive purposes it is and for ever will be infinite... should we ever try and find the extents of it.

Thing is, just as we have solar systems within galaxies... then why not multipal universes within the same reality, meaning more than one big bang but at such a huge distance between them that they will for all intensive purposes never meet while expanding. Or if there is only one universe per reality, then for all we know with multipal realities/universes each one resides like a cell in an organism a self contained unit, that sits along side uncountable others.

Ive always liked that galaxy map that looks oddly like neurons in a brain, with large clusters of galaxies linked by big strands of others. Who knows ive always enjoyed the idea we are simply the 'quarks' on the protons of the nucleus of some sort of super atom that makes up some other thing so vast and so unimaginable we'll never know, nor will it ever know we or it exist... and perhaps expansion of the universe, is actually simply the growth of what ever this thing is.

Sort of makes you think about life, the universe and your place in it... and just how petty the stupidly bad things we do make us look, not that the universe would care.

reply to post by crzayfool


"there was nothing before big bang"

This is a very silly statement.

The basic fact is that there is conservation of matter as well as energy. That is matter changes shape, and energy changes place but neither gets destroyed.

If something does not get destroyed, how can it be created? Because if it is created 'out of nothing', the process of creation will run away and never stop.

As far as "expanding universe" is concerned, we must understand one thing very clearly - everything is moving in the Universe. Our galaxy is moving in space as well. It is documented that our own galaxy has increased in size after consuming another galaxy; and still one galaxy is moving towards milky way. If the universe was expanding endlessly as in an explosion and filling endless space, then there is no way something of galaxy size would fall into milky way.

The issue of expanding universe is quite complex and far from settled.

reply to post by BigfootNZ


Do we have multiple universes?

Let me start with a simple argument. If you can have two, you can have 10 as well. If you can have 10, you can have 100 as well. Then there should well be an infinite number of universes as there is no known process that can stop this creation of universes.

The argument of multiple universe (or multiverse) is hollow. There is no observation or proof except some theory proposed by some people.

All we can say is that Universe is so huge that its extent is beyond understanding of humans. That is the right way to put it.

boncho
reply to post by GargIndia

 

Can you please include the evidence you are quoting in your post before giving a link.

The time dilation is a theory. It is not proven by evidence.

It is proven. Theory is backed by empirical evidence. I think you are confusing hypothesis with the layman term of theory.

www.nytimes.com...

www.nature.com...

einstein.stanford.edu...

Let me give you an example. If you are on a spaceship which is travelling at the same speed as light (or even faster than light), you are not supposed to age at all due to this theory.

No Sir! You will age and time will elapse despite your speed.

Relative to the observer. If one of us is on the event horizon of a black hole, and the other is comfortably on Earth, one person is going to live many years more (in their eyes) than the other. (minus the effects of the black hole.)

Can we rise above terminology?

Please provide a link to an experiment that proves time-dilation.

As far as event-horizon and what happens there (in reference to black hole) - is there any observational basis.

Science cannot be pure mathematics. Mathematics is fitted to observed phenomena as nature is organized into mathematical patterns. But mathematics cannot be arbitrarily fitted into nature.

The modern science has taken on many characteristics of "religion", for example the faith part. It should not be that way.

Science is called 'vigyan' in Sanskrit. 'vigyan' is different from 'gyan', in the sense that 'vigyan' is only what can be directly observed.

reply to post by GargIndia

Can we rise above terminology?

Please provide a link to an experiment that proves time-dilation.

As far as event-horizon and what happens there (in reference to black hole) - is there any observational basis.

Time dilation is observed in many cases, including space-flight and communications satellites. Forget a black hole. Yes, no observational data on how it works. Does it matter?

You are moving goal posts. First you say time dilation has no evidence to support it, then you say, well, we need to see a black hole . I was merely pointing it out as an easy reference.

NIST did a time dilation experiment.

You have all these ones from the 70s

GPS and time dilation

More on that…

…and some more

spav5
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

Mainstream nonsense. How can you add to infinity? Without redefining it as "almost" infinite. which is just another word for finite.


Peace

So, I'm curious...are you just an obstinate person in general? Because you have nothing to back up what you are saying. And quite frankly, even when you look up the definition of infinite (here, let me do it for you..)

in·fi·nite
ˈinfənit/
adjective
adjective: infinite

1.
limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; impossible to measure or calculate.
"the infinite mercy of God"
synonyms: boundless, unbounded, unlimited, limitless, never-ending, interminable; More
immeasurable, fathomless, imponderable;
extensive, vast;
immense, great, huge, enormous
"the universe is infinite"
countless, uncountable, inestimable, innumerable, numberless, immeasurable, incalculable, untold, myriad
"infinite resources"
antonyms: limited, small
very great in amount or degree.
"he bathed the wound with infinite care"
Mathematics
greater than any assignable quantity or countable number.
Mathematics
(of a series) able to be continued indefinitely.
2.
Grammar
another term for nonfinite.

noun
noun: infinite

1.
a space or quantity that is infinite.



At no point does anything come close to saying you cannot add to something which is infinite. One might say that the ocean is infinite in it's gallons of water. Yet, I can certainly unzip my trousers and add to the volume of that ocean....


Think things through. THEN speak.

boncho
reply to post by GargIndia

 

Can we rise above terminology?

Please provide a link to an experiment that proves time-dilation.

As far as event-horizon and what happens there (in reference to black hole) - is there any observational basis.

Time dilation is observed in many cases, including space-flight and communications satellites. Forget a black hole. Yes, no observational data on how it works. Does it matter?

