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For the sake of argument, let’s admit that God exists.

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posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 11:19 PM
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Aphorism
reply to post by BDBinc
 


Why do you refuse to answer? Is it because you know the answer but refuse to admit it?

Did God introduce himself? Did God come shake your hand? Surely you didn't imagine him in your mind out of thin air.

Or maybe you first learned of him from human expression?

I do not know what you are asking me.
What is the answer?
What human expression teaches one to know God?


edit on 7-1-2014 by BDBinc because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by spy66
 





Scripture is all written based on inspiration; said to be the Word of God. Jesus walked the Earth to forfill scripture. How can any of us prove a inspiration physically to you? That is something you must find within Your self. There are other ways to prove to Your self that God exists. But that would demand some Scientific understanding from Your part. You could start With asking Your self if the infinite exists. Either it does or it dosent. If you Accept it. How did the infinite form finite existance when the infinite is a absolute constant? I can Challenge you on this, but i know you will reject the fact in the end, because you wouldnt understand. Because you are already proving it, that you dont. edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)


Who says divine inspiration is the word of god? Only the people who wrote the bible and the people who claim the bible is the word of God. You're taking someone else's words as the word of god; that sounds almost blasphemous to me. But I know you'd reject that because you wouldn't understand.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 01:46 AM
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reply to post by BDBinc
 


You know exactly what I asked, but you refuse to answer. But don't worry, your refusal to answer signifies quite a bit.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 02:16 AM
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Aphorism
What is actual love? Show me any person place or thing in the world that you can call love.



Are you serious????

No wonder you believe in magical sky men. LOVE is an easily defined word you can find in an dictionary.


a (1) : strong affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties (2) : attraction based on sexual desire : affection and tenderness felt by lovers (3) : affection based on admiration, benevolence, or common interests b : an assurance of affection 2 : warm attachment, enthusiasm, or devotion 3 a : the object of attachment, devotion, or admiration b (1) : a beloved person : darling —often used as a term of endearment (2) British —used as an informal term of address 4 a : unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another: as (1) : the fatherly concern of God for humankind (2) : brotherly concern for others b : a person's adoration of God 5 : a god or personification of love 6 : an amorous episode : love affair 7 : the sexual embrace : copulation 8 : a score of zero (as in tennis) 9 capitalized Christian Science : god — at love : holding one's opponent scoreless in tennis — in love : inspired by affection
www.merriam-webster.com...

This is really not complicated and if you have never seen love, then what good is your "all loving god?"
I see love every day. I feel love every day. I seriously cannot believe I had to explain to you that it is a feeling, not a word written on paper.

Now will you please answer the question I asked in that post? I answered yours.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 02:31 AM
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JayinAR
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


In my view, to perceive is godly. To experience anything. Without that one thing, nothing else matters. Seems to be self evident. If you cannot seek god externally, you can find him within yourself.


So people that do not believe in or even know your god cannot experience anything? I have to wonder why I seem to experience so much just fine without your god. Can you actually explain this in a way people that do not even know your god may believe?



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 03:10 AM
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Itisnowagain

vethumanbeing
Gaining self awareness afterdeath? is TOO LATE.

What is 'after'? What is 'death'? They are concepts, ideas arising 'now' as 'life'.



What is death?????

Does no one have a dictionary anymore? These are not abstract concepts. When heart and brain functions cease, you are dead. I would love for you to show me that my "knowledge" that my grandmother is dead is a malleable concept that can be challenged. Can you do that?



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 03:21 AM
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vethumanbeing

Itisnowagain

vethumanbeing
Gaining self awareness afterdeath? is TOO LATE.

What is 'after'? What is 'death'? They are concepts, ideas arising 'now'
as 'life'.


Now you speaking platitudes. I can tell you what is 'after' this physical existance as Ive experienced it living NOW in physical form.

It may seem like a platitude if one has not understood the question.
When was it that you experienced after? Experience can only happen presently (now).


What is 'after'? What is 'death'? They are concepts, ideas arising 'now'
as 'life'.

Death is an idea that arises in life - just as sleep is an idea that arises in wakefulness. An 'idea' is a 'concept' - just a thought.
edit on 8-1-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 03:24 AM
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Buttonlip

Itisnowagain

vethumanbeing
Gaining self awareness afterdeath? is TOO LATE.

What is 'after'? What is 'death'? They are concepts, ideas arising 'now' as 'life'.



What is death?????

Does no one have a dictionary anymore? These are not abstract concepts. When heart and brain functions cease, you are dead. I would love for you to show me that my "knowledge" that my grandmother is dead is a malleable concept that can be challenged. Can you do that?

You may well see things appear (babies born) and things disappear (grandmother dying/disappearing) but have you yourself experienced death?
Have you experienced your disappearance?
edit on 8-1-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 03:28 AM
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Buttonlip
So people that do not believe in or even know your god cannot experience anything? I have to wonder why I seem to experience so much just fine without your god. Can you actually explain this in a way people that do not even know your god may believe?


In my view, to perceive is godly. To experience anything. Without that one thing, nothing else matters. Seems to be self evident. If you cannot seek god externally, you can find him within yourself.


That which is perceiving is God. All seeing, all knowing and ever present.

