Scientific American - How our Brain turns Women into Objects

Glass

I might suggest that women are more attracted to men who see them as objects, though they call this "confidence".

Allow me to disagree. While some young women may see through the façade and be players for the fun of it especially in groups, no woman wants to be seen as an object/ hunk of meat unless her psyche is damaged. To me confidence in oneself takes a lot of work given what stereotypes we have to fight against. Education and competence is what give us confidence, imo. The older I get, the more I believe men still see us as marks to exploit.

darkbake
Scientific American

So, objectification might not lead to perceptions of women as inanimate objects but as different kinds of humans—ones that are capable of feeling but not thinking. To test this hypothesis Gray et al. presented participants with images of individuals and varied the amount of flesh shown in the pictures (the amount of “body focus”). In line with their hypothesis, seeing full bodies, as compared to just faces, caused ratings of agency to diminish but ratings of experience to increase. The same was true when naked bodies were compared with clothed bodies. Indeed, as the sexual suggestiveness of the images increased, perceptions of agency decreased and perceptions of experience increased accordingly.

As a graduated psychology major, I always find psychological studies fascinating - I even took the statistics and RDA (Research Design and Analysis) classes needed in order to know about how valid studies are made. So check this out, this study shows that men who see attractive women don't think the women are capable of thinking.

I want to point out, on a side note, that this could be a reason to date someone you are less attracted to. There is a higher probability, as a man, that you will treat them as an equal, and that will result in a better relationship.

So for people doing online dating - you might be better of messaging someone you don't find attractive. And this doesn't likely have to do with you being ugly - similar, well somewhat similar, studies have shown that people who are on the same level of attractiveness have more stable relationships.

In addition, studies by OkCupid showed that if you message someone you are less attracted to, you are more likely to get a response.

So keep that in mind.

The Atlantic: Study: The Objectification of Women is a Real, Measureable Phenomenon

Here is a second study.

HANS VILLARICAMAY 24 2012, 10:47 AM ET

Both male and female subjects in a recent experiment perceived near-naked men in sexualized ads as human beings, but could only see attractive women as objects.

METHODOLOGY: Researchers led by Philippe Bernard presented participants pictures of men and women in sexualized poses, wearing a swimsuit or underwear, one by one on a computer screen. Since pictures of people present a recognition problem when they're turned upside down, but images of objects don't have that problem, some of the photos were presented right side up and others upside down. After each picture, there was a second of black screen before each participant was shown two images and was asked to choose the one that matched the one he or she had just seen.

RESULTS: The male and female subjects matched the photos similarly. They recognized right-side-up men better than upside-down men, suggesting that they saw the sexualized men as persons. On the contrary, the women in underwear weren't any harder to recognize when they appeared upside down, indicating that the sexy women were consistently identified as objects.

CONCLUSION: People objectify women in sexualized photos, but not men.

In this study, it is shown that both men and women objectify women, especially attractive women. That means that they aren't treating them as something (ahem) someone with their own opinion and perspective - but as a tool, just like a hoe, rope or shovel.

I think, guys, this must be when relationships go downhill. That's why we all would be better off dating very manly Nordic women that can intimidate us. Aside from the jokes, I do find this to be a serious topic.

I think that women being treated as equals to men is something that needs to happen - and also something that a lot of us out there don't even understand the concept of - that means that we think women are equal to men, but that is no where near the case -

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For a few examples: I went over to a friend's house to play some cards, and he was an older man with a wife - and his wife was completely submissive, so much so that she would shake when talking to him and not give her opinion. When I treated her as an equal, she got suspicious.

In another case, I was dating a girl who was a Jehovah's Witness. When I would ask her her opinion on things, she would say things like "Why are you asking me?" or "Why do I get to decide?" and there was a whole culture of women being submissive slaves, essentially, entirely legal, in the U.S.

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If you don't think that is strange, think of it this way. A man or woman is only defined by their genitals. Any belief that women naturally think differently than men is sexist - but also hard to prove since the way we act based on our gender is forced into us by society.

My point is, even if you are a guy, imagine that you are forced into a female's body with the exact same thoughts - but you are not allowed to speak, you are only allowed to obey, you are not allowed to have an opinion -

On a broader note, think of a room-mate situation or maybe a wife of a similar nature.

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And I admit that I was naturally a sexist person (I didn't even realize it) - I have no idea why, but I'm thinking my parents or Disney movies - but I have been trying hard for around 5 years to get over it.

I think my mom is actually a butch lesbian and I'm not sure what's up with my dad he's eccentric.

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geeze, were they wearing the same underwear upside down?

we are hardwired for profiling.

good looking people are good looking, to anyone.

no one knows if they are as dumb as a box of rocks.

i call crap on the study, how much did it cost?

reply to post by darkbake


Thought that was an excellent opening post and i really enjoyed not only the information you presented but your thoughts on it to.

A very interesting study to say the least, cant wait to read the replies in this thread.

aboutface

Glass

I might suggest that women are more attracted to men who see them as objects, though they call this "confidence".