You are moving goal posts. First you say time dilation has no evidence to support it, then you say, well, we need to see a black hole . I was merely pointing it out as an easy reference.

NIST did a time dilation experiment.

You have all these ones from the 70s

GPS and time dilation

More on that…

…and some more

There are defects in experiments.

This happens when a theory comes first and then experiments are designed to prove the theory.

I can point out defects in each experiment. Please open a new thread on Time Dilation Experiments.

The amplitude of vibration of atoms will increase with input of energy (acceleration), thus causing increase in wavelength, so time as counted by frequency may appear slower to humans.
However it is merely the way we are measuring time that shows variance.

Human life is no way connected to this 'artificial time'. A human will die at certain age even if you fly him non-stop at light speed. This age will not differ from age if he was stationary.

reply to post by GargIndia

I can point out defects in each experiment. Please open a new thread on Time Dilation Experiments.

That thread would be too advanced for any of us simple humans to understand. In your own words:

My statements are too advanced for today's science. It will take a long time before earth humans (current society) reach this conclusion.

GargIndia
reply to post by crzayfool

 

"there was nothing before big bang"

This is a very silly statement.

It is only a silly statement if you do not understand what "Nothing" is and you believe that there was something before the universe started.

The basic fact is that there is a conservation of matter as well as energy. That is matter changes shape, and energy changes place but neither gets destroyed.

If something does not get destroyed, how can it be created? Because if it is created 'out of nothing', the process of creation will run away and never stop.

Energy isn't something that is physically waiting to move from one state to another always ready to pounce. In fact it doesn't even exist on its own - it cannot be without something else, 'Matter', to carry it. If there is no transfer of energy then there is also an absence of matter too because of the lack of transfer - equaling nothing... because of this it would stand to reason that energy and matter are indeed the same thing; as one cannot exist without the other. (Anyone ever heard of a wave also being a particle?).

As I have stated before in a previous post, 'There is a physical limit/edge to where our universe has currently expanded to', so what would you say is on the outside of it if there is no matter or energy there?
If there is no matter there then there cannot be any energy, so therefore there is nothing and our universe, as it approaches that physical edge witnesses that there is more "nothing" to go into -and does, forever.

It's making it as it goes just as you have said,

'...If it is created 'out of nothing', the process of creation will run away and never stop...'

boncho
reply to post by GargIndia

 

I can point out defects in each experiment. Please open a new thread on Time Dilation Experiments.

That thread would be too advanced for any of us simple humans to understand. In your own words:

My statements are too advanced for today's science. It will take a long time before earth humans (current society) reach this conclusion.

No, I will tell you in simple English the defects of each experiment.

It is not at all difficult to fly a clock at very high speed. I shall tell you a simple experiment how you can achieve that.

There is a difference in matter and "spirituality". We never try to design experiment for spirituality, and each person has to experience that in own life by using our methods.

reply to post by crzayfool


I think you do justice to your nickname, that is all I can say.

I would be very happy if somebody can make sense out of your post.

reply to post by GargIndia


Not gonna say your wrong or that im right, after all none of us either laymen or genius really know either way. All I was saying is looking at what we know of the small little corner of the universe we reside in to my eyes at least I get the feeling we're part of something big, that for all in tensive purposes could well be alive, if not self aware (my multiverse anaogy is basically to say maybe every universe is like a form of cell on a level so big its unimaginable, so who knows what sort of thing a multiverse might actually be, then again it could all just be a bunch of separate unrelated or linked realities, or just one big one with the idea of multiverses being a load of old bollocks, but I personally like the idea). We will never know, but the idea isnt with out merit, what does a bacteria think or perceive of you as it slithers across the surface of your skin, to them we are worlds with a surface area, millions of times bigger than our own planet.

I put us and our planet in a similar situation when put in place within the universe. We have ecosystems built on top of ecosystems expanding outward everywhere in life, why not the galaxies and the universe as the next layer above our planets own, if the biosphere of earths is a living thing that shifts and moves and self regulates like an organism then why not the things beyond it and us?

Im happy to think that perhaps im not really free willed and my existence is really some sort of specific reaction or microscopic effect in a huge thing bigger than myself... maybe thats all we are, complex, giant microscopic interacting chemical reactions in the body of something incomprehensible.

Sure its beyond our comprehension, I know it is, but we can dream and postulate cant we... thats whats fun we humans like to make assumptions and imagine what could be's without first having the full knowledge or even any knowledge at all, its what in my mind makes us special.

reply to post by BigfootNZ


The Vedic teacher says God made a wonderful creation - full of miracles and surprises.

So you are right in wondering and not grasping what you see.

Can anybody count the stars in the sky? People are trying now with telescopes and super-computers but a definitive answer has not come.

There is so much a human cannot fathom, though we are all trying to understand.

The problem is made simple only when we know about three eternal and fundamental entities - 'prakriti' - the non-alive matter, countless but finite souls (alive) and a single God (alive).

God has made this creation called Universe. God has given souls a body made of non-alive matter. No doubt this body is wonderful and full of surprises. It is because its Creator is very powerful and creative.

Vedic teacher says that the Universe is made for the souls - to live in material bodies. Since number of souls is finite, there is reason to think that Universe is finite too.

There is no need to believe in multiple universes. Such a theory is not supported by observation or logic.

However your soul itself has miraculous powers, including power of movement. The liberated soul can go anywhere - even center of a star, as soul is not affected by heat. The soul is eternal and beyond effects of matter like heat, cold, and wetness etc.