Science and the Afterlife Experience

reply to post by chiefsmom

While I won't speak for wildtimes, for me, that also seems to "help" the cause of reincarnation as well. If you choose not to believe, that is ok, but very interesting to me, in lieu of everything you have written so far.

I agree, chiefsmom.

cloudwatcher chooses to disbelieve; I'm still sorting through her posts to try to get her point nailed down (still drinking me tea).

As for being "born again alive" - what I mean is our Oversoul, our Consistent Eternal Higher Self, which never dies, returns to a new body with its 'essence' in tact.

Again, and I can't stress this enough - reincarnation (to my understanding -- NOTE: this is for the rest of the readers more so than you, since we're 'on the same page', chiefsmom) does not mean you come back as your same flesh and blood with your same daily-life memoirs fully intact.

Yesterday I was thinking about babies - and how we universally (nearly universally) do not "remember" being born, or much of our first 4-5 years. Bits and pieces, snatches of scenes, impressions, sure....but...

if one spends time with enough infants (and I've done so with dozens upon dozens of them) - in each one's eyes there is a 'knowing', yet a 'bewilderment'. And EACH AND EVERY ONE has a distinct temperament, personality, sentitivities, and inborn talents...

why is it we don't 'remember' our earliest years? Is it to allow us time to 'regroup' once we're here again? Why are memories of past lives most prominent in children of that age???

It seems that when we are born into Earthly human form again, we need those first years to 'readjust', to 'acclimate' ourselves - like some sort of ethereal "jet lag" thing...almost a waking 'coma' - we could say - as our oversoul once more remembers how to 'ride this bike'.....and which tricks it is intent on learning.

I'm composing as I go along here, and this musing popped again into my head this morning while browsing the forums and the threads....

what do you think? Is the FACT that babies are born with personalities and temperaments unique to themselves - combined with the FACT that most people do not consciously REMEMBER their infancy and earliest years - plus the FACT that small children do speak matter-of-factly about past lives, with much conviction ---
all tie in to more evidence for reincarnation?

Ugh, my thoughts are racing now...I'll just leave it at that for now to see what others think. Enough stream of consciousness babblings from me about my latest "aHA!" musings.

reply to post by wildtimes


Yeah, what you said WT is spot on. There are way too many experiences had with this "natural" evolution for us not to accept it. Just too many accounts that tell us the same thing.

We know what we know.

reply to post by wildtimes


LOL STAY OUT OF MY HEAD!!!!!

I know it was for others, but pretty uncanny how I could have typed the same thing, only it would have been probably less clear.

I have too many wires crossed, from my brain to my fingers!

reply to post by Gryphon66


Gryph
I actually made a thread on my NDE, but I shall not make you read it all to find out the answers to your questions.

I actually interacted with beings. I seen my body lying on the table and then floated around the hospital. I was looking down when I seen my sister and her mother come in. I was aware of my surroundings. Then I returned to where my body lay, and it was like I re-entered it. I then sat up in bed when 3 tall beings cloaked in light just appeared next to me in the room. Then 3 little beings cloaked in light entered the room and told me that I had died. They told me that I had to be reborn because I had to go back. I asked them questions, they answered. All through telepathy. My mouth never moved. I did get up off the table and walk out of the room where one of the beings took me by the hand and assured me that all would be ok.

They led me to another room that I do not believe was earthly. They told me that instinct would take over and that it would be like I was inside my mothers womb again. I was placed inside a small clear walled room that had a weird looking black chair in the middle of it. I sat in that chair, feeling angst and fear. They somehow were able to calm my fears and the room began to fill up with this pinkish clear liquid that I smelled, tasted and felt. That is when I entered the light.

In the light is where the man came to me and told me that I had to choose to go back. This man, was the same man from a dream that I very very very clearly remember as a child. The feeling there was the most awesome thing I have ever felt in my life. I had lived many years sick and in pain. I remembered that no more. I did not remember ever having children or having to suffer. He brought me to remembrance and gave me clear instructions on how to get out and return to my children...

