Science and the Afterlife Experience

reply to post by Serdgiam

I have tried to write a reply to your post and gave up.
However, I would have said this.....

What you are actually is beyond words, but it would be not untrue to say you are nothing whatsoever other than pure, infinite, disembodied consciousness/intelligence; a field of miraculous infinite light; God dreaming itself; an infinite point of pure potential; or the infinite implications of nothing whatsoever.

The immediate presentation of this unspeakable actuality is the field of your experience, which is an instantaineously appearing virtual field of Radiant Presence as apparent qualities. This is the actuality of which every/ and any/ thing that you think exists consists. This is inclusive and complete; nothing whatever other than this field exists. In short, the entirety of Reality is the "bubble" of YOUR experience, the field of Radiant Presence, which alone exists.

This is the totality of Reality. This is not theoretical, but is actually, immediately real; always the case right here right now.

in other words but not as clear as Peter Brown.
theopendoorway.org...

reply to post by Itisnowagain


That explains a perspective on the "what" of "what is happening." But what about the "how?" I know, I keep harping on about this.

Do you understand the distinction? Because the results of each of these lines of questioning lead to different consequences.

Just exploring the "what" can be considered more of a philosophical endeavor. It wont really lead to any improvements in quality of life for others, and frequently, the same rings true for ourselves.

Exploring the "how" allows us to not only understand the "what," but it also allows us to create new things that can be shared globally regardless of personal perspective. Like a computer, it doesnt matter if you think it is an illusion, a hologram, material compressed to different densities over time, or ANY of that. If it works, it works. It doesnt matter if we understand the totality of the "what," but as long as we have an understanding of the "how," we can actually put it into application.

An individual can know "what" a painting is, but that doesnt mean they know "how" to create the painting they are looking at. Science deals more with "how," so regardless of "what" you believe is happening (or not happening), "how" do you think it happens?

reply to post by Serdgiam


Are you asking 'how is this happening?'?
The mind is a machine that asks impossible questions and it thinks it knows the answer or at least can find the answer. The answer asks a question and the answer is lost - thrown out of paradise it seeks fulfilment (better quality of life).
The mind cannot see the mystery - it is figuring everything out.

Itisnowagain
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

Are you asking 'how is this happening?'?

Yes, that is precisely what science asks.

The mind is a machine that asks impossible questions and it thinks it knows the answer or at least can find the answer. The answer asks a question and the answer is lost - thrown out of paradise it seeks fulfilment (better quality of life).
The mind cannot see the mystery - it is figuring everything out.

Seeking a better quality of life is no more indicative of current fulfillment than not seeking a better quality of life. As individual parts of all that is, we have room for growth as long as we are willing to pick up the brush and paint. There is not necessarily a "need" to do so, it is a "want" to grow. In this, it is not perceived that there is a need for growth to attain something we do not have, but a desire to grow what we already are. When these things are perceived as a "need", one is endlessly driven to grasp something they perceive they do not have. But the act itself is not solely tied to "this." It can be tied to this, that, both, and neither simultaneously.

It might be that the answers we get from science lead to more questions. And it might be that the ultimate questions are impossible. However, the actual results from these endeavors has created extraordinary beauty and extraordinary destruction, all depending on our choices.

By figuring out facets of the "how," we are able to directly change the world around us (regardless of "what" the world around us is). We wouldnt even be talking to each other right now if individuals had not attempted to answer questions that were perceived as "impossible" at the time. We do not get the "full answer" because we arent omniscient. But to some, that just means there is more room to grow.

If you were going to invent something, itisnowagain, what would it be? Why are you here, painting your words?

reply to post by Serdgiam

No one will ever find out 'how' this is happening - 'how' existence is appearing to exist is the great mystery.
Until the mystery is found to be a mystery all apparent aspects of life will be a puzzle and a competition.

It is all unfolding by itself - it is beautiful. The show is showing just for you - you just get to see what is appearing, it is arising now - no one is doing the arising and no one has control of the unfolding - it is truly wonderful.
The patterns, colours and shapes that are seen when one looks deep into the appearance appear very beautiful.

