Can you picture Jesus using genocide as Noah’s God did?

Indigent
Sons always find ways to disappoint their fathers

Not any of my 4 yet.
But as a father I know I have hurt them somehow. All parents hurt their children one way or another. That is the given wisdom in any case.

Regards
DL

Eryiedes
Correct me if I am wrong but the man did say:

"I came not to bring peace, but to bring a sword."

"Genocide" only sounds like a hop, skip or a jump away...

-Peace-

I think that that was an esoteric sword that represents a tongue or voice.

Can you really see Jesus yielding a sword and cutting limbs?

Is the savior a murderer?

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

Klassified
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Some will point to a new covenant but God himself says that nothing he says will ever be retract and Jesus himself referred back to the old covenant in the bible so let’s not argue that please.

I'm sorry, but from the Christian perspective, or at least those who take the bible literally, the new covenant is exactly the argument you're going to get. Just because you reference those old testament scriptures that say the old covenant is perpetual, does not mean you understand them. So by saying you don't want to hear that argument, you have basically said you don't want to hear any explanation from Christians that don't agree with your bias.

As to Jesus being "a much softer and gentler and loving God." You might want to reread the new testament. A different approach? Yes. But he very much supported the God, and the law of the old testament before his crucifixion.

Can you picture Jesus doing the vile things that scriptures say he did in the O.T.?

Actually yes. Yes I can.

Are you ok with Jesus not following biblical advise that it gives us?

Romans 12:21
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Do you really see Jesus being overcome by evil and trying to overcome evil with evil?

Regards
DL

Sinter Klaas
It isn't genocide when you try and fix stuff you don't like. God tried to fix stuff he didn't like.
Considering man to be a creation of God, God can make man do anything.

He wouldn't consider death as an end either, only our puny minds do...

Jesus committing genocide would be like a war crime though, as He is born a man.

It is definitely genocide when you are omnipotent and can fix/cure everyone yet decide to take the satanic low moral ground and kill instead.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Lazarus Short

The Being who greeted Moses in the backside of the desert, at the burning bush, stated His Name: YHWH. This Name, called the tetragrammaton, is usually rendered as "Yaweh" or "I Am That I Am." Now if we insert the very ancient pictorial meanings of the letters in their place, we get this: Behold, the Hand, Behold, the Nail. It could be none other than Jesus.

That is quite a leap of the imagination and quite an over simplification of the Yod He Vau He. I suppose Yod He Vau He could be construed to mean "behold the hand, behold the nail, among many other things, but that doesn't infer that Jesus is the same deity who made the claim. It does, however, reinforce the notion that the deity speaking is claiming to be a builder/architect.

It is said that Jesus was the son of a carpenter, but that's about all I can see in the way of similarities. There were millions of men who were carpenters before and after the advent of Jesus, and tens of thousands of Jewish men crucified by the Romans. Trying to attribute Jesus to the name of Yahweh, Yod He Vau He, by connecting the hand and the nail, is just too abstract and vague to hold any water.

Now the second witness. When this same Jesus was crucified, Pilate (He was not the bad guy here, as he tried every political trick at his disposal to save Jesus.) placed a plaque over His head, stating "Jesus [of] Nazareth, King [of the] Jews." He also wrote it in Greek and Hebrew. Now the Hebrew version was also four words, and I don't have usable Hebrew fonts on my Mac, but if we take the initials of the four words (reading right to left, remember), we get that same tetragrammaton, YHWH. No wonder the Jewish leaders wanted Pilate to change it.

Nope.





www.hebrew4christians.com...

www.hebrew4christians.com...
www.hebrew4christians.com...

HanzHenry
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

The O.T. God is not who Christians believe. The Torah is the O.T., plain and simple.

And the Torah is BAAL worship.

maybe if Christians would see the deception. And the REASON for the need of a messenger in human form. To straighten out the deception.

And over time the messenger's myth has been intertwined once again with the Deceiver's.

And God sits back and does nothing to end the deception. And should he?
After all, he is the one who gave Satan the power to deceive the whole world. He must have known it would be used as it is being used.

Regards
DL

Blue_Jay33
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

2 points, first I don't believe in the trinity, second before Jesus came to the earth many sins where capital crimes under God's rules in other words it was the death penalty for immorality. But the ransom sacrifice took that away there would be no death penalty for anything anymore, it negates even the most serious sins such as a rape and murder. But there is usually social/political and cultural consequences for a proclaimed Christian if they were to do that anyways. The ransom is not an excuse to practice sin without consequence, as the bible says you reap what you sow. But the real answer to the OP is that now God could apply the ransom to the world of mankind whereas before he couldn't. Some don't understand the concept, but it stands.

