Plant DNA Challenging Preconceptions About Evolution, Even Human Evolution

reply to post by soficrow


It seems to me that this describes the mechanism as parasitism. If that's so, then the last place we should be looking at present is in modern humans. We've done everything we can to stamp out parasitism. In fact, hasn't it been speculated that some of our present allergy problems are at least in part because the part of our immune system that attacks parasites isn't challenged enough?

Thankfully, there are still plenty of wild reservoirs of parasitism, and many people in less developed countries still suffer from heavy parasitic loads.

How do you think these researchers would go about looking for evidence of animal genetic material cross-swapped between species?

It also seems to me that this might be one of the reasons that Ol' Darwin needs an update.

reply to post by ketsuko

It seems to me that this describes the mechanism as parasitism.
....How do you think these researchers would go about looking for evidence of animal genetic material cross-swapped between species?

I don't agree that it's a parasitic mechanism, but will think about it a bit more. ...Back in the 1970's or '80's, researchers documented viruses carrying "infectious proteinaceous material." Prusiner spent the next 30-odd years defending his "prion hypothesis" while Big Pharma and their army of microbiologists made their fortunes using viruses to 'carry' gene-altering proteins into cells. To answer your question - If they wanted to they would search for prions and prion-like misfolded proteins, and they would definitely find them. But they don't want to find the evidence so they don't look. lol

reply to post by soficrow


Oh, so it's more like a viral mechanism where genetic material gets injected and some genes that weren't strictly intended to be there get transferred around in the shuffle ...

Plants must have a much more refined way of doing it or else it's far less likely that having random bits of DNA suddenly injected into them causes the same kinds of problems that it does for animals. But then, having multiple sets of chromosomes isn't nearly the problem for plants like it is for animals.

It says plants have less background or "junk" DNA though. I wonder how that will jive with the recent discovery that "junk" DNA isn't junk, but has its own function?

Wow this is some cool stuff. It kind of makes the mind run wild with possibilities if we can harness these genome piggy-backs in humans. The examples they mentioned of splicing salamander dna into human dna to regrow fingers could only be the beginning. This is all exciting stuff. S&F OP for the find.

Parasites of various kinds contain Chitosans which stimulate our bodies to heal. Some plants contain chitinases which dissolve chitosan along with the chitin so it kills parasites. Medicines often contain Chitinases to suppress our immune system so the medicines are not rejected so we don't get an immediate bad reaction. It does this because the Chitinases chosen suppress the mamillian chitinase that humans produce. Plant chitinases also suppress the mamillian chitinase to a certain extent when we eat them, this boosts our immune system by not constantly using the chemicals of our immune system up.

Meanwhile, some plant chitinases can break apart the chitosan and this can slow healing. Chitosan is also found in stuff like shrimp and anything that has a shell...sea bugs. These shelled animals are good for us for this reason but they often contain high levels of bromides, because they live on the bottom. Bromide levels are different in different areas of the ocean and I cannot find out which areas are of concern.

Back to the topic. I wonder what system the prions use to misfold the cells. Evidently the chitinase in plants is not fixing this problem. If we strengthened the mamillian chitinases we produce, I doubt if this will help either. Many foods we are told to eat, lots of the antioxidant foods, slow cell death and may make the problem worse. Our body needs to act swiftly to destroy these prion cells before they can build defenses to avoid detection. Seems like taking anything that even slightly suppresses our immune system or scrambles the signals to the cells could have a negative effect, allowing the prions to take hold. Cancer makes a protective mucus coating on it that bromelain or papain can disolve, these two enter our system through our stomach. They do not tolerate heat well though. Bromelain does not pose a lot of risk, grapefruits and pineapples eaten occasionally do not hurt, but papain is a problem if not denatured by heat. Too much bromelain and you break down the mucus in the lungs, stomach, and intestines and this can cause problems also. This same mucus protects cells all over the body, without it we would have lots of inflammation. Grapefruit and pineapple are medicines unless cooked.

So is it a mucus that protects the misfolded proteins?

Here is some new information Sofi. I have been saying this for a while. I suppose it needs a thread, I don't really like starting threads much though, I would rather contribute to them. www.sciencedaily.com... I've read many articles on this subject, it is about the same as nutrigenomics.

reply to post by rickymouse


As you know, I've been ranting about epigenetics here for years - and yes, it is the key to many cancers. Interesting that more people see the commercial value. Won't be posting or starting a thread on the topic but wish you the very best of luck.

soficrow
reply to post by rickymouse

 

As you know, I've been ranting about epigenetics here for years - and yes, it is the key to many cancers. Interesting that more people see the commercial value. Won't be posting or starting a thread on the topic but wish you the very best of luck.

I call it nutrigenomics, a name that seems to be older than epigenetics. I found out about this about eight years ago. The first article I read about it was a couple of years older than that. I think they are basicly the same thing, but one is about identifying the foods you should eat because of your hereditary lineage while the other is about the actual genetic expression. Both are extremely related. This article sort of says they are related, which I like to see.

Gene expression is very important.

