Science and the Afterlife Experience

reply to post by Aphorism


You don't have a library near you?

You have access to amazon, obviously: The book is only $11ish on kindle, or $15ish for a hard copy. I'm hanging onto mine, so that when the 'grid goes down' and the internet is history, SOMEONE will have the texts for future generations to look at.

Serdgiam
What mechanism do you think works behind the scenes on this, and how might we better understand and explore it?

There is only ever what is here now, here now looks different constantly. Death of the body is just the disappearance of yet another apparent object.
All that appears changes but there is something which does not appear - it is always (eternally) like this.
Apparent existence and not apparent existence at once.
No death - the show goes on.

Of course, because of you WT, and the books, this is on my mind 24/7. (yes, making me crazy a bit! )

This may be simplistic, or totally wrong, but this is what I've likened it to. (hope this comes out right)


You have your computer. You back all you info up to "the cloud". So if your computer is destroyed, all of your information is still available. If it is possible, why wouldn't a soul be?


Yes, I suck at getting the thoughts in my brain clarified on "paper", but this is the jist of it!!!

Itisnowagain
There is only ever what is here now but it just looks different constantly. Death of the body is just the disappearance of yet another apparent object.
All that appears changes but there is something which does not appear - it is always (eternally) like that.
Apparent existence and not apparent existence at once.
No death - the show goes on.

So, how do you feel the constantly changing changes, and how do you feel it interacts with the constant "no-thing?"

When we explore those avenues, we are not only able to better communicate it with each other.. but we are also able to create devices to better utilize the "apparent existence and not apparent existence" in the form of everything from computers to education.

Serdgiam

BlueMule
Do you think a mechanism is necessary?

I have no doubt this would occur in a predictable and consistent way, if it happens.

Really? That almost sounds like an article of faith.

We are talking about the domain of the psychopomp who is very often a trickster figure. Hermes for example. How well versed are you in trickster archetype scholarship?

reply to post by chiefsmom

You have your computer. You back all you info up to "the cloud". So if your computer is destroyed, all of your information is still available. If it is possible, why wouldn't a soul be?

I like it!!

An anecdote....:
I had a gateway PC running XP. It died. We extracted the hard drive, and put it in a hard external case.
Then I had a laptop. It died, too. But I kept it because of what was on the hard-drive and not on a flash drive.

I went to see about having the laptop fixed after I got a new one - and asked about recovering the data from the two hard drives - yes, they can do it. Easy peasy. Have a spent the money to do so yet? Nope. But, I have the discs - and if I NEED to get data off of them, I CAN.

I like your analogy a lot!

BlueMule
Really? That almost sounds like an article of faith.

We are talking about the domain of the psychopomp who is vary often a trickster figure. Hermes for example. How well versed are you in trickster scholarship?

Just because it happens in a consistent fashion doesnt necessarily mean that it will be in a way that we can even comprehend. In this particular arena though, I think that there is a strong possibility that we can explore it scientifically (and we are). I am not talking about through the paradigm of scientific knowledge we currently possess, more the core method of scientific exploration.

And sure, you could call it faith.

Serdgiam

Itisnowagain
There is only ever what is here now but it just looks different constantly. Death of the body is just the disappearance of yet another apparent object.
All that appears changes but there is something which does not appear - it is always (eternally) like that.
Apparent existence and not apparent existence at once.
No death - the show goes on.

So, how do you feel the constantly changing changes, and how do you feel it interacts with the constant "no-thing?"

The 'constantly changing' is just arising unconditionally.
It is the 'no thing' which is changing - there is no interaction.

It is no thing which appears to be happening.


No thing can appear to separate itself from itself and be divided and then long to be whole again. When it is divided it believes in finite things and identifies itself as finite - it has concepts of death - it fears not being until it realizes that it is not being and being (all that is).

reply to post by Aphorism

Take a quick read:

The Prophet

Who should I believe?

Ah, another 'discrediting' article. Thanks. How did I guess??