There seams to be two aspects to this existence - that which is seen and that which is seeing. In deep sleep there is nothing (zero) appearing and when there is consciousness (wakefulness) there is the 1.
Science studies the appearance - quantum science is getting to the heart, looking real deep into the appearance. Existence is all about arising and subsiding, apparent creation and destruction - whether one looks at the surface and says man is copying the patterns of nature or whether one sees it as nature just doing it's work through what appears to be separate individuals choosing this way makes no difference. Technologies could be said to do good but they also do bad - so in fact neutralize each other. There is always a perfect balance going on. That which appears has to constantly change but that which sees and knows the arising and subsiding just witnesses it all.

Thanks so much for the thread. I have a lot of reading to do. The possibility of re-incarnation scares me. Re-incarnation back into human form. Do you think it possible for a human to learn all the lessons in one life?

MOMof3
Thanks so much for the thread. I have a lot of reading to do. The possibility of re-incarnation scares me. Re-incarnation back into human form. Do you think it possible for a human to learn all the lessons in one life?

The Buddha wanted to stop reincarnation.
It is the person which suffers and Buddha realized that he was not a person.
The one thing you have to do in life is die to the person you think you are. That is if you do not want to reincarnate.

The belief is that you are inside a body - that you are just a person, a thing that will come and go.

reply to post by MOMof3

The possibility of re-incarnation scares me. Re-incarnation back into human form. Do you think it possible for a human to learn all the lessons in one life?

First, I'm glad you're enjoying the thread!

Second: I don't know if it's possible. I know I won't have time to learn everything I'd LIKE to learn -- and I also know that I've been through the wringer more times than I care to recall - and am even now still learning. I don't think learning ever stops.

Funny you say it scares you. It doesn't scare me; or, rather, it didn't - until I gave it more thought (LOTS more thought) - and when I realize that it means more suffering, and might not have what I initially thought of as rather more excitement and opportunities - it makes me kind of sad.

I try my level best to be a truly good person - and the question that haunts me is - if it's simply a random re-entry, my life might be a long nightmare next time - or it might be fantastic; that's one of the reasons I push for peace, and for the end of poverty, wide-spread war and conflict, hunger, slavery, etc. Then, none of us would have to 'worry' who might be our future family, or where...
but then, where would the 'lessons' come from?

I don't know. I really don't.

I have studied Buddhism and a few things always stuck with me, one was the statement the Dalai Lama made about religion,

He did not encourage a person who was born into one religion to switch over to another or Buddhism, stating the religion one is born into offered the lessons you needed to learn this lifetime.

That stopped me dead in my tracks.

And the traditional version of Buddhism is much different then our westernized versions.


Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them.
Dalai Lama

I actually found one,

www.artofdharma.com...

Buddhism teaches respect and tolerance for other religions and speaking ill of anyone for their philosophy or religion is a transgression of the Dharma. Not only does the Dalai Lama respect other faiths, he doesn’t seek converts. His Holiness states, “People from different traditions should keep their own, rather than change.”

To a man who asked to become a Buddhist, the Dalai Lama replied, “Please don’t. Stay in your own religion, and meditate.” Further , he has stated, “It is better to stick with the wisdom traditions of one’s own land than to run from them pursuing in exotica what was under your nose all the time.”

MOMof3
Thanks so much for the thread. I have a lot of reading to do. The possibility of re-incarnation scares me. Re-incarnation back into human form. Do you think it possible for a human to learn all the lessons in one life?

I will tell ya one thing all the lessons have worn me out, so I aint planning on returning.

I once read a book, very rare book, only a few copies made, it said we have a choice.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


You can skate through but is frowned apon..

But it is you talking here now I am sure when you go "home" things will be slightly different.

Book: Destiny of Souls - New Case Studies of Life Between Lives - by Michael Newton

In the spirit world we are not forced to reincarnate or participate in
group projects. If souls want solitude they can have it. If they don't
want to advance in their assignments, this too is honored. One subject
told me, "I have skated through many easy lives and I like it that way
because I haven't really wanted to work hard.

Within soul study groups there is a wondrous clarity of rational
thought. Self-delusion does not exist but I must say that the motivation
to work hard in every life is not uniform among all souls. I have had
clients tell me, "I'm going to skate for a while." This can mean slowing
down their rate of incarnations, picking easy incarnations, or both.
Although the soul's teachers and council may not be happy with this
decision, it is respected. Even within the spirit world, some students
choose not to give their best at all times. I believe they are a distinct
minority of earthbound souls.

Itisnowagain
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

No one will ever find out 'how' this is happening - 'how' existence is appearing to exist is the great mystery.
Until the mystery is found to be a mystery all apparent aspects of life will be a puzzle and a competition.

