Science and the Afterlife Experience

reply to post by Aphorism

And you will not even look at the evidence to the opposite of your claims.

Not true.
I have looked, and continue to look.... at as much evidence either way as I can get my hands on.


So - are you implying that you will, now, look at the evidence that opposes your claims?


Ball's in your court......

whatnext21
We do leave a note behind it is our remains. It is the way that our loved ones know we have ceased to exist on this earth. Could you imagine if you took your body with you when you die there would be no closure for anyone just as people that do disappear and the grief the family goes through not knowing whether they are alive or dead.

As for belief in the afterlife, yes I firmly believe there is somewhere else after this. The only way you truly experience this is to be with a person who is dying and in the final days or hours before death. What happens is enlightening. My mom was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in September and gone by mid-February of the next year. Near the end, she was talking to a space above us near the ceiling on another level. There were many things that happened but I am not going into great detail, lets just say once you have experienced this, you will never forget, nor be a skeptic.

Another thing I have wondered about and thinking about loved ones and their experiences with life threatening illness or accidents is the Exit Points we choose before beginning our lives here. When I was in my teens I had an operation and remember leaving my body and floating over but did not leave the operating room but watched them trying to revive me. I had an allergic reaction to one of the anesthetics used at the time. I came back but remember it like it was yesterday. That was exit 1. I have gone many years since that one, my next and probably final exit point is Diabetes Type 1. Since I was diagnosed with this at 37 and have had some really low lows that could have easily put me in a coma. This is Exit 2. In 2007 I had 2 Exits 3 and 4, the first being some kind of an allergic reaction with hives and very low BP and an appendix attack and nearly died, so now I think number 5 is on my doorstep, not sure how long before this one happens. Not for a while I hope.

If anyone thinks back are there exit points that you have had and chose not to take? Although this is sort of off topic I think it is all related and if you believe in an afterlife, we all planned this life with things to accomplish and exits we choose to leave it once this is done...

Oh by the way you can read as many books as you want but until you experience any of this first hand you can't comprehend.

So what people have to say here doesn't seem to matter because the thread has taken on a bash me, bash you cause you don't feel the same way I do about something that matters way more than anything we do in this life, carry on, I am done and I will report this behaviour.

reply to post by whatnext21


Wait!!! What?

Is anyone bashing you??

I'm intensely interested in this subject, and I starred your post.
Please don't leave!! Help give us more information.

Oh by the way you can read as many books as you want but until you experience any of this first hand you can't comprehend.

Quite. Like becoming a parent. You can't understand it until you are one.

I'd like to hear from as many people as possible who CAN tell me what it is...this experience.
There is only 1 person who is "bashing" - the rest of us are very, very open to your thoughts.

reply to post by whatnext21

The only way you truly experience this is to be with a person who is dying and in the final days or hours before death.

Exactly - and I was, in the last days of July and earliest of Aug, 2010. My dad was dying. I spent every day with him for as long as I could - and was the last one to lay beside him holding his hand; to bring him a book about National Parks that he loved so we could look through it together....

I was the one who walked his shuffled-off body out to the 'hearse' with the attendants...

I know what you mean!! And I had signs afterward that he was 'messaging me.'

Anyway, I've written about this experience here before; probably bores some of the members by now....

but, it's important to discuss.

Thanks for chiming in, anyway. Hope to run across you again.

reply to post by wildtimes


We did the same with my mom, we were there with her the night that she died and it was so difficult, its funny they say that the dying have a burst of energy and clarity of their senses and faculties which my mom did that day. She was diagnosed with Alzheimers a year before she got sick but those last days she knew exactly what she was saying. She told me that she loved me and that I was her favourite. She had a final drink of hot chocolate that day and you would think it was the best thing in the world as she seemed to savour those few sips like she was a kid again. Later that night she settled into the final stages of death with the almost comatose sleep state, the death rattle and mottling of the extremities.

I don't want to make this sound morbid because it wasn't she was in another world and i believe that (no, I do not have proof) she was being visited by close people who had passed on before her, like her mom, brother and others. But the thing that really startled my sisters and brother was that around 10:30 pm she woke from her death. She sat right up and was waving her hands and talking to a space near the corner of the room, her colour came back and she cleared her throat of the flem that is the reason for the death rattle.

When the nurse came she gave her morophine and she settled back down and said that mom should be around a little while longer and that we should go home and get some rest. Mom died at 4am that morning. She did not want to go with us there I believe.

If more people give their own first hand accounts it is more telling than any book that can be written.

Oh my husband died of cancer too and he lived one hell of a life he always tried to find the easy way and did many things that one would consider not nice. He was very active that morning too (that final burst of energy) but when he died, he did not have a peaceful death and the last words he said was 'Oh F..' and he had a look on his face that was far from peaceful. True story. So although this is not meant to scare, I am sure that he did not like what he saw.

reply to post by whatnext21


Thank you so much!!!

Yes, I fed Dad his last few mouthfuls of melon that morning.

While the story of your husband is out of my realm of experience, I believe you. I don't know if you've studied NDE research and experiences much...but; in any case, I'm totally on board with your thinking.

Thanks again.

reply to post by wildtimes

Not true.
I have looked, and continue to look.... at as much evidence either way as I can get my hands on.


So - are you implying that you will, now, look at the evidence that opposes your claims?


Ball's in your court......

Well I have looked and always do.

Would you mind posting some examples of your proof so that I may see it?

reply to post by Aphorism


Now you are just wasting others' time and the site's bandwidth. Read the books written by the author...
go all the way back to the OP, first page, and look at the sources; order and read the books.

Then come back and try to discuss it. (Mr Randi? Is that you? Sorry - your cover is blown).