I remember waking up in the hospital and looking at my mother saying, "I'm alive mommy." She said, "I know you are honey." But I was adamant..."No, mommy. You do not understand, I am alive." And then I asked where the man went that was just at the foot of my bed...I inquired if he was a doctor or not? My mother just looked at me and smiled and said, "Honey, I have been the only person in this room for the last 4 hours." I might note that she said that before I opened my eyes and said these things that I thanked Jesus. In between the two separate incidences, I had a horrible nightmarish reality. The things that had been on my mind BEFORE the surgery, is what I dreamt about(if you will) whilst in a coma. Example. I've never shared this part because it had a huge impact on my life in a way I do not like to admit. I had gotten a DUI that summer. End of July. The surgery was in September and I was suppose to either go to jail for a weekend or do an in-house treatment for 72 hours locked down. In my coma, I dreamed that I went. Sick and all. My mom and brother who were there by my side as much as possible, wheeled me to court in my bed. So, I still had ME intact..in there somewhere.

As far as my health goes, well the infection messed everything up. I have permanent damage to my internal organs and am permanently disabled. However, I must say this about my brain. I feel that I am able to concentrate better than I ever have in my life. My senses are heightened. I learned that the heart and mind think independently of each other. Don't ask how...I just know it. Little interesting tid bit that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. I've had 13 surgeries over the last 15 years. One of which was a hysterectomy with a left oophorectomy(ovary removal). I grew that ovary back and subsequently had it removed twice.

I have bowel blockages that I must deal with on a daily basis. Surgery is really not an option anymore seeings how the last two I died on the table. They threaten feeding tubes, bypasses and even a colostomy bag. I frequent the hospitals more than I would like. In fact, only been about 3-4 weeks since my last vacation there. All of my health problems started with a really weird tumor that they were never able to identify...cataloged it as a "non true fibroid". I grew adhesions from that surgery that grew through the abdominal wall to my spine. That is amazing if you know anything about the human body. And they have never stopped growing. My insides are covered in them and can be seen in tests which is also amazing if you know anything about adhesions. My liver ruptured, lungs filled with fluid. My lungs walled off the fluid and I carry it with me today. Giving me less air capacity. My liver completely regenerated itself by taking milk thistle. My brain took a minute to reboot, but when it did, it came back stronger than ever. Same with my heart. No damage. Well, at least according to this darn heart monitor I gots on right now. (keeps me from sleeping ugh!) I run tachy because of the pain and inability to digest anything without some kind of help.

IDK...hope I didn't confuse you and that I answered your questions.

It seems that the overall gist of this conversation is to propel the myth that something of us persists past death. Besides the anecdotal accounts of living beings and those who are not deceased, there is of course is no evidence for any sort of persistence of some essence or soul, yet the myth seems to remain in the pop-culture of these pseudo-religious doctrines. It is quite interesting.

reply to post by Aphorism


Whilst I understand your reply, I however don't feel this isn't "pop-culture", actually not at all.

yet the myth seems to remain in the pop-culture of these pseudo-religious doctrines. It is quite interesting.

It's interesting that your claiming the above without tracing back to the begining. And I'll start with the Sumerians and you can trace the "pop-culture" through the Ancient times.

This is nothing new, however in our Pop-Culture today it seems more so only in "American" culture that we claim to know "reality" and "factuality" when in essence this has been documented since the dawn of human conciousness that is our Ancient past.

Call me crazy~

reply to post by cloudwatcher


Thank you for sharing your story. It sounds like quite an ordeal you've been through and still are working with. I commend you for your strength.

I find it enlightening that you did experience something while you were unconscious, and have been able to recall it with detail. From what Ive read it sounds like our perception continues to carry on even after our physical selves are dead or barely functioning. In some cases it seems as if these perceptions are much more vivid and impactful than they were with the limited physical senses.

We are going to confirm that a non-physical form of ourselves continues on. There seems to be way too many accounts of this happening to ignore. Thankfully there's also been some real research into this phenomenon.

Would you say that you are no longer afraid of dying after your experience?

reply to post by Aphorism


Not sure it's a myth any more. You should pick up a book and read the studies that have been conducted, before cementing your opinion on it. Although it's completely understandable why folks would have a problem with this.

Here, start with this guy.

reply to post by sulaw

It's interesting that your claiming the above without tracing back to the begining. And I'll start with the Sumerians and you can trace the "pop-culture" through the Ancient times.

