Hitler may have been one of the two witnesses in Revelations.

BO XIAN
reply to post by ahnggk

 

NOPE. NO WAY.

1. The Two Witnesses are essentially supernatural evangelists for the Lord Jesus The Messiah.

2. They can't come on the scene until the Tribulation period. I forget if the first or 2nd half.

3. Hitler was a satanist.

4. This idea is one of the silliest I've ever read about on ATS or anywhere else.

1. To John, the technology of WW2 could easily appear supernatural in his descriptions.

2. We are already in the Tribulation. The *REAL* Christians are under heavy persecution and mortal danger. If you don't see it, you are probably living in the burbs and playing it safe. No real Christian plays it safe, live in the burbs, and be a friend of the world (Matthew 10:39, John 12:25, Luke 9:23, James 4:4)

3. Have you read Mein Kampf lately? You are likely making a false accusation.

4. It's ironic that I could easily find Bible verses to support Hitler's "campaign of terror". By what I'm observing here, I seriously doubt the Christians will recognize their "Witnesses"

The Witnesses will lay siege upon the world and may chant the name of God, I bet Christians will shout "terrorists!!"

Arafat and Ariel Sharon.

ahnggk

1. To John, the technology of WW2 could easily appear supernatural in his descriptions.

That seems to express the opinion that God was inadequate in depicting to John, showing John what HE showed him and/or John was inadequate in describing it. I don't agree with either notion.

imho, anyone failing to understand the absolutely starkly super dramatic GOD DOINGS SUPERNATURALLY in Revelation . . . just doesn't "get it."

God is NOT ABOUT to leave the enemy the turf of the most dramatic demonstrations of supernatural power. No way.

2. We are already in the Tribulation.

Not in my book. Doesn't happen until the Anti-Christ steps overtly onto the world stage AS THE WORLD LEADER. Then the clock starts ticking on the 3.5-7 years, imho.

The *REAL* Christians are under heavy persecution and mortal danger. If you don't see it, you are probably living in the burbs and playing it safe. No real Christian plays it safe, live in the burbs, and be a friend of the world (Matthew 10:39, John 12:25, Luke 9:23, James 4:4)

I think you are jumping to some very wild-haired conclusions and assumptions. I've lived in China and SE Asia for 15 years. I'm familiar with hazards to authentic Christians probably more than you are.

When more than one poor Chinese Christian families offers to hide you during the Tienanmen era democracy demonstrations if they turn into overt civil war . . . that's rather humbling.

3. Have you read Mein Kampf lately? You are likely making a false accusation.

Been a while since I've looked at it. Not planning to. Enough of that evil pile of stink.

4. It's ironic that I could easily find Bible verses to support Hitler's "campaign of terror". By what I'm observing here, I seriously doubt the Christians will recognize their "Witnesses"

People have been finding Bible verses to "support" all manner of evil from before the Pharisees 2,000 years ago. Jim Jones comes to mind. IIRC, Charles Manson also spouted Bible verses.

And now this thread.

I'm underwhelmed. Very underwhelmed.

I don't know where you have dug up your notions but I think you might be better off to quickly bury them again and have someone with a real intense authentic connection to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob pray over the burial site.

Are you the ATS reincarnation of Olivet? Your notions are about as off the wall obtuse and contrary to facts and reality as his were.

For some, such extreme absurdities might be entertaining. For me, they are . . . at best soberingly disturbing . . . . cause for prayer.

The Witnesses will lay siege upon the world and may chant the name of God, I bet Christians will shout "terrorists!!"

The Bible is rather brief in its description of what the 2 Witnesses will do and say etc. Extrapolating from those brief verses in almost any way is fool hardy, imho. Certainly they will be unlike anyone who has gone before them.

It's been curious to funny to pathetic over the years. I've had enough folks tell me directly or tell folks I knew or publish that THEY WERE one of the 2 Witnesses, that gathered together, the group could comprise a large congregation.

Consequently, I don't get real excited over irrational 2 Witnesses blather.