There is no 'personal god' - there is just God. God is that in which everything arises.
edit on 8-1-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 03:32 AM
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French philosopher Martial Guéroult suggested the term "Panentheism", rather than "Pantheism" to describe Spinoza’s view of the relation between God and the world. The world is not God, but it is, in a strong sense, "in" God. Not only do finite things have God as their cause; they cannot be conceived without God.
en.wikipedia.org...

All apparent 'things' arise and subside in God.
Words arise in God - words like 'death', words like 'after' but no word can arise outside of God.
God is the ever present witness.

Is it possible to locate that which is seeing the scenery?
The scenery is that which is seen - it is the light playing presently.

In the beginning there was nothing and God said let there be light then there was light and God saw it was good.



edit on 8-1-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 03:41 AM
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Itisnowagain
All apparent 'things' arise and subside in God.
Words arise in God - words like 'death', words like 'after' but no word can arise outside of God.
God is the ever present witness.

Is it possible to locate that which is seeing the scenery (that which is seen is the ever present play of light)?



edit on 8-1-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


Awesome. So those of us that do not believe in your god will never die? Can you please reunite me with my Atheist Grandfather? Or did he die without your god, rendering this nonsense...well nonsensical?



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 03:45 AM
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Buttonlip

Itisnowagain
All apparent 'things' arise and subside in God.
Words arise in God - words like 'death', words like 'after' but no word can arise outside of God.
God is the ever present witness.

Is it possible to locate that which is seeing the scenery (that which is seen is the ever present play of light)?



edit on 8-1-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


Awesome. So those of us that do not believe in your god will never die? Can you please reunite me with my Atheist Grandfather? Or did he die without your god, rendering this nonsense...well nonsensical?

Your grandfather was an appearance that has now ceased to be - but that which knows the appearance will never cease.
Notice that which appears cannot be held onto. Things come and go. Can you even hold on to a thought, make it not move/change to another thought?
Notice that the one that is seeing/knowing the appearance never goes away - never goes anywhere, never changes.

edit on 8-1-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 03:46 AM
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Buttonlip
So those of us that do not believe in your god will never die?

Who's god?

There is only God and things appear and disappear in God.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 03:53 AM
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That which finds that God is all there is will not taste death.
The fear of not being (not existing) will dissolve and one will be fearless and it will be the end of the human condition of suffering.
edit on 8-1-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 04:23 AM
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Aphorism
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


I am not a philosophy professor. You've already mentioned you did your own research. He defines his words in his book.

This is your thread and you have stated that Spinozas account of God is best and for you to state that you must have an understanding of his account. You have stated his God stuff was extremely tedious - yet you say it is the best.
I would be interested to hear your take on it -it is not for the sake of argument but for the sake of discussion and clarification.
What is it that Spinoza is pointing at when he uses the word 'God' in your honest opinion?
edit on 8-1-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 05:25 AM
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Aphorism
Therefor, I agree with the theists that God exists, but only insofar as it exists as a word in a book. But does it exist as anything else?

If the word god appears to exist does it have to have a book for it to appear in?
The word god appears in what?

Spinoza reckons the whole world (including thought and words) appears in God.
edit on 8-1-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:37 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





If the word god appears to exist does it have to have a book for it to appear in?
The word god appears in what?

Spinoza reckons the whole world (including thought and words) appears in God.



Yes. But we call that the universe now. Same thing, better name.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:42 AM
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Aphorism
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





If the word god appears to exist does it have to have a book for it to appear in?
The word god appears in what?

Spinoza reckons the whole world (including thought and words) appears in God.



Yes. But we call that the universe now. Same thing, better name.


I beg to differ. The universe is God in only the most abstract and poetic of ways. Which is to say, calling the universe God is merely an eupemistic expression of an emotional regard. Not exactly the most qualifying of addresses.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:10 AM
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Are you saying that you are interpreting Spinozas God as 'the universe'?

You use the word 'we' as though everyone agrees with your account.


But we call that the universe now.

edit on 8-1-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by Aphorism
 


I don't deny the 'existence' of a human construct termed "god", just as I don't deny that Osiris, Marduk, Krishna, Odin, The Great White Buffalo, the 9 Celestial Dragons, Jove and other characterizations 'existed' also, and exist now as mythologies once observed and paid faith as if they were actualities.

I do, however, deny the existence of any actual being or intelligence that could lay claim to any such title, and further, even if a physical embodiment representing or presenting itself as any god, either by name, or credentials were to personally demand, or even politely request my worship/adoration/following I'd kick them in the fork and tell them to get off my property.

Thus, even if there was, or were an undeniable god and/or gods actively participating in human affairs and interactions, I still wouldn't want anything to do with them/it.

Most people want/need someone or the impression of something telling them what to do.
They need/require the touch of represented authority in their lives.

Me? No thanks. I make my own rules, and thankfully they happen to coincide with what's generally accepted as both legal and socially acceptable in regular neighborly society.

Start letting gods run around off their leashes, pooping everywhere, and generally getting up to the nuisance gods are noted for in all the literature, and it's time to go on one of those literary epic quests of heros to find god-killing weapons, or prisons in which to cage them for ever, or some such.


So long as the gods stay locked up in their books, museums, archaeological ruin tourist attractions, temples, and generally under control, on the leash and safely out of reach of any sharp objects then the world should be relatively safe.




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