Allow me to disagree. While some young women may see through the façade and be players for the fun of it especially in groups, no woman wants to be seen as an object/ hunk of meat unless her psyche is damaged.

I certainly hope that AboutFace is right - and I mean, I have been great friends with girls - it would be pretty scary if there were some who enjoyed being treated like an object or hunk of meat - I am guessing there are some who allow it because they think it is the cultural norm - but I bet they are secretly hating it.

The reality is that people think the same as other people. So just consider the kind of feelings you would have if you lived in a house with a room-mate who was ordering you around, making you clean, keeping you from seeing friends, not appreciative, etc. and that's really all it is.

I think one of the greatest discoveries is probably the realization that to date someone you just have to treat them the same as you would treat one of your best guy friends.

Also, living with room-mates opened my eyes more to the benefits of equality and empathy.

tsingtao

geeze, were they wearing the same underwear upside down?

we are hardwired for profiling.

good looking people are good looking, to anyone.

no one knows if they are as dumb as a box of rocks.

i call crap on the study, how much did it cost?

Lol - hopefully not a lot - you can make a study like this for the cost of a few large pizzas. Pizza seems to be relevant currency when it comes to psychology studies.

reply to post by darkbake


About the submissive thing. As a man, NEVER say to a Japanese woman "so, what do you want to do tonight? or, "It's up to you" It drives them nuts and they can't stand it. Weird, I know but it's the honest truth. I understand it though.

Interesting. I'm going to toss out my own opinion on this, though, it just seems like we're overlooking something crucial in our puzzle of a history of a specie.
I still think we're dealing with biological straggler behavior, leftover formerly important (for whatever reasons) criteria that are somewhat distorted now. If I were to guess at why women are seen as unthinking objects to some, it could be that it's the male reproductive side taking over a little and focusing solely on the physical traits they'd desire in their offspring. In this context, this makes perfect sense to me, block out the useless, focus on the useful. What's more useful to the primitive reproductive drive than qualities that ensure further reproduction? A body can tell a potential mate a good deal about what to expect. Such as, generous hips = easy births, maybe even lots of them. Thin or fit figure = possibly less caloric intake needed for maintaining, therefore less pressure on the hunter/gatherer/breadwinner instinct. I do think somewhere a long the line of evolutionary changes, this was fritzed, and therefore some peoples' genetics dictate that the only thing to desire in a spouse is the promise of successful offspring. It would seem that by default, independence & self-sufficiency isn't on the bullet points list.

And I do fully agree that women objectify each other. A LOT. And we don't just do it because someone's something pretty to eyeball. Any woman who disputes this notion is blind as a bat. Even amongst out closest friends, we're still competitive in the Snag-A-Mate game. We'll continue probably until the end of time or until this urge to compete unconsciously is dropped from the species traits. Ever found a petty reason to think you're better than your friend? Prettier face? Skinnier? Nicer hair? More supple skin? Better smile? Nicer teeth? More sculpted arms? Better manicured nails? Think your feet are sexier than her sausage toes? There you go, you're measuring yourselves against your friends, an unrecognized competitive urge. Women do this all. the. time, with friends and strangers alike, whether we're aware of it or not.
There's a reason gorgeous women are practically viewed with jealousy, disdain & disrespect in the eyes of other women, they're a threat on a primal level. They're going to catch a man's eye quicker, and she'll be pursued harder. Why do you think some women have no problem saying best buddy Suzie looks like a total whore in that strappy get-up? That kind of competition isn't desirable, even if we're not actively competing for a suitor. Granted, we have billions of people to pick from, thus no shortage of potential mates at our disposal, but this is ingrained in us & it's very much our nature. It's a hot mess of primal remnant traits, modern traits, and evolving social standards. We're kind of in a state of flux in that regard, we know something's wrong or improper to do, but we'll swipe away anyway, the impulses are still there.

Sometimes I think we overthink our behaviors a little too much. The simple stuff is often quite adequate when context is remembered.

Oh no! Men want to follow their natural instinct to breed, something must be wrong!!! Bunch of genocidal horse crap.

I'm a bi sexual woman and I know I objectify women but in a very fleeting way, as in something desirable wandered across your view and you make an instantaneous judgement. In that moment I'm not seeing her as a person with feelings etc, but beyond that, once you get to know people, objectification drops away.

It's probably an instinctive thing. Guys subconsciously think breeding, girls have to assess the whole guy in terms of safety and the survival of any offspring. If it's extremely hard wired, it may be both males and females inherit the same wiring for it.

If it's not hard wired then perhaps it is learnt behaviour in our pretty sick society... my family virtually hated women which was a lot to overcome personally and learn to respect them (myself included). I was literally raised to believe women were lesser perhaps as other families were raised to believe other races are inferior.

I'm very surprised the study didn't find this to be true for men as well, because I have seen some women's reactions to hot men and they just about fall over themselves, not giving a rat's ass for the guy as a person. Ever seen a male strip show?