Jesus complex/Who do I pray to!?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

. . . Jesus and God are synonymous ideas. YHWH is Christ's title. Jesus is God.

Whenever "God" would show up in the Old Testament stories, It was never the actual God, but rather someone who presented themselves as God's representative.
So the "I am" would mean the "whoever showed up as God".
In the New Testament, that "someone" was Jesus, rather than an angel or something.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Okay lets say that's true about the OT.

My verse was an NT reference.

What is your thoughts on that verse in respect to the idea Jesus is God.

Seems to me there is room for theological debate.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Seems to me there is room for theological debate.

Some people want to push "monotheism", which was not even a word before 1500.

Jesus is The Name of God, meaning he represents God's character.
One reason why he can do that is that he was "in the form of God" before he was born as the baby Jesus, according to Paul in Philippians.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I don't know why you keep dodging my question and that passage but okay. No biggie. I am over it

To add to what you said about the word 'monotheism'. The word 'homosexuality', and even the psychological concept of orientation, didn't appear until recently in history, yet it doesn't stop people from publishing new Biblical translations that include the word in verses. Very interesting how modern translations adapt and change yet still claim to be authentic to original texts. As one example.

Thank you all very much for the responses and for providing me with some good reading material and ideas to contemplate.

I have to go to work so I can't contribute anymore right now, but hopefully by tonight I'll have thought of something worth posting.

I need to do some studying first too.

reply to post by GoShredAK


When you prayed directly to Jesus, you did so with sincerity. God accepts our sincerity and winks at our ignorance. We are not held accountable for something we truly, in our heart of hearts, do not understand. We are judged according to the light which we have been given. That is why your prayers were still answered.

We are to pray to God the Father in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ.

John 16:23-24(AKJV)
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

I don't know why you keep dodging my question and that passage but okay. No biggie. I am over it

Because I don't see your question as relevant to the points that I was making.
It looks like you are interpreting what I said as implying that Jesus and God are the same person.
I don't think that.
Jesus said that his Father was someone the Jews did not know, but he did, because he was from above.

To add to what you said about the word 'monotheism'. The word 'homosexuality', and even the psychological concept of orientation, didn't appear until recently in history, yet it doesn't stop people from publishing new Biblical translations that include the word in verses. Very interesting how modern translations adapt and change yet still claim to be authentic to original texts. As one example.

The word monotheism is not in a Bible translation as far as I know.
Another example of a recently coined word is genocide, which was invented and defined in the 1930's.
It was made by combining a Greek word with a Latin word.
That word is not in the Bible but it describes what the Hebrews were attempting against the rightful inhabitants of the Land of Canaan.
They (the Hebrews, at least according to their own stories) believed in a philosophy that 'might makes right', and that their god was the Lord of Armies.

reply to post by GoShredAK


You don't pray to jesus, he himself said he wanted no worship he only wanted to be followed as a student to a teacher.

You pray to XYXX!

The religious premise that what is called "the lords prayer" IS a prayer or even a guide on HOW to pray is the cause for much confusion about prayer.One thing is for sure whatever the Jews "thought" was prayer was not prayer.Yahoshua clearly stated that many times that their "ritual" were incorrect and void(meaningless).Prayer is simply communing with the creator God.There is no ritual there is no "method" it is a state of being.

In what is called the Lords prayer (Yahoshua never said it was)...Yahoshua "proclaimed" what prayer "was".He wasn't saying ..."say these words" ...like billions continue to do without knowing what they mean...and something will "happen".If "the lords prayer" is a prayer it makes no sense.Yahoshua said those that "pray" with many words(as if it were a laundry list of requests and wants) thinking that is communicating are completely mistaken.

He was proclaiming what it "was" just as he did everything not teaching.Modern translations and traditional religious teachings of the doctrines of men have twisted it into him teaching how to pray which in the context of whats said makes zero sense.

He said "our" father (the creator God) whom is In the heavens(the heavens are the creators creation...i.e.,.. everything..including mankind!) holy (which means separate) is that name (name means nature).That Kingdom(the Kingdom/ realm of God) WILL come because the creators Will ,will be done in the earths(physical material) as it is in the heavens.