They WILL step onto the global stage WHEN God says it's time. Not before.

WHEN they do, there will be no doubt who they are. NO ONE ELSE will come close to them in any respects or demonstrations. That's partly why the world will be so hostile toward them. They will have no other peers in their distributing powerful Godly supernatural curses and consequences on the evil doers and the evil regions of the world.

And, WHEN they are killed IN THE STREETS OF JERUSALEM . . . AND THEIR BODIES LIE TOGETHER in the streets of Jerusalem WHILE the WHOLE WORLD looks on . . . FOR 3 DAYS . . . there will be no doubt as to the identity of the 2 bodies. And, when the 2 bodies are resurrected AFTER 3 DAYS, the whole world will be in shocked dismay and mourning for the fate of those who opposed the 2 Witnesses.

No way could Hitler approach filling the role of even the dirt on the shoes of one of the 2 Witnesses of the Biblical narrative.

If this notion is a fantasy of yours in some misguided experiment or game to tweak and obnoxiously stir up ATS readers . . . I suggest you come up with more fruitful and rational recreational gaming.

AngryCymraeg

ahnggk

SLAYER69The Romans?

I thought Mussolini was Germany's Allie?

The Jews are directly responsible for the death of Jesus.

It's in the Bible.

No. It's very, very simple. The Romans killed Jesus. If he even existed that is. Crucifixion was a Roman punishment.

And interestingly, crucifixion were only carried out on slaves or non-Romans. Certain exceptions were made that carried the crucifixion sentence for those engaged in high treason for a regular citizen or the lowest class of Roman citizenship.

Xeven
Arafat and Ariel Sharon.

or Barrack Obama and Kim Jong Un

peace

reply to post by ketsuko


Revelations is an inner process. The 7 Churches are the Chakra's. Nothing is outer. Outer is Beast, ie body suit or materialism. Ie. if you take literally the fairy tales and turn to worship or idolalize outer things like Church and body suits, instead of Spirit, inner, ie God is Spirit and worship in Spirit, in meditation, you do seek.....but literally see the stories as God smites, God murders armies, God gives negative prophecies to prophets, then you are switching loyalty, from God/Goodness/Spirit, to Saturn.

Which is why the Church has a really reptilian looking Christ relief behind the pope at the Vatican.

Now, people are actually off the hook, because if people believe in God/Goodness and use discernment to realize anything that is not loving and kind and giving/forgiving and healing in the bible is manmade or distortion, they're still being good.

The Two Witnesses are essentially supernatural evangelists for the Lord Jesus The Messiah.

What exactly is a "supernatural evangelist"...?
And how does that equate to God's Two Witnesses

(Revelation 11)
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Two Witnesses

"11 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly."

I post Revelation of God's Two Witnesses so those involved can read what it has to say
and find understanding in this misunderstood quest!

The understanding comes from researching 'each' sentence..

These ARE God's Two Witnesses, therefore they are in God's TIME frame.
And God's time frame is different than humans - according to the bible
characters such as 2 Peter 3:8 & Psalms 90:4; which states that one year
in the life of humans is but a one thousand years in the life of God therefore
implying the '1260' days are actually 12 thousand 6 hundred YEARS making the
'death' of the 2 Witnesses 3 and half days as being 3,500 years.

Equate "God's Two Witnesses" to God's timeline and you will find the riddle unravel!

One last comment -

NO WHERE does it say God's Two Witnesses are human!!!
(realize what your reading)

Yes - eventually I will create a thread revealing just whom these 2 witnesses are..

Be well all

reply to post by HumAnnunaki


I think you'd have done far better to have stopped with the Scripture.

In that case, 3.5 days is what God, the Lord Jesus, The Christ said and what He meant.

Calling fire down out of Heaven; withholding or granting rain; water into blood at their decision . . . is beyond natural into supernatural.

Two individual human bodies lying in the streets of Jerusalem. That's clear enough. No burial for them in graves. After 3.5 DAYS, they are resurrected and taken up to Heaven.