I noticed that when I cut the tip of my finger off recently, it healed pretty quick. The fingerprint formed well on all but one section and this section has an almost bumpy like look. This reminds me of something I read about the replacement tail on a certain salamander that loses it's tail when it is scared or caught by an animal. The replacement tail is nowhere near the same as the original. The bone and joints are different than the virgin tail. When we repair is the patch the same as the original?

I read a while back that someone had figured how to grow back a finger but the finger had a different appearance. It actually was tried on a person. A scientist did it to himself or a relative. I wonder if the finger is still operating correctly or if there were any complications. You never hear of things after a while. I suppose they are trying to figure out how to make it expensive. That could take years.

reply to post by rickymouse

I suppose they are trying to figure out how to make it expensive. That could take years.

Thank you. Needed a good chuckle. ...I shy away from any terms/disciplines/approaches that glom onto genetics or genomics (eg., "nutrigenomics"). The spectre of eugenics and euthanasia just looms too large. On the other hand, diet absolutely can influence gene expression.

reply to post by soficrow


And gene expression can alter our perception. More than just foods interact with gene expression though. Food creates energy. Any energy source can also alter gene expression if it is constant. The cooling of fall changes our perception and our gene expression. It is important to eat for the seasons also. Many traditions were designed to steer us into eating certain foods certain times of the year. This kept us healthier and civil. Now some try to tell us these aren't important, then they sell us pills.

I think that the horizontal transfer of genetics in humans can be accomplished. This could be dangerous though. Those who want power can use it against us in the future.

reply to post by rickymouse

I think that the horizontal transfer of genetics in humans can be accomplished. This could be dangerous though. Those who want power can use it against us in the future.

Not sure what you mean. Horizontal transfer means spreading like a cold or other virus, horizontally. Gene transfer -genetic inheritance- is vertical, meaning the parents pass genes along to children vertically through the generations. In nature, turns out bacteria and other microbes can transfer their genes horizontally, like a disease, for successful survival traits like antibiotic resistance. In comparison, complex organisms supposedly cannot transfer genetic information horizontally. However, the evidence shows that epigenetic information is spread horizontally, notably via infections like flu. These epigenetic traits are inheritable but seem to disappear after about 4 generations if they are not beneficial. Conversely, beneficial epigenetic traits apparently find a way to become part of the genetic code.

...Are you suggesting that DNA might be seeded directly into human populations? Or ....? There is much food for thought here, and speculation, not to mention a great sci-fi story. Either way, protect us from fools playing god.

reply to post by soficrow


I kind of worded that a little wrong. What I am implying is that it seems that horizontal transfer of traits or gene expression may be possible. Say a woman who is pregnant decided to change mates. I think the new male sperm could somehow influence gene expression. The basic DNA would be the same but the sperm or possibly the seminal fluid of the new mate constantly in contact might change the way the baby forms. I looked for studies on this but found nothing concerning it at all. Everything has been aimed at change to a small part of the DNA, this is the legal part.

Now I do not know if this is probable but I think there may be some influence. Even what a woman eats when pregnant can effect the fetus. Even what a woman bathes with can effect a fetus.

reply to post by rickymouse


Horizontal and vertical transfer refer to genes. Bacteria and viruses definitely share genes horizontally within their communities - without contact with the originator. I don't think you can talk about "horizontal transfer of traits or gene expression" in people although many things DO affect gene expression - and epigenetic effects can be inherited (passed along). ...I am most interested in epigenetic inheritance via proteins - and you're right, virtually any exposure can affect protein conformation and thereby, the fetus. But it's not genetic and not "horizontal" transfer.

...You're working something important out here - keep at it.

I have thought this for a long time. www.sciencedaily.com...

Finally they have acknowledged that Junk DNA does matter. This Junk influences protein formation. No food additives or even foods are tested against it's influence on non coding proteins. Prions should be destroyed by the body, but they are not for some reason. Something is causing problems with the destruction of these miscoded proteins. Right now they are trying to study how to repair a problem after it occurs. They should be focusing on studying reasons why the problem is occurring in the first place.

I don't think a virus is causing these misfolded proteins, that is evident because the virus does not have to spread, it could be sitting harmless in the body. All viruses have multiple reasons for being, they may cause harm one way and they may repair something another. Either way they innitiate change....unless their troublesome actions are suppressed by the body. Why aren't they being suppressed? Too much change in the body chemistry to fast is my thoughts. The Western diet is far from good, but many of us of northern European descent cannot eat a mediteranian diet, we have not evolved with it.

I think the nutritional departments of some industrialized countries should be thinking more instead of jumping at things. They know how to memorize things but do not know how to apply this knowledge properly. Some researchers are "getting a clue" about this stuff but their supervisors are overeducated and cannot see what they are doing wrong. When I say overeducated I am saying they have knowledge but no common sense as to properly apply the information. Just because you have two degrees does not mean you can apply the information appropriately or even see that what you have been taught is wrong. Knowledge can blind us.

Sorry for getting off topic.

Krazysh0t
Wow this is some cool stuff. It kind of makes the mind run wild with possibilities if we can harness these genome piggy-backs in humans. The examples they mentioned of splicing salamander dna into human dna to regrow fingers could only be the beginning. This is all exciting stuff. S&F OP for the find.

Hmm. I think the whole point of the article is that gene swapping between species occurs naturally - and they're just beginning to see how often.