It's a proclamation not a method.That opening statement/proclamation alone is a mouthful.Yahoshua is making a proclamation on how things REALLY are.The creator God is the one in control.All your needs are and will be provided for.There is no need to "ask for them" as if they won't be provided unless you ask by the "right " method of your "many words" you believe is a "prayer.

My suggestion is if you "want" to pray "to" the creator God you will not be....it will be as futile as the pharisees prayer making void the LIVING word of the creator God by the "traditions " of men.In other words...The creator God is impossible to "pray to".That isn't how prayer functions.It is communing .It is a state of being that you "are" not something you "do".

Notice Yahoshua never "prays with" the disciples or anyone.He is ALWAYS communing with the father.He clearly stated he could do NOTHING unless he "heard" saw it from the father...communion...faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the " living" word of the creator God...communing.

reply to post by Rex282

Notice Yahoshua never "prays with" the disciples or anyone.He is ALWAYS communing with the father

"Yahoshua" is a little used variant spelling only referring to a particular person, Joshua, son of Nun, second in command to Moses (according to the story, whether such a historical person existed or not).
The Syrian language word that would have been common at the time of Christ would have been Yeshua, though the New Testament uses the Greek version and it is more likely that Jesus spoke Greek than any other language.

Jesus had all power and authority given to him.
He does pray with his disciples in John 11.

Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”

So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”

When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!”

reply to post by GoShredAK



Pray to your Father in Heaven, who was loving enough to take form in Jesus and walk with us for a while. He loves you beyond measure for He created you. He knew you before you were born and showers His blessings on you continuoulsy.

Don't let the phycobabble of ATS drive that knowledge from you. Jesus is real, so is His Father, the creator of us all, and they grace us with their Spirit daily. Science has a place in our world, but don't let them tell you they know everything, they don't. It's easy to want to put your faith in human knowledge, but it has it's limits. Trust in the Father that He has given you what you need to know, and one day all knowledge will be yours through Him.

ATS is good to watch what the evil forces in this world are doing to drive us from our Creator and Father. Many of the people here have chosen the gods they will serve, don't let them drive you from yours. There will be a day when the Father will make Himself known to all, but until that day, He will only come to those who call on Him. Everyone, call on Him, and open yourself up to Him. You will only find love and forgiveness, but if you deny Him, you find His judgement.

Do your best, OP. Remain true to the faith and don't let things discourage you. You will make it through this.

reply to post by Rex282


When i "pray" guess I shouldn't call it that, I'm aware that chanting phrases is pointless and way below what god expects of us.....I should call it "having a conversation with jesus in mind" (whatever your interpretation of him may be) not "prayer"

reply to post by MRSeeker


Thank you, I really appreciate it.

There's a lot of deception out there, still, I'll stand firm in my beliefs and well see where the ashes settle, and where my soul ends up.

GoShredAK
reply to post by Rex282

 

When i "pray" guess I shouldn't call it that, I'm aware that chanting phrases is pointless and way below what god expects of us.....I should call it "having a conversation with jesus in mind" (whatever your interpretation of him may be) not "prayer"

Praying as Yahoshua proclaimed is a state of communion with the creator God the Father and Son.There's no reason to make it more difficult than that.It is not "mystical".The creator God is causing all to happen as a "work" in you.Everything is 100% in control of the creator God ...you have nothing to worry about or fear.

reply to post by Rex282


Double post sorry
Please delete

reply to post by Rex282


Thank you for simplifying that for me

I can only articulate myself well, and can only comprehend new information when I'm in the right mood...so for me, simple is good

Thanks again to everyone taking time to contribute here....

reply to post by GoShredAK


In general, places such as ATS isn't that healthy for believers who aren't strong in the word of truth. Here's some relevant links for you to check out:

Conspiracies or Christ? www.youtube.com...
Christians: How to Respond to the New World Order Movements: www.youtube.com...

The Christian and Conspiracies (recommended reading): www.faithdefenders.com...

I started a thread on here a while ago and I think you should check it out (www.abovetopsecret.com...)

Until about a year ago, I always prayed to our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, with zero questioning, full comfort and confidence… After many enthralling ATS visits over the years, consequently, that simple comforting system has been shattered......Now my mind is flooded with thoughts such as, and definitely not limited to; Is God really an egotistical jealous madman?