It already is "found to be a mystery" and if we werent able to figure facets of the "how," how did the computer you are using come into being. Do we have omniscient knowledge? Nope!

Technologies could be said to do good but they also do bad - so in fact neutralize each other.

Technology, like everything else in our experience, is a tool that we decide to use somewhere along the spectrum of duality. Technology is widely known as a double edged sword, but it comes down to our choices in how these things are actually used.

Listen, we could go back and forth on this. You want to show me how I am wrong, and I want a discussion including both perspectives. Your choice in how you talk on these boards is up to you, but as for this conversation, its probably best to just move on.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Indeed. Its quite a nice concept, imo.

I think the best book ever written on any of these subjects is our own experience. It has quite a lot of depth, and it almost seems like its written specifically for us.

reply to post by wildtimes


Years ago, it was a revelation to me that even if "things" only exist in the strictest materialist sense.. the teaching of "love one another" was how I choose to live my life.

If everything was just *poof* done, at the end, that is how I would like to choose to live.

If the experience continues on in some way, I still choose the same life style.

It was ironic to me, because up until that point, I was a rather militant atheist with an advaita-vedanta bent. Itisnowagain actually reminds me of those years, but he is much more kind than I was.

I figured that regardless of what happens after we die, I wanted to live in a way that I could look back on and give a nod of approval right before that moment of death.

reply to post by Serdgiam

I figured that regardless of what happens after we die, I wanted to live in a way that I could look back on and give a nod of approval right before that moment of death.

I, too, want to live in that way.

And also look back and think, "Well, it certainly wasn't boring!"

reply to post by wildtimes


Exactly!

It was in my teenage years when all that happened, right after a couple of years of loved ones dying left and right (one every couple months, and this continued on for about four more years).

It was like a weight lifted off of my shoulders! It is so incredibly simple, but that doesnt mean its easy.

Later on, I asked myself if I was really doing my best. Was I really using my abilities for destruction or growth? Given my current path, it was obvious (I was getting into weapons design, chemical engineering, etc.). So, I switched it all around to create technologies that do the opposite of control and create dependency. When I looked back, I thought I would be happier having invented things that enabled people to be self-sufficient and independent.

Even if its all an illusion, and nothing happens past my death... That nod of approval will put a smile on my face. I really dont think it all ends at death, but even if it does, I am perfectly content with it.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Die to the person you think you are? That is exactly how I have felt the last year (63). Everything I was taught and believed in has been lie. I don't know who I am, but I don't like it here. So I hope that qualifies.

Serdgiam

Itisnowagain
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

No one will ever find out 'how' this is happening - 'how' existence is appearing to exist is the great mystery.
Until the mystery is found to be a mystery all apparent aspects of life will be a puzzle and a competition.

It already is "found to be a mystery" and if we werent able to figure facets of the "how," how did the computer you are using come into being. Do we have omniscient knowledge? Nope!

Are you not the knower of what is actually appearing as this present experience?
How did this present moment come into being?
The seer and seen are one.

Technology, like everything else in our experience, is a tool that we decide to use somewhere along the spectrum of duality. Technology is widely known as a double edged sword, but it comes down to our choices in how these things are actually used.

It is not a tool that 'we' decide to use (that is dual thinking) - it is just what happens - it is what unfolds but you think it is man doing it as something separate to the whole. The whole is doing it.

Listen, we could go back and forth on this. You want to show me how I am wrong, and I want a discussion including both perspectives. Your choice in how you talk on these boards is up to you, but as for this conversation, its probably best to just move on.

It is not 'my' choice 'how' I talk. Writing happens - reading happens.

MOMof3
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Die to the person you think you are? That is exactly how I have felt the last year (63). Everything I was taught and believed in has been lie. I don't know who I am, but I don't like it here. So I hope that qualifies.

Not knowing who you are is a good place to be. People (the individual - that which is appears to be divided) always think they are something or someone and this is what makes life uncomfortable. They really deep down feel like a no one and nothing but this is denied - by the feeling that I must 'become' someone or something (better).
The drive to 'become' (more or better) is what makes 'here' not a nice place to be - in fact 'being' is overlooked by the need to 'become'.

The 'hereness' of you is eternal - it can be a hellish experience or a heavenly one.
When 'becoming' is seen to be a trick (a deception - just a whisper in the ear) and 'being' is found to be the only truth you will feel much lighter.