For centuries that's essentially been the understanding of those verses by a vast array of Bible students and scholars.

Nonsensical twisting and mangling of the verses yields nothing constructively fruitful.


= = =

Evidently Olivet has returned or has a twin or two? Sigh.

BO XIAN

I think you'd have done far better to have stopped with the Scripture.

For centuries that's essentially been the understanding of those verses by a vast array of Bible students and scholars.

Nonsensical twisting and mangling of the verses yields nothing constructively fruitful.

Hi Box -

Do we know each other..?
You have the forum 'name' of an individual I have known
from a different website where I went by the name of "Aquarian Trumpet".

I highlighted your last statement because you are correct in your assumption
of scholars not understanding what it is that they are reading, a common
problem when it comes to the bible.

So I ask you this (as you have much religion in your site title)
What makes YOUR assumption of whom God's Two Witnesses
any better than the the OP's.. or mine for that matter -
and why if you are a man of God, do you choose to insult your fellow man
over something such as knowledge..?

Be well..
COMMANDMENT NUMBER ONE

BO XIAN
That seems to express the opinion that God was inadequate in depicting to John, showing John what HE showed him and/or John was inadequate in describing it. I don't agree with either notion.

St John worshiped an angel by mistake and the angel quickly rebuked him.

Thus, St John is no exception to the "wow factor". He is still primitive compared to the angels and even to 20th century technology. Advanced technology always appear supernatural to the primitive, it always does.

You really can't trust someone from over a thousand years ago to accurately recreate in their vocabulary things that belong to 20th century and beyond

BO XIAN
Calling fire down out of Heaven; withholding or granting rain; water into blood at their decision . . . is beyond natural into supernatural.

While yes, that is also true, I won't disagree..

...But it can now be done with modern technology.

Wasn't the Shuttle Columbia disaster appeared exactly like fire called down from Heaven? Shuttles doesn't just go down from orbit, unless they are commanded by control center to do so (if everything is cleared safe for reentry and landing). They are literally called down and appear like fire falling from heaven to be literally seen by many many people on the ground...

Water turned into blood in the beach at Normandy. Cloud seeding can both cause rain or prevent rain (by causing it to rain early in other parts)

I'm not saying control center in NASA is the antichrist. But rather it belongs to the system that is under the dominion of the antichrist. Same system that runs the government, education, economy, etc.

reply to post by HumAnnunaki



Nope. Not the other bloke.

I have observed . . . as in observed . . . as in tangible observations of 'reality,' whatever that is.

I have observed that taking the Bible literally where at all possible has proven out to be more congruent with tangible reality as well as history far far far FAR more than otherwise.

I'll continue to do that.

God tends to say what He means and mean what He says.

reply to post by ahnggk



NOPE. Doesn't cut it for me.

That's akin to claiming the children of Jacob crossed over via the REED Sea.

That's absurd. That would have Pharaoh and his whole army and horses drowning in a few inches of water. That's about as big a miracle as crossing the Red sea on DRY LAND.

Nope. A heavily weighted literalist interpretation of Scripture has served me well over the whole of my life. Not changing now.

Fanciful imaginations and nonsense from hell to detract from the majesty and miraculousness evident in the Word of God do not begin to work for me at all.

BO XIAN
God tends to say what He means and mean what He says.

H/E does at that..

You will please 'observe' Revelation 11:4
"4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands
standing before the God of the earth.."

And of course, no absolute mention of the 2 witnesses being human.

So we don't know each other from a previous endeavor -
No worries, we shall remedy that

Be well BO XIAN.

Unity_99
reply to post by ketsuko

 

Revelations is an inner process. The 7 Churches are the Chakra's. Nothing is outer. Outer is Beast, ie body suit or materialism. Ie. if you take literally the fairy tales and turn to worship or idolalize outer things like Church and body suits, instead of Spirit, inner, ie God is Spirit and worship in Spirit, in meditation, you do seek.....but literally see the stories as God smites, God murders armies, God gives negative prophecies to prophets, then you are switching loyalty, from God/Goodness/Spirit, to Saturn.