Yeah - believe whoever you want. It won't make any difference in the end.

reply to post by wildtimes


Yes it does a great job of showing his inconsistencies and contradictions and flat-out fictions if you ever step out of your comfort zone to read it. You can believe those things if you wish. The best part about the article, however, is even the Dalai Lama laughs at his story. It's a little cherry on top.

Itisnowagain
It is no thing which appears to be happening.

No thing can appear to separate itself from itself and be divided and then long to be whole again. When it is divided it believes in finite things and identifies itself as finite - it has concepts of death - it fears not being until it realizes that it is not being and being (all that is).

How would you write that "word problem" into an equation?

Serdgiam

BlueMule
Really? That almost sounds like an article of faith.

We are talking about the domain of the psychopomp who is vary often a trickster figure. Hermes for example. How well versed are you in trickster scholarship?

Just because it happens in a consistent fashion doesnt necessarily mean that it will be in a way that we can even comprehend. In this particular arena though, I think that there is a strong possibility that we can explore it scientifically (and we are). I am not talking about through the paradigm of scientific knowledge we currently possess, more the core method of scientific exploration.

If you're not talking about the dominant paradigm, then you're talking about the para-sciences. The para-sciences can only take us so far. They can show that there is a legitimate anomaly here, and can help make tentative models of it which we can fiddle with. But the only way for an individual to actually explore is through altered states of consciousness i.e. mysticism. And even then, there is the trickster archetype.

reply to post by Aphorism

if you ever step out of your comfort zone to read it. You can believe those things if you wish. The best part about the article, however, is even the Dalai Lama laughs at his story. It's a little cherry on top.

I just did read it.
And I saw the "Dalai Lama quote". As I said in the OP, there are ALWAYS scoffers. And the medical community has LOTS of reasons to discredit this stuff - so - it's kind of like politicians, isn't it? For every claim made, there's someone louder who makes a contradictory claim -
believe whoever you want. Is the guy a fraud? Maybe. So is James Randi. See how that works?

Again - what is it TO YOU, if there IS an afterlife?

I'm done responding to you, Aphorism. Others on the thread are working it through, and I prefer to discuss it further rather than defending myself to you. Thanks for playing 'materialist scoffer' - you've helped a lot. And thanks, yes, I'll believe what I choose to believe, based on 55 years of life experience, 18 years of formal schooling, 30+ years of independent study - and my own mind and common sense.

Good day to you, Sir. Fare well.

Serdgiam

Itisnowagain
It is no thing which appears to be happening.

No thing can appear to separate itself from itself and be divided and then long to be whole again. When it is divided it believes in finite things and identifies itself as finite - it has concepts of death - it fears not being until it realizes that it is not being and being (all that is).

How would you write that "word problem" into an equation?

Could you elaborate please, I am not sure I understand what you mean?

reply to post by Aphorism

Aphorism
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Witnesses to what happens after death? But they are still alive. They have not witnessed anything but what happens to them physiologically and mentally during this process. Death is the permanent cessation of biological processes.

Clinically dead is the ceasing of brain, lung, and heart function, or in other words, cardiac arrest. No function of major organs.
Thanks to modern technology however, we can now resuscitate people who have clinically died, even after several minutes in some cases.

And it's thanks to this technology that folks who have died and were brought back, have been able to speak about what happened while they were dead. Yes, you read it right. Dead, then alive again.

So no, death is not always permanent. And it seems we are getting a glimpse into what may happen once death does become permanent.

reply to post by Aphorism

Aphorism
Take a quick read: www.esquire.com...

Who should I believe?

1) Esquire.com is owned by the Hearst corporation.

2) Hearst Corporation is 100% kosher certified propaganda.

3) Cathie Black, Former Chairman/CEO of Hearst Magazines is married to Thomas Harvey, who just so HAPPENS to be a high level propaganda specialist of the the CIA...

“The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media.” – William Colby, former CIA director

This is an old clip showing admittance of the CIA that they use the mainstream media to manipulate the thoughts and ideas of American citizens in the USA. This has not changed obviously and is good to know happened in the past due to our reality today.