This is nothing new, however in our Pop-Culture today it seems more so only in "American" culture that we claim to know "reality" and "factuality" when in essence this has been documented since the dawn of human conciousness that is our Ancient past.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. By "pop-culture" I mean popular culture, the culture of the masses, the status quo, the prevailing beliefs.

reply to post by Aphorism


Hey you said it first I thought you meant like "Miley Cyrus" or something.... My bad! LOL!

reply to post by Aphorism

It seems that the overall gist of this conversation is to propel the myth that something of us persists past death. Besides the anecdotal accounts of living beings and those who are not deceased, there is of course is no evidence for any sort of persistence of some essence or soul, yet the myth seems to remain in the pop-culture of these pseudo-religious doctrines. It is quite interesting.

The overall gist of the conversation is that there are replicable, viable, scientific experiments and data results that PROVE that something of us persists past death.

What do you have to gain by denying that? Why are you so staunchly negative about it - did you even LOOK at the materials and sources posted?

I'd say: no, you haven't. You've just decided that James Randi and the Materialists are right, and no amount of investigation and experimentation will ever override that.

You know what? I feel sorry for you.
Even after your initial responses, and the actual scientific evidence has been presented, you are still denying the possibility, even beyond what most modern PHYSICISTS acknowledge.

And it is NOT "pseudo-religious" - I couldn't care less about 'religious doctrine'....
but when SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE is found, using modern techniques and statistics that defy "chance" - it opens up a whole new window of study.

WHY do you want to keep saying it's MYTH? What have you to gain by that???

Pathetic.

reply to post by cloudwatcher

Thank you so much for sharing your story.

That's a brave thing to do. I wish you well.

reply to post by wildtimes

The overall gist of the conversation is that there are replicable, viable, scientific experiments and data results that PROVE that something of us persists past death.

That's quite the far reaching conclusion. There is no proof. Over 150, 000 people die each day, yet out of all these cases, not a single anything has been found to remain. Would you consider that evidence? Surely with so much "proof" you can find something of note that is left behind.

What do you have to gain by denying that? Why are you so staunchly negative about it - did you even LOOK at the materials and sources posted?

I'd say: no, you haven't. You've just decided that James Randi and the Materialists are right, and no amount of investigation and experimentation will ever override that.

You know what? I feel sorry for you.
Even after your initial responses, and the actual scientific evidence has been presented, you are still denying the possibility, even beyond what most modern PHYSICISTS acknowledge.

And it is NOT "pseudo-religious" - I couldn't care less about 'religious doctrine'....
but when SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE is found, using modern techniques and statistics that defy "chance" - it opens up a whole new window of study.

I haven't denied any possibility. I've denied your rhetoric.

Feel sorry for me all you want, but your condescension amounts to no more than someone galloping about on their high-horse thinking they have all the answers. You aren't above anyone because you've read a book that appeals to your sentiments and fancy. Call me a materialist. Call me anything you want. It doesn't change anything. But you've hypocritically adopted a purely dogmatic view, at the very same time you ridicule others for their supposed close-mindedness. Double-standards.

reply to post by Aphorism

That's quite the far reaching conclusion. There is no proof.

No, it is not a far reaching conclusion. It is the conclusion of the hundreds of experiments that have been done under rigorous standards that are almost beyond what 'typical experiments' would be.

Due to the style of denial that you sport, these teams have had to go to extreme lengths to avoid any chance of fraud or 'accident.'

But, you'll never know that. Your mind is too firmly shut to even consider it.

Hypocrite? I'm a hypocrite??

You said earlier in this very thread that you would get the books and read them before forming an opinion, so that you could have a knowledgeable debate (without using big words) about it.

ETA: Ohhh!!! YOU WERE BEING SARCASTIC!!

Now you just seem desperate.

So, let me ask you again:
Why? What is it to you that this is becoming 'fact'?

reply to post by Aphorism

That's quite the far reaching conclusion. There is no proof. Over 150, 000 people die each day, yet out of all these cases, not a single anything has been found to remain. Would you consider that evidence? Surely with so much "proof" you can find something of note that is left behind.

Why would anything remain after this physical body ceases to function? Death, Parallel Dimensions, some of the greatest ponderies in life are starting to come under test by the scientists of the world. I am wondering what type of "proof" your looking for? The wormhole to the other side? Possibly where the transference of energy disapates to?