Which is why the Church has a really reptilian looking Christ relief behind the pope at the Vatican.

Now, people are actually off the hook, because if people believe in God/Goodness and use discernment to realize anything that is not loving and kind and giving/forgiving and healing in the bible is manmade or distortion, they're still being good.

edit on 9-1-2014 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

Yes chakras are real and Revelation can on one level be seen as a description of chakras. But the same story in the bible can have many levels of information that you cannot see or refuse to see. Some will not want to see the information on chakras. Some will not want to see other higher level information there or are blind to it.

There is nothing to worry about. If you are supposed to see it then either you will find it yourself or someone will come along and give you information you are supposed to act on.

Jesus do not need to have the bible to preach. The word is within as the symbiosis with god is. But that do not mean god haven't put a lot of hints here and there to help us see thru the blindness.

By the way. Hi Unity_99. . Namaste on all levels of meaning.

reply to post by ahnggk

2. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: - It did not rain in any of Hitler's public speeches (I could be wrong)

Was Hitler a true prophet?
He said that he would win the war, but did he actually win?

arpgme
Was Hitler a true prophet? He said that he would win the war, but did he actually win?

He won in the same way Jesus "won" against the Romans. Time will tell if people will be talking about him 1,000 years from now, following his "teachings," but so far the odds are in favor of it.

reply to post by HumAnnunaki


Take 100 people. Scholars, average blokes, blue collar, ESL students, English majors etc. who have no Biblical training whatsoever . . . atheists say . . .

Give them the text about the 2 Witnesses and ask them what they think the passage is describing. List as many options as you can think up, including 2 individuals who are killed with their human bodies lying in the streets of Jerusalem for 3.5 days before they are taken up to Heaven.

See how many choose that option.

Most folks are not as . . . wanting . . . in common sense or simple logic and textual comprehension as most of those determined to mangle, distort and render silly the written Word of God.

However such groping and mangling of the Biblical text probably keeps some folks off the streets and providing entertainment for those who get their jollies reading absurd assertion after absurd assertion.

Personally, I'd be embarrassed if a child, brother or parent of mine were to claim such nonsense.

The language in the Biblical text is rather plain and clear.

The symbolic passages about the Two Witnesses may be interesting after a fashion. However, as with most Biblical symbols . . . they are mostly a mystery UNTIL THEY ARE FULFILLED. Then they becomes clear.

The foolhardy may pontificate at elaborate fanciful length as though they KNOW the meaning to the nth degree. I've never found it so in all my 60+ years.

denybedoomed
A Bit of a stretch, don't you think?

". . . a bit?" . . . A weak and inaccurate assertion. It's a further stretch than out to Alpha Centauri . . . over to Orion . . . out to a galactic cluster 12 galactic clusters over . . . back to Mars . . . out again to a galactic cluster 8 galactic cluster over . . . etc.

reply to post by ahnggk


Your assertions sound like you have never been within a trillion light years of the Biblical text.

It would hardly be more far fetched for you to take an excursion down Alice's rabbit hole . . . taking some imaginary trips while there . . . and concocting a totally rabbit hole Red Queen tinged fictional story of elaborate absurdities.

Did Sam's Club have a fire sale on train loads of hubris recently?

There are some mystifying Scriptures that folks have taken really extreme flights of fancy off of. And some groups and individuals have claimed before that the 2 Witnesses are groups or institutions or whatever instead of 2 individuals. All such notions have been starkly askew from the simple and clear meaning of the text.

The more scholarly and well grounded in reason folks content themselves with arguing about whether the 2 witnesses will be Elijah and Moses or Elijah and Ezekiel or Elijah and Enoch or some such Old Testament personages.

The simple and rational logic of those speculations are because Elijah, and Enoch did not yet die in their bodies in this dimension. I forget about Ezekiel. It is appointed unto man once to die. So it's a reasonable and simple logic to consider that the 2 Witnesses may well be Elijah and Enoch.

Some have speculated about Moses but I don't think he's in the running.