There is only one account where Jesus anger flared in righteous indignation, when capitalism ran rampant at the temple even taking advantage of people. He wouldn't tolerate that.

In the future he will be under direct orders from his Father to take out unrighteous humans living on this earth and yes it will be a "genocide" against unrighteous people that refuse to listen to God. If Jesus followed orders to give up his life, he will follow orders to take lives.

edit on 5-1-2014 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)

LOL.

So you see God saying, --- Lets end barbaric human sacrifice by having one really big one.

You sound as retarded as your God with that idea.

Regards
DL

A shift in philosophy happened about the time of the Babylonian exile when the Jew's were exposed to the concept of an omnipresent deity as before this the temple in jerusalem was the holy place of israel were they could commune with god and like in the song the rivers of babylon (bony m being my fave version) they did not know how to worship or sing the lords song in a strange land but adopted that part of the babylonian deity belief, when they came back the division between the jews whom returned and the Samaritans whom still at that time worshipped the lord in the old way was complete and the new jewish philosophy from which our christian belief stems was in a god whom knew everything, was everywhere and could do anything, this was a paradign shift and for those of us whom believe all part of gods plan.
El was the high god of the canaanites and had a pantheon Baal was his leutenant were Ya was the god of israel (michael his leutenant) and they were actually at odd's not the same person though confusion reigned as did debate about that even in the ancient synagogues, the Jewish people actually spoke a number of languages over time from ancient hebrew which was the temple language to the newer Aramaic that was the day to day language of the time of christ and is still used as the church catachysm language of the Assyriac orthodox church in syria (Arguably the oldes continuous christian church dating back to the first century jewish christians whom were direct followers of christ).

reply to post by Greatest I am


Being omnipotent would make killing ones creation be as if the creation was only an ant farm.

By giving God human boundaries, it creates an awkward deity imo

Lazarus Short
The Being who greeted Moses in the backside of the desert, at the burning bush, stated His Name: YHWH. This Name, called the tetragrammaton, is usually rendered as "Yaweh" or "I Am That I Am." Now if we insert the very ancient pictorial meanings of the letters in their place, we get this: Behold, the Hand, Behold, the Nail. It could be none other than Jesus.

Now the second witness. When this same Jesus was crucified, Pilate (He was not the bad guy here, as he tried every political trick at his disposal to save Jesus.) placed a plaque over His head, stating "Jesus [of] Nazareth, King [of the] Jews." He also wrote it in Greek and Hebrew. Now the Hebrew version was also four words, and I don't have usable Hebrew fonts on my Mac, but if we take the initials of the four words (reading right to left, remember), we get that same tetragrammaton, YHWH. No wonder the Jewish leaders wanted Pilate to change it.

So there you have it folks, two witnesses to the vital link between God the Father, and God the Son - centuries apart too. No wonder that Jesus stated that the Father and He were One. "He who has seen Me, has seen the Father."

My own view is that the God of the OT (Jesus) was the way He was, because He had not walked a mile in our proverbial moccasins yet. As Jesus, the God of the NT, He was learning to appreciate the human condition. You might say He grokked us. Of course, He did all along, it was just a way of teaching us.

You can deal with it, or don't.

So the all knowing God did not know something and used genocide on us by mistake.

Quite the sin that don't you think?

If the wages of sin is death, was that why he had himself, Jesus, murdered?

If so, he would have had to stay dead and if not, it was not a sacrifice to atone for us then was it?

Regards
DL

theMediator
I always taught that the God Jesus spoke of is a universal God which seems to be neutral good while the Old Testament seems to speak about a powerful creature that would love to be idolized like a god.

More or less, yes, but that is not what the churches teach. They teach that Jesus will send the vast majority of us to hell and woe be to those who are not ready to idolize him.

Regards
DL

Wait until Christ come back at the end. He will separate all of us who are left between those who will be saved and those who will not. It may not be quite as messy as Noah's flood, but then again, there is no guarantee that there will be any more left than went on the ark who will know Him and be saved.

reply to post by Greatest I am


There is no guarantee of course what will bring about your salvation. It could be as simple as CS Lewis portrays it in The Last Battle. You look upon Him, know Him, and love Him and are saved -or- You look upon Him, know Him, and hate Him and pass to destruction.