I digress, as these questions will all start to be answered, and if not well, no harm no foul

Feel sorry for me all you want, but your condescension amounts to no more than someone galloping about on their high-horse thinking they have all the answers. You aren't above anyone because you've read a book that appeals to your sentiments and fancy. Call me a materialist. Call me anything you want. It doesn't change anything. But you've hypocritically adopted a purely dogmatic view, at the very same time you ridicule others for their supposed close-mindedness. Double-standards.

I guess that old saying of perception is everythng comes into play here. I've read the responses and posts and well frankly it goes both way. Possibly responses on all ends wouldn't read the way they are if taken with a open mind and possibly utilizing someone else's perception while staying neutral and challenging anything.

I mean I misinterpereted your "Pop-Culture" reference when you meant popular culture. I just laughed it off. It seems however Death and after life has been in Popular Culture since the dawn of time. Whatever... I'm just a peon anyway~

reply to post by wildtimes

But, you'll never know that. Your mind is too firmly shut to even consider it.

And you will not even look at the evidence to the opposite of your claims. I'm taking a page out of your play-book. You should be proud.

reply to post by sulaw

Why would anything remain after this physical body ceases to function? Death, Parallel Dimensions, some of the greatest ponderies in life are starting to come under test by the scientists of the world. I am wondering what type of "proof" your looking for? The wormhole to the other side? Possibly where the transference of energy disapates to?

I agree. We don't even know what proof we need. Parallel dimensions, multiple-universes, non-local consciousnesses, are all fictional accounts of real-world phenomena. We cannot even find what it is they are attempting to explain away with math and words.

reply to post by Aphorism


Are you being intentionally obtuse?

The discussion on this thread, has to do with the material in the OP. Which are books that attempt to prove the case for life continuing in a form, after death, possibly leading to what is being discussed here.
And did you read the book? Or books?
Because the author actually does give you lots to read in favor of the opposite of what he is explaining, and how they prove their case. As he shows how he proves his.

I just find it fascinating that you choose to battle over statements made in reply of this thread, as opposed to the SOURCE of the information being discussed.

It almost seems as if you are choosing to attack personal beliefs, instead of the material.
I hope that is not the case.

We do leave a note behind it is our remains. It is the way that our loved ones know we have ceased to exist on this earth. Could you imagine if you took your body with you when you die there would be no closure for anyone just as people that do disappear and the grief the family goes through not knowing whether they are alive or dead.

As for belief in the afterlife, yes I firmly believe there is somewhere else after this. The only way you truly experience this is to be with a person who is dying and in the final days or hours before death. What happens is enlightening. My mom was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in September and gone by mid-February of the next year. Near the end, she was talking to a space above us near the ceiling on another level. There were many things that happened but I am not going into great detail, lets just say once you have experienced this, you will never forget, nor be a skeptic.

Another thing I have wondered about and thinking about loved ones and their experiences with life threatening illness or accidents is the Exit Points we choose before beginning our lives here. When I was in my teens I had an operation and remember leaving my body and floating over but did not leave the operating room but watched them trying to revive me. I had an allergic reaction to one of the anesthetics used at the time. I came back but remember it like it was yesterday. That was exit 1. I have gone many years since that one, my next and probably final exit point is Diabetes Type 1. Since I was diagnosed with this at 37 and have had some really low lows that could have easily put me in a coma. This is Exit 2. In 2007 I had 2 Exits 3 and 4, the first being some kind of an allergic reaction with hives and very low BP and an appendix attack and nearly died, so now I think number 5 is on my doorstep, not sure how long before this one happens. Not for a while I hope.

If anyone thinks back are there exit points that you have had and chose not to take? Although this is sort of off topic I think it is all related and if you believe in an afterlife, we all planned this life with things to accomplish and exits we choose to leave it once this is done...

chiefsmom

It almost seems as if you are choosing to attack personal beliefs, instead of the material.
I hope that is not the case.

That does seem to be his pattern. He goes out of his way to avoid evidence presented in a thread and instead just tries to match wits and troll around subverting whatever he can. I suspect that does it until people get wise to him, and then he creates a new account and does it all over again.

/shrug