For the sake of argument, let’s admit that God exists.

Aphorism
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Then let it continue to be artwork, and not a political movement. Not to mention that this is an impractical argument you're making. You are calling technicalities, none of which actually proven useful in the context in which they are most often used. In simpler terms, God as a fictional character of art and literature is just as impractical a modern philosophical basis as his previous incarnations. Shall we worship Harry Potter as well? Or maybe Gandalf the White?

Only idiots would worship a fictional character. Only idiots would try to prove it doesn't exist. This reconciles the two idiots to a place where they can understand what it actually is they're talking about.

Only idiots would attempt to convince idiots that trying to prove a fictional character fictional to idiots is idiocy. So now that you've determined every participant in this thread is an idiot, can we get to the part where we have some productive discussion?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Only idiots would attempt to convince idiots that trying to prove a fictional character fictional to idiots is idiocy. So now that you've determined every participant in this thread is an idiot, can we get to the part where we have some productive discussion?

Sure. What outside of the fictional character of God do you talk about when you discuss it?

reply to post by Aphorism


Most define whatever they are looking at by their own bias.

If they do not want something to "exist," they will define it in the most limited way imaginable to find every way to discredit the idea. If someone wants something to "exist," they will define it in the way that helps confirm that bias.

True exploration of the actual pattern and characteristics of the topic are next to impossible to find. Most only wish to confirm their bias, regardless of where the road leads.

The interesting part is that it doesnt seem to matter whether one believes in God(s), doesnt believe in them, or has no belief involved whatsoever. The way we choose to live our life does not seem correlated to such things. Wicked, hateful people propose a belief in God(s), and wicked, hateful people can propose that God(s) does not exist.

Neither is relevant to how we act in our everyday lives. Its too bad that part is lost on so many...

reply to post by Serdgiam


I have to agree with that. Well said.

Aphorism

For the sake of argument, let’s admit that God exists.

 

If it doesn’t exist, then what are we talking about? What is it that atheists are denying? What is it that theists pray to? What is it agnostics care not to decide about?

IMO:

If it doesn’t exist, then what are we talking about?

Nobody knows , but its fun to speculate.

What is it that atheists are denying?

Like theists , atheists take a leap of faith on what the unknown is or isn't.

What is it that theists pray to?

To an inner personal form of meditation.

What is it agnostics care not to decide about?

The unknown. Although its fun to speculate and use science to TRY to come to a conclusion their is no evidence to support or comprehend the beginning of everything.

Simply, to many variables and no formulas or laws of physics to tie everything together in this and other universes in order to calculate the truth of it all.

reply to post by Aphorism


The word "love" is not love. If you think it is then write the word "money" on a piece of paper and go try to buy something with it. Let us know how it works out for you.

reply to post by Lilitu

The word "love" is not love. If you think it is then write the word "money" on a piece of paper and go try to buy something with it. Let us know how it works out for you.

Surely then you know what love is. What does love exist as? What are you talking about when you talk about love? If it is not the word love, then what is it? You're using Love as a noun; what person place or thing are you describing? Let us all know when you figure it out.

Aphorism
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Only idiots would attempt to convince idiots that trying to prove a fictional character fictional to idiots is idiocy. So now that you've determined every participant in this thread is an idiot, can we get to the part where we have some productive discussion?

Sure. What outside of the fictional character of God do you talk about when you discuss it?

Excellent question. Generally, I discuss not the idea itself, but those who regard it. Nothing reveals an idea like the minds of those who appreciate it, whether they like or hate it. If there is a regard and an opinion and a stance, then there is a reference point. Reference points tend to be just as great a "tell" as any tick a poker player may possess.

I have a fascination with connecting the dots, for exactly that reason. It often lends a dimension that would otherwise be lacking, a dimension comprised of the lives touched, the moments created, the opportunities allowed. That's where the "3D" comes in.

reply to post by Aphorism

AphorismPlainly stated, since God is only ever found within books, art, rhetoric and from various forms of human expression—indeed, we cannot know about God any other way—we must assume that this is as what, as where, and as how, God exists.

Why just assume and then pretend you know where other people find God.
Assume= Ass out of U and Me.

Why, if you think God is only existing( being alive bound by time) in the scriptures, do you disprove your own words.
You cannot deny God is here & now even if as you assume he is just a (meaningless?)word in the scriptures you have brought him( what you said was God) here to disprove that he is just a word in the scriptures.
If you believe God is found in various human expressions, that admission means to you God is not just a (meaningless) Word in the scriptures. God (as you say he exists) is in your mind here and now, even though you may believe it, your mind is not the scriptures.

What if you prayed and you heard back. Most people assume they never hear back. countless people have heard back. Even just ordinary joe blow christians, and even regular people with no religious affiliation. They hear back and that often leads them to believe that there is a God or some all powerful entity out there. It's only the ones that have never prayed assume there's nothing out there. There clearly is something out there, anyone who prays regularly or long enough about somethign gnerally knows this is true

LittleByLittle

itsallgonenow
reply to post by Aphorism

 

If I believe in god and you don't and he does not exist, I lose nothing. But If I am right and I believe in god and you don't, you lose everything.

Under the assumption that god is a small minded being who have chosen one single religion that is gods true followers. From my point of view Jesus say one thing and Paul says the opposite. The whole faith without works is dead vs faith is all.

You can't go wrong with following the golden rule and not judging.

Religion is the knowlege of good and evil that God told us not to touch in the garden of Eden.

reply to post by spy66


Religion is the knowlege of good and evil that God told us not to touch in the garden of Eden.