Now, Aphorism, kindly stop trolling the thread, or I will alert the mods.

reply to post by Aphorism

Aphorism
There is no proof. Over 150, 000 people die each day, yet out of all these cases, not a single anything has been found to remain.

Sounds like a severe case of denial to me...

I can think of two examples off the top of my head that completely destroy your argument.

Countless people have come back with proof that what they saw was VERY much real:

"Colton, still 4 years old, told his mother “you had a baby die in your tummy didn’t you”, which completely shocked them both because they had never told him about their miscarriage. They asked him how he knew and he said that he met his sister in Heaven and she told him what happened."

"Well he’s 7 years old now and it took a couple of years for his parents to really understand what happened, but when Colton Burpo was four years he was having surgery in the hospital for a burst appendix. While he was in surgery he apparently had some sort of out of body experience and could see what his parents were doing. He witnessed that his dad was praying and his mom on her cellphone. Both parents say they have no clue how he knew that, but that it’s absolutely true. And the story just gets more interesting from there.

Apparently during the same surgery Colton went to Heaven where he recounts how he met his grandfather who he had never known, who he later recognized in photos. The interesting thing is that he didn’t recognize photos of his grandfather as an old man with glasses, which is how everyone knew him, but rather as a young man. Colton’s father literally had go find a photo of ‘Pop’ as a young man before Colton was able to recognize him. Now that’s pretty wild.

Four year old met his mother’s miscarried child in Heaven

"Dr. Rodonaia was killed by the KGB, pronounced dead, taken to the morgue for three days and returned to life during his own autopsy. Dr. Rodonaia was a psychiatric researcher who worked for the KGB and later became a dissident. He was a scientist trained in historical materialism and did not believe in God."

"George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. Prior to his NDE he worked as a neuropathologist. He was also an avowed atheist.

LINK

reply to post by Aphorism


I feel sorry for you, you must not have anyone close to you or who has gone through this to provide you with your own first hand experience. No book in the world is going to satisfy your need for proof. Proof is in the eye of the beholder.

reply to post by wildtimes


In other words you have none? I'm willing to look at the proof that you said you have. If you're going to throw a book in my face, I should mention that someone's book doesn't constitute proof. You might as well throw a bible at my face.

reply to post by Murgatroid


Oh you have youtube videos. This is what you're saying I am in denial of?

reply to post by whatnext21

I feel sorry for you, you must not have anyone close to you or who has gone through this to provide you with your own first hand experience. No book in the world is going to satisfy your need for proof. Proof is in the eye of the beholder.

Experience of what? You feel sorry someone you've never met. I'm beginning to see a trend.

reply to post by Aphorism


LAME
Throw a "Bible" at you?
Erm, sorry, don't have one handy. Don't pay any attention to it ....

Seriously, WHAT IS IT TO YOU? What if there IS proof? WHY are you so pissy about this, "Mr Randi"????
lol

You want me to become a scientist and invite you to the experiment? That will take time and money: if you'd like to give me a grant, I'll do my best.

Otherwise,
You are being ridiculous. Read the book(s), or don't. I don't care.
Either tell us WHY you refuse to even entertain the notion, or..... well, move on.
The door is over there ------------------------>

reply to post by wildtimes

LAME

Seriously, WHAT IS IT TO YOU? What if there IS proof? WHY are you so pissy about this, Mr Randi????

You want me to become a scientist and invite you to the experiment?

You are being ridiculous. Read the book(s), or don't. I don't care. You are being ridiculous.
Either tell us WHY you refuse to even entertain the notion, or..... well, move on.
The door is over there ------------------------>

Fine. Attack me as a person. It's quite typical. But I see what your "proof" amounts to, nothing but blind conviction in someone else's story. Bravo.

reply to post by Aphorism

But I see what your "proof" amounts to, nothing but blind conviction in someone else's story. Bravo.

As I've said:
go back to the very beginning of the thread. Look at the sources, and read the evidence for yourself. The author has looked at BOTH SIDES of the 'argument' - and the DATA from recorded, scientific experiments SHOWS that your denial is unfounded.

Or, don't. As I said to you early on.

--------------------------

BTW, this was my last response to your trolling. Have a good night; good life; good thread;.....good luck!

reply to post by wildtimes

BTW, this was my last response to your trolling. Have a good night; good life; good thread;.....good luck!

Thanks for writing a controversial piece. Every thread needs some criticism. I'll look through the evidence. No hard feelings.

reply to post by wildtimes


Now I may be obtuse, but I am unable to find any evidence in your initial post. I just wish to see the same evidence you yourself looked at so that I may take a look and make a conclusion.

reply to post by Aphorism


Line #1 of the OP links to the book(s) that contain(s) the evidence.

Chris Carter: Science and The Afterlife Experience

The very first line of the OP. It's centered. At the very top, the first line, of the OP, centered.

:eyeroll:

reply to post by sulaw

Call me crazy~

Crazy~

I couldn't agree more.

This is nothing new

You're right, It's really not. It's been the philosophy of life since antiquity and so has reincarnation. The ultimate goal is liberation, or so I think.

Here on Earth for example, we all long to be "free". Our spirits want out of here. We are boggled down in and out of matter. Science tells me we are full of energy. We have electrical brains.. I somehow think our brains are some type of conduit or medium for the energy we house. Energy is another force we all want and need, we feel ALIVE.

Philosophies differ, however I have to say some of our greatest thinkers were deep thinkers and ones who speak and act wise beyond their years. Probably 90% believed in an afterlife.

My 16 yr old the other day was telling me how he doesn't like living in America. He say's we are not free and we fear our Government and "that's not the way I want to live". He's right though, we all want freedom.

Here on Earth we struggle, we go through trials and tribulations and each of us have a story. Each "thing" has a story when you think about it.

It seems like "mans story" is what this experience is all about.