Sumerian conceptions of the Afterlife.

Kantzveldt
Then perhaps the dark gravitational forces that some detect and conjecture might be a parallel universe is simply the ever expanding great city of the dead, a far more expansive realm than that of the living...

Brilliant that. Sunk deep into my psyche. Maybe, even, the universe isn't expanding so much as in the process of splitting into light and dark. Just a thought.

reply to post by The GUT


Wanted to add that my imperfect understanding of dark matter / energy (though I understand they are not the same thing) made me muse that perhaps they were the mass of spirit that permeates the universe.

Hey, it's at least possible...

reply to post by Harte



I think that's an important point, that the dead were simply seen not to return, at least en masse, but i don't think the afterlife was essentialy wishful thinking on the part of the Sumerians, as they had extensive rituals for countering malign spiritual elements, and the doctrine of spirit equating with the wind and Divine in nature was all pervasive, thus it's survivability after physical death fully sourced in their understandings of life in general and their experiences within it.



reply to post by Baddogma



It's been the season for it, the gloomy wind swept and rain lashed chill of typical British winter, i simply channeled the all pervasive murky misery...

The Sumerians wouldn't have troubled themselves much contemplating whether there really was an afterlife, they were more concerned with what happened if you didn't perform the required rituals to ensure the deceased passed into the Great City, troublesome confused ghosts that haunted locales and allowed dark chaos to permeate into the everyday ordering, that needed to go were they would not be lonely.



reply to post by The GUT



It's true, Sumerian mystics would have expected such results, the Underworld is a really heavy place...

Kantzveldt
I think that's an important point, that the dead were simply seen not to return, at least en masse, but i don't think the afterlife was essentialy wishful thinking on the part of the Sumerians, as they had extensive rituals for countering malign spiritual elements, and the doctrine of spirit equating with the wind and Divine in nature was all pervasive, thus it's survivability after physical death fully sourced in their understandings of life in general and their experiences within it.

My post was in response to the question of why maintain all this without reincarnation.

The belief in an afterlife unquestionably predates Sumer by a long shot. Having millenia to work with, people over time developed all the curliques that go with the belief. What you describe is simply the particular set of embellishments of that belief that was developed by these people over that time.

Harte

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Fascinating thread and beautifully illustrated. What struck me was the idea that the dead would never see the light from the underworld and their city was forever expanding and expanding. I see the link into another dimension, as by now one would certainly be needed.

I cannot not quite align my thinking to staying permanently or perhaps the odd possibility of being recalled to normal life. My thinking find it hard to isolate that view with the view of the dead's spirit leaving this earth and becoming at one with the stars and the flight of Pharaoh's spirit etc.

I do feel that the Sumerian view is slightly unbalanced in its leading only to a dark and gloomy existence for our dead souls. Am I right in thinking that in their view everyone, ends up in the same place? (I am not promoting the ideas of a heaven, hell etc just focusing on the Sumerian view. When one looks at the Egyptian ideas and of course the Eastern reincarnation views they just seem more 'balanced' somehow due to the bluntly put recycling that is such a part of the universal workings of the planetary system in which we exist.

reply to post by Harte



It does, and i would consider the role of the bull God in this regard as dating back at least as far as the early Neolithic period were it is particularly prominent, likewise Eres-Kigal and the concern with the absorbtion of the physical body back into the Earth could also reach far back in time.

Looking at the two traditions it is hard to see that they were ever entirely independent but were long understood as complimentary.


reply to post by Shiloh7



Yes there was only the one place, but to make comparison with Egyptian beliefs is somewhat problematic as the old Kingdom tradition from Royal burials only really concerns itself with the reincarnation of the Divine Horus spirit and it's transition through the Underworld to be reborn as Ruler, and the Ba of the deceased taking it's place amongst the imperishable circumpolar stars as privilege, there were other aspects such as the Ka that remained within the tomb ad-infinitum.

What the expectations of the common people were is a different question, the coffin texts of the Middle Kingdom suggest ritual for the upper elements in society, a place of judgement within the Amduat were the soul is either destroyed or allowed to take it's place within a Kingdom of the dead ruled by Osiris, but the Egyptians were generally vague and contradictory in these regards, their main obsession was with the course of the afterlife journey and spells to assist in what would be encountered.