CIA Admits Using News To Manipulate the USA

The CIA took media manipulation to new heights of disinformation and propaganda, while pushing journalistic integrity to new lows. One thing the CIA understands well is that information is as good as gold, and he who controls information can use that data for political gain, power and wealth. With that premise in mind, the CIA began a project in the late 1940s known as “Operation Mockingbird.” FOIA documents were eventually uncovered that showed CIA agents openly bragging through interoffice memos that the agency had in place "important assets" within every major news organization in the U.S. In 1982, the CIA finally admitted to employing reporters on their payroll.

A great many of our hallowed media outlets are alleged to be involved with Project Mockingbird. They are rumored to include, ABC, CBS, and NBC."

"Other publications said to be involved are...Hearst Newspapers."

Who REALLY Controls The Mainstream Media

reply to post by wildtimes


That is fair enough, WildTimes.

Division before reconciliation. Dogma before compromise. Desire before knowledge. Lies before honesty. Hopes before truth.

reply to post by PhotonEffect

And it's thanks to this technology that folks who have died and were brought back, have been able to speak about what happened while they were dead. Yes, you read it right. Dead, then alive again.

So no, death is not always permanent. And it seems we are getting a glimpse into what may happen once death does become permanent.

Well, that would be going against the commonly used denotation for death. I could list numerous definitions of death that contradict yours.

BlueMule
If you're not talking about the dominant paradigm, then you're talking about the para-sciences. The para-sciences can only take us so far. They can show that there is a legitimate anomaly here, and can help make tentative models of it which we can fiddle with. But the only way for an individual to actually explore is through altered states of consciousness i.e. mysticism. And even then, there is the trickster archetype.

What a strange world we live in.. Where scientific exploration of the unknown is considered anything other than "science." Science has become an industry of sorts hasnt it? More concerned with preserving its own hide (see: funding) than actually exploring uncharted territory. So much so, that apparently, some have come up with a sub-label.

I think science directly involves the individual human experience, but this subjective facet is generally ignored by the industry of science and focused on almost exclusively by those "against" the industry of science. I am not sure this divisive approach is the most effective method in understanding "this."

I dont feel that science and mysticism are mutually exclusive. I see them as different lenses on the same camera that can bring different things into focus. Science tends to use the language of "math," which does have the advantage of allowing us to utilize the knowledge in generally distributed innovations, such as a transistor.

All that said, this thread is about science and its application to the "afterlife." A subject which I find extremely interesting, but one that is rife with division and extreme polarization. In keeping to the original subject, I think that the first avenue to be explored, scientifically, is to expand our knowledge of electromagnetism. Its a very wide array of manifestations, and I dont think we have explored how these interact with biological systems thoroughly enough. There are other possibilities as well, including many that havent even crossed my mind, but may have crossed others.

If you feel that science will never be able to explore these things, that is absolutely fine. Its just that we would be having a divisive conversation, much akin to Aphorism and his presence. I want to speak about how to actively explore this using science, talk about new methods that we can use, new canyons to map and you are speaking about how such things are impossible.

I have already explored these things through "mysticism" and direct experience. Now I wish to explore it with science. I think its possible. Faith-based? Perhaps.. but no more so than assuming its impossible.

reply to post by Aphorism

Aphorism
Well, that would be going against the commonly used denotation for death. I could list numerous definitions of death that contradict yours.

Citing more propaganda would most likely do very little to boost your credibility.

You will NEVER find the truth as long as you keep your eyes focused on things such as CIA sponsored propaganda.

A perfect example of this is the "Lazarus Phenomenon".

The MSM won't TOUCH the subject simply because if they do, they will find themselves working at McD's tomorrow.

For example:

Ian was night diving off the island of Mauritius when he was stung multiple times by Box Jellyfish, which are among the most venomous creatures in the world. His testimony relates how he clung to life while getting to hospital, was declared clinically dead soon afterwards, and how during this time he had an encounter with Jesus, which radically changed the direction of his life. www.abovetopsecret.com...