What is the Gospel if you don't mind me asking? Also have you been growing in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ? Here's what Jesus and Peter says:

”And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment." (Mark 12:30)

“but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.” (2 Peter 3:18)

Believers are to study the word (2 Timothy 2:15) so that they can be ready always to give a defense (1 Peter 3:15). It is important that we know the truth and here’s my response to a thread on Jesus’ word in John 8:32: www.abovetopsecret.com...

“And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting…” (Ephesians 4:11-14)

“Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.” (Colossians 2:8)

If you have accepted Christ and know why He died then you have eternal life. Get to know both the Father and the Son:

“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:3)

Know them both intellectually (Truth) and experientially (Spirit) because many false christs are here and with false christs they’ll give a false knowledge/understanding of the true God. Jesus came to destroy the work of the devil (1 John 3:8) by giving us the true knowledge and understanding of the true God because the devil goal is to lead us away from Him.

“And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.” (1 John 5:20-21)

who was Jesus really?

Good question and a very important one. I have started a post on this offline but haven't got a chance to finish it. It is amazing how so many get it wrong on the identity of this one Person. If you don't mind me asking: Who is Jesus?

Then they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also." (John 8:19)

In other words, if a person doesn’t know Christ then he doesn’t know God fully.

a reply to: GoShredAK

Philippians 2:9-11 says...

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus Christ is the name above ALL other names on earth and in heaven. You can pray to Jesus, or you can pray to God... it really makes no difference because Jesus and God are synonymous. Jesus Christ IS God. Before Jesus incarnated as man and walked the Earth, He was eternally God, the second person of the Trinity. Study the difference Between the OT LORD (all capital letters), and the NT Lord (not all caps) In the OT, LORD (also called the tetragrammaton) is the name above all names. LORD is the English equivalent to YHWH, or what some people call Yahweh or Jehovah. LORD is not used in the NT one time, because Jesus Christ IS the LORD, and Jesus is the name above all names.

originally posted by: Rex282

GoShredAK
reply to post by Rex282

 

When i "pray" guess I shouldn't call it that, I'm aware that chanting phrases is pointless and way below what god expects of us.....I should call it "having a conversation with jesus in mind" (whatever your interpretation of him may be) not "prayer"

Praying as Yahoshua proclaimed is a state of communion with the creator God the Father and Son.There's no reason to make it more difficult than that.It is not "mystical".The creator God is causing all to happen as a "work" in you.Everything is 100% in control of the creator God ...you have nothing to worry about or fear.

What is the deal with calling Jesus Yahoshua? I find this funny considering that ancient Hebrew was a dead language for 1700 years (give or take), and on top of that ancient Hebrew was comprised of 22 letters, and none of them were vowels.... They were ALL consonants. So when people see YHWH and say "Yahweh" they are really only guessing that is the correct pronunciation, because there are no tape recordings of ancient Hebrew to prove it. Having said that, modern Hebrew is not at all equivalent to ancient Hebrew, because not only was it invented out of thin air in the 1800's, it has vowels, so calling Jesus Yahoshua is completely absurd. It is not His name, it never was His name.

a reply to: GoShredAK

But who do I pray to!!!?

99.9% of your life you have prayed to Jesus and are sure that you have some answered.


Joining ATS 3 years ago seems to have been the start of the crumbling of your faith.

If God is this then Is Jesus that are questions that steering you away from your faith.

God is all and devotion to the all is what Jesus preached that made him part of that all made him the child of that all and wanted to share the idea that we are all brothers and sisters, children of a much greater existence unknowable to us and faith is the only path through the darkness to reach the greater existence.

Don't loose your faith because what you read on a screen.

Get out and let the real world as we think we know it instead of the digital world to show you the path that is paved especially for you.

And the answer is obvious......Love

Yes,

One of finest examples of what Christianity should be in the face of war or battle is the movie the Mission, with Robert DeNiro, Jeremy Irons and Liam Neeson where at the end they show what faith in GOD is.

The same faith Jesus displayed when he walked into his own execution willingly.

Believe in love and that belief lives long after your body passes in those that experienced your faith in love and Christ or what ever you choose to believe in.