The cult of Osiris as Lord of the Underworld always had potential physical resurrection as an aspect being based upon observation of the principles of nature, but then in Sumeria there was also the basis for such in Inanna's descent into the Underworld and the subsequent continuation of this principle of return as enacted by Dumuzid and his sister, the concern in both traditions is with physical resurrection as seen within nature.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


I've just come here to confirm and laud your love of Lisa Gerard.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Thanks for your time writing this article
I really appreciate it (I always want to know more about Sumer and other ancient nations but lazy to read the materials, You and other ATS writers make them easy)

peace.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


OMG!!!!! Your work is amazing, I hope your getting paid to use those skills of yours, otherwise you are robbing the world of truly remarkable gift.

I can not even make a good stick man, I don't think you make a bad work if you tried.

SnF for the illustrations alone.

Wish I could give you another for the info.

A+ for artwork. There's something magical about those illustrations. Keep it up. Do you have an art website?

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Extremely interesting and the art is fantastic. We don't see threads like this very often here anymore.

Thank you, you are very talented... I don't say that lightly.

reply to post by oblvion


Well i get paid sometimes for delivering art sessions at a most basic community level, this often involves sticky things, glitter and coloured paper and such, but generally i don't look to sell artwork, i just like dabbling to understand how it works...don't worry about not being able to do a good stick man they're overated


reply to post by GalaxyEyes


I put a few bits and bobs in members art herebut i don't have any sort of gallery online as i don't really have a body of work as such, i just like to understand the process in order to have a better appreciation of art in general, so my pictures are just little exercises.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Yes that's me. sat around eating Christmas chocolates and drawing weird pictures of the Underworld while listening to Dead Can Dance in the all pervading gloom...very self indulgent lol


reply to post by dodol


That's good, there's a nice balance around these parts between the speculative and factual which i also appreciate.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Every time I see one of your threads, I know that it is a little masterpiece.
S&f, Kantzveldt. And Thanks.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


No worries. I am currently sitting around lamenting the loss of my guitar.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Please draw me a picture of 'oblivion' that I can use as an avi, I am awestruck, almost godsmacked by those pics.

The world is seen more clearly in your works than the CIAs million megapixel sat cams.

This doesn't often happen to me with art, being science minded, but your pictures haunt me...truly they do, I have spent over an hour just looking at them.....they may well be the most beautiful thing I have seen since children were born.

I don't have the words to describe my meaning, were it that I was a poet or writer, that I might put into words how amazing I think your gifts are.

You outpace "the scream" even, my second favorite ever after "starry starry night" by Van Gogh

reply to post by oblvion


One more question, did you draw your avi?

If so................just my god, if I ever had the talent you keep in you little toe........I would have long since conquered this world and ruled with an unflinching kindness, an unyielding plenty, an overbearing burden of hope nd hospitality to all that I could effect.

In a dark and happy sort of Darth Vaderish kind of joyful expression.

Sorry but I am a paradoxical type.

It is all sunshine and rainbows as the masses weep and cry out in the agony of joy type. We humans....just seem to find the best in our worst, it is perplexing honestly.

For effect I find the words of the song "blood" by " in this moment" and also " beautiful tragedy" to be quite beautiful and revealing about humanity.

reply to post by oblvion



No i didn't draw my avatar that's by Leonardo da Vinci, and is of course great...


But you're right in that 'beautiful tragedy' was the prevailing mood of my illustrations here, and they are an invitation to contemplate as it were sense of mystery and see in it what one will.

When you say 'Oblivion', you mean the movie...?

reply to post by Kantzveldt


awesome artworks!!!! i want to see more of them in ur future threads!!

peace

reply to post by Kantzveldt

Interesting theories these Sumerians and you have on the afterlife, it is all off course completely wrong. But all manifestations will come to life for those that manifested it, and they will live to regret it. Pun intended...

Cool song and artwork you have there in its own peculiar gloomy way, you should do more of them.