Interesting premise.
The word religion means to 'bind again'. Such knowledge was passed down in ancient times amongst primitive people, and went through a process of 'diffusion', scattered through out different tribes, clans and cultures before being 're-binded' into what we now know as the the Torah, Bible or Quran.

But that was then and this is now.

We now have a better understanding of it, not because we rely solely on ancient scripture, but because such knowledge is out there on the internet and has gone through the same process of 'diffusion'.

I do not think we were ready then and I do not think mankind is ready now to take that next step. But we are getting closer...

reply to post by Aphorism


No, I figure with the topic of discussion I could just make things up , wing it. Ya know spin it to whatever suits me. Kinda like the gospels. Idk just follow the 2000 yr old trend. Maybe try to cram my fairytale down peoples throats. Should be use to that type of behavior huh?

Aphorism
reply to post by Ghost147

 

What truly is pointless is making a topic based on your self proclaimed theism due solely to the fact that you believe the word "God" exists, yet the concepts behind that word do not.

I never said the concepts behind the word do not exist. So, as per usual, you seem to be making stuff up so that you can argue about it, just like when you argue about God. It's pure fiction.

This entire topic is of your notion that the only thing that you agree with is that a word exists, and imply that that is all that exists about it, as well as all that we should rationally talk about, debate, pray to, and so forth.

In your words...

Aphorism

Plainly stated, since God is only ever found within books, art, rhetoric and from various forms of human expression—indeed, we cannot know about God any other way—we must assume that this is as what, as where, and as how, God exists… Therefor, I agree with the theists that God exists, but only insofar as it exists as a word in a book.

There for, this topic is entirely pointless.

reply to post by Ghost147


So you're saying words don't have concepts behind them? I seriously have no clue what you're trying to say.

But I realize that there is a fine line between saying something is pointless and not understanding the point.

You're responding to a pointless thread and I'm responding to pointless replies. There is some humour in that at least.

reply to post by BDBinc
Then where did you first learn about god?

Dark Ghost
reply to post by spartacus699

 

Many atheists were raised under a religious tradition during childhood and only had the opportunity to break away from the influence of organised religion when they reached their adult years. Consequently, many atheists are likely to be relatively well versed in religious concepts and scripture by the time they reach adulthood.

edit on 6/1/2014 by Dark Ghost because: (no reason given)

yeah, versed but not understood.

obviously.

Krazysh0t

itsallgonenow
reply to post by Aphorism

 

If I believe in god and you don't and he does not exist, I lose nothing. But If I am right and I believe in god and you don't, you lose everything.

That creates a bad situation where someone is forced to believe due to trying to avoid the consequences. Shouldn't one believe because it is fulfilling spiritually instead of out of fear of going to a bad place when they die?

only if you are in 3rd grade.

no one has a fast pass to heaven, but some have a 1st class tic to hell.
do you people not know that?

C21H30O2I
reply to post by Aphorism

 

No, I figure with the topic of discussion I could just make things up , wing it. Ya know spin it to whatever suits me. Kinda like the gospels. Idk just follow the 2000 yr old trend. Maybe try to cram my fairytale down peoples throats. Should be use to that type of behavior huh?

you have been doing a good job of cramming stuff down throats here.

like your post.

no one cares, maybe God does, tho.

you could offer something of substance to the discussion, huh?

reply to post by Aphorism


Thats one of my questions too, when did man first heard about God, who was the first to use the word God.
What does the word God really means, And which God are we reffering to?
the God of the bible (Judaism, Christianity, Muslim)?
If thats the case I think they borrowed the concept of God, since paganism existed before Abraham (the creator of the three religions) and they changed it a lot, so there were Gods before the monotheistic approach.

But the Gods of the ancient polytheists were inside the Kosmos (universe) they were a part of the Kosmos (the power and the reason behind the universe) and not the outside creator such as monotheists believe.
So what is God? It was something superior to humans.
But what was believed before the pagans?

We don't even know the history of humanity, did they believed in a God 20,000 years ago, how about 100.000 years ago?
Lets return to the monotheistic approach, that the majority of today's people think of when they hear about God.

At some point people wanted to answer the ultimate questions ,(where we come from?, whats the meaning to our lifes? what happens after death?) All people subconsciously feel deeply insecure about these questions that at some point they started to seek for answers and thats when the concept of God created. It was mainly created to answer and justify reality and existence.
Naive primitive people didn't knew better, than imagine a powerfull being in the sky.
so God = unknown
Everything that people couldn't understand or explain was attributed to God.
Phrases like '' God works in mysterious ways'', ''Only God knows'', ''Fear of god'', etc just prove the above
God is also used as a friendly supernatural power that Helps people with their lives, which is also a solution to the insecurity,and the lack of self awareness and motivation.
Thats why theists, think atheists have empty and pointless lifes, Deep down subconsciously they wonder how we deal with our natural insecurities ( about life and death) .

itsallgonenow
reply to post by Aphorism

 

If I believe in god and you don't and he does not exist, I lose nothing. But If I am right and I believe in god and you don't, you lose everything.

That is just fear of the unknown=> fear of God
It is so plain and simple that all religions just sell peace of mind...

But the allmighty,ultimate powerfull being that created the universe and the genious behind the laws of nature and extremly complicated organisms. would be so much superior to human way of thinking that wouldn't be so arrogant, that if you don't believe in him He will have you tortured in hell forever.

What kind of Father would do that to his kids? I thought God loved us all, and if we are using our logic and question his existence then he made us that way so it is merely his fault.
God doesn't do mistakes? then he isn't perfect, so he isn't really the creator, so he is just a creation of human insecurity.