LABTECH767
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

We were not there and even if we had been we do not know how we would have reacted, though god is the god of all spirits of the flesh as Moses called him he is also primarily the god of the soul for which the flesh was created and from where we get the phrase dust to dust as the body is dust and the soul is spirit indeed it is probably the very breath of life mentioned in genesis, At many time god seem's cruel but we are seeing it from a very small perspective like the tip of the iceberg, perhaps that age called violent was an age that would have led to the destruction of the soul and though he destroyed all flesh from off the face of the dry earth it makes no mention of destroying the breath of life, what is of god must return to god and what is of the earth must return to the earth.
It is one of the great struggles trying to come to terms with how this can be the same being but he engineered or forged our race and still doese though today may be like before the flood as prophesized.
It had to be on Gods terms as Whenever he lets it be on our terms it leads to spiralling disease of evil due to our own flawed nature, there was a time when many men whom wished to be like the levites in the old testament demanded of Moses that they could make offering to god but God destroyed them and there households and any one related to them as He must be obeyed not the hidden nature and power lust of ourselves, God accepted there offereing by ordering there brass incence burners be betean and used but he punished them for refusing to obey, it seems awfully unfair and he at times seems cruel and may even be so but we do not see what he does and only he can tell us and that is why we are so fortunate to have been born under Jesus so we can come to him for mercy.
The bible is also though hard to fathom a tool to test and teach and as you reach the new testament in your faith you also reach the newer state of spiritual being though lets be fair the bible is a hard read at times.
I believe god is good though he can seem cruel at time through our eye's with our morals based on his teachings remember, so compare his stern guidence to the people whom he was leading israel against with there human child sacrifice and immoral temple prostitutes, now what you are really comparing is the our nature to gods and our nature created those evil ways and things but he has been trying to show us a better way, that darkness of nature will always be in us so we need his stern guidence and leadership and not just now but maybe for ever.

God must be the epitome of good and evil and that is exactly the way the bible shows him.

If not, whose name would you place above Gods for any capability?

You also blame our human nature for what we are.

Who creates our human natures and if defective as you indicate, then remember what Einstein said.

To continue to do the same thing and expect a different result is a sign of insanity.

Sounds like your God is insane.

Regards
DL

Sinter Klaas
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Being omnipotent would make killing ones creation be as if the creation was only an ant farm.

By giving God human boundaries, it creates an awkward deity imo

Perhaps but not to me and apparently not the bible scribes either as they have God saying we think exactly as he does with his, they have become as God knowing good and evil.

Good and evil apply to almost everything you or God can think of.

Try to think of a few exceptions and see how hard it is to do.

Regards
DL

ketsuko
Wait until Christ come back at the end. He will separate all of us who are left between those who will be saved and those who will not. It may not be quite as messy as Noah's flood, but then again, there is no guarantee that there will be any more left than went on the ark who will know Him and be saved.

That is what is promised and you think that God is a winner when most of his creations end as garbage.

Only idiots would seek such a loser of a God.

Do look for at least a God who can be 50% on the mark as to miss the mark is a sin.

Look ma. I created 8 billion souls and a whole 12 ended good.
Go back to the drawing board son.

Regards
DL

ketsuko
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

There is no guarantee of course what will bring about your salvation. It could be as simple as CS Lewis portrays it in The Last Battle. You look upon Him, know Him, and love Him and are saved -or- You look upon Him, know Him, and hate Him and pass to destruction.

Love, like faith needs works and deeds to be true love.
When your genocidal son murderer is ready for reciprocity in love then I will be there.

Till then, he is not worthy of anything and what you think him worthy of you cannot show is from him. All you can do is share your delusions.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


I have discussed this with many people over the years, people have a philosophical disagreement with God.
Somehow they think their sense of justice is higher than God's.

So I use this illustration, let's say you built and own a large 30 story apartment, people move in and they start to abuse the place, stop paying rent, damage the building and ruin the peace of the paying tenants. How long before you evict them, how many complaints would it take from tenants that are actually paying rent, and are good tenants. Eventually any landlord has to take action to stop the problem, and if they don't listen after many repeated warnings he is left with no choice but to evict them, even if it means they will be homeless.

God owns the earth, for the sake of the good tenants, he is going to evict the bad ones and they will become homeless. (death and non-existence, hell WILL NOT be there new home)


Psalms 37: 10&11
 

Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more;
You will look at where they were,
And they will not be there.
11  But the meek will possess the earth,
And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

reply to post by Greatest I am


And you are too short-sighted. You cannot know for sure how many will or won't be there. You say that we are not to judge and that is true. Neither are you to judge which is what you are doing know. Only He knows how many are or have been saved. You certainly do not any more than I do.

Oops