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UFOs and Materialism Don't Mix

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posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 09:53 AM
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On November 4 2012, The Telegraph said that the field of ufology may be dead.

"For decades, they have been scanning the skies for signs of alien activity. But having failed to establish any evidence for the existence of extraterrestrial life, Britain’s UFO watchers are reaching the conclusion that the truth might not be out there after all. Enthusiasts admit that a continued failure to provide proof and a decline in the number of “flying saucer” sightings suggests that aliens do not exist after all and could mean the end of “Ufology” — the study of UFOs — within the next decade."

That's exactly what ufology needs. It needs to die so that it can be reborn. It needs to undergo a death-and-resurrection. The death of ufology as a materialist "scientific" endeavor is the liberation of an ancient, persistent, "mystical", anomalous human experience. Eventually, that will lead to the birth of a more fruitful ufology.

In the introduction to Daimonic Reality, Patrick Harpur divides ufology into two camps. The first camp is people who regard UFOs as "extraterrestrial spacecraft inhabited by aliens from another planet. This is such a popular hypothesis, especially in the USA, that the acronym UFO (Unidentified Flying Object) has come, quite erroneously, to mean a flying saucer from outer space."

The second camp is people "who entertain a wide variety of theories about the nature of UFOs. An open-minded, often ingenious group, their chief aim, it seems, is to persuade scientists to take them and their subject seriously."

To put it bluntly, ufology has been infected by the poison of materialism, so it's dying. Someday it will be reborn in a deeper and wider form which doesn't sweep the "spiritual" / "paranormal" / "shamanic" / "consciousness" component of UFOs under the rug just because it doesn't fit into the obsolete materialist paradigm of thought. It will be reborn in the second camp where it belongs.

There are deep similarities between the UFO phenomenon and psi in general and PK in particular, and "lights in the sky" is a very ancient phenomenon, and it was only recently that it was ascribed an ET meaning. Comparisons between psychic phenomena and the UFO experience are worth studying. Mainstream science can't do that without parapsychology.

And as I'm sure you'll agree, the relationship between materialists and parapsychology is rocky at best. So, there are pieces of the UFO puzzle that the first camp isn't prepared to accept. Only the second camp can handle all the pieces. That's part of the reason why ufology needs to undergo a death-and-resurrection.


edit on 5-1-2014 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 10:11 AM
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Personally i think that the "spiritual" / "paranormal" / "shamanic" / "consciousness" components of Ufology are nothing but distractions from the hard facts that are needed to get the subject taken seriously by the scientific community. If no one can produce hard facts then so be it but the "spiritual" / "paranormal" / "shamanic" / "consciousness" components are simply feel good medicines for the eternally hopeful that just serve to muddy the waters.


edit on 5-1-2014 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 10:19 AM
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PhoenixOD
Personally i think that the "spiritual" / "paranormal" / "shamanic" / "consciousness" component of Ufology are nothing but distractions from the hard facts that are needed to get the subject taken seriously by the scientific community. If no one can produce hard facts then so be it but the "spiritual" / "paranormal" / "shamanic" / "consciousness" components are simply feel good medicines for the eternally hopeful that just serve to muddy the waters.


edit on 5-1-2014 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)


Thanks for the comment. As someone who has had both UFO and psychic experiences I can assure you that our inherent psychic ability is no distraction. It's part of the UFO experience. As a result I've developed quite an interest in parapsychology and I can assure you there is a large body of evidence.

The evidence isn't the problem. By the standards of any other science, parapsychology has produced more than enough evidence of psi. The problem is the taboo against parapsychology in science, and the double-standards it leads to.





edit on 5-1-2014 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 10:32 AM
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BlueMule
The Telegraph said that the field of ufology may be dead.



And yet, reported by the same newspaper;

An airline pilot has reported a near miss in which a “rugby ball”-shaped UFO passed within a few feet of his passenger jet while flying near Heathrow Airport. The captain told the aviation authorities who have investigated the incident that he was certain the object was going to crash into his aircraft and ducked as it headed towards him. The investigation has been unable to establish any earthly identity for the mysterious craft, which left the aircrew with no time to take evasive action.


This is in another thread today.
edit on 5-1-2014 by EA006 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by EA006
 


What's your point?



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 12:24 PM
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Good morning BlueMule,

I appreciate your OP and your ideas are pushing forward on some stuff I have been wanting to try and articulate.

And that's the problem: neither side of the fence is easy to dress up in words, and in fact both subjects are notorious for delivering a mighty smack-down to anyone that dares try and describe them in a way that makes sense to others. That is likely because where you want to go with words is close to something that we would find useful (sometimes referred to as "The Truth") and we can't have that, now can we?

I haz chores then I will come back and wrestle with it with you.


edit on 5-1-2014 by Bybyots because: . : .



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by PhoenixOD
 


I agree with you. I will admit to the fact that we don't know what they are (as far as we're told anyway), so the possibility of UFO's being "not from this realm" may be true. However, I have serious doubts about that. I believe they're more technical, i.e. flesh and blood. And if we're going to try to highlight UFO research in a serious manner we need to step away from "way out there" beliefs within the field.

What's more believable? That UFO's are technological beings from another planet? Or that they're some form of spiritual beings?



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 12:52 PM
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BlueMuleAs someone who has had both UFO and psychic experiences I can assure you that our inherent psychic ability is no distraction.




The Foundation is committed to providing reliable information about paranormal claims. It both supports and conducts original research into such claims.

At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The JREF does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions under which a test will take place. All tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test. Preliminary tests are usually conducted by associates of the JREF at the site where the applicant lives. Upon success in the preliminary testing process, the "applicant" becomes a "claimant."

To date, no one has passed the preliminary tests.


source: James Randi Educational Foundation

And yet all we have are tumbleweeds.

Para-anything relies on using meaningless phrases to add authenticity to it's claims, such as "frequency vibrations in different dimensions or planes of existence", and other such woo. It's absurd junk thought up by new-agers.

If you want me to change my mind on the subject it's easy. Just provide one iota of evidence.

As such, I agree with 'PhoenixOD' - new-agers have destroyed any chance of a proper, wide reaching, multidisciplinary peer reviewed investigation into the subject.



edit on 5-1-2014 by MarsIsRed because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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BlueMule
That's exactly what ufology needs. It needs to die so that it can be reborn. It needs to undergo a death-and-resurrection. The death of ufology as a materialist "scientific" endeavor is the liberation of an ancient, persistent, "mystical", anomalous human experience. Eventually, that will lead to the birth of a more fruitful ufology.

edit on 5-1-2014 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)


That's an odd position to take fromt the report you gave.

If anything their null result indicates they need to be MORE scientific not less. UFOlogy has lacked rigorous science for decades when compared to other fringe sciences which have come to credibility over time even though they too have null results.

I have some ideas on this and may do a post on it in the very near future comparing UFOlogy to another field which struggled for credibility in the 60s and now which is highly credible because of the way that it conducted itself despite having null results.
edit on 5-1-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by Bybyots
 


Looking forward to it!

2nd


edit on 5-1-2014 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 01:38 PM
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MarsIsRed
If you want me to change my mind on the subject it's easy. Just provide one iota of evidence.


What, that's it? One iota and you'll change your mind? That's easy. Why didn't you just say so in the first place? :p

www.deanradin.com...

I'm looking forward to hearing from you when you've changed your mind.

PS - the MDC is merely a publicity stunt


edit on 5-1-2014 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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Ingo Swann in his book "Penetration" made quite the case for science being complicit in the divide and conquer
agenda seen particularly in ufology.

www.ivantic.net...
around pg 108+

Since most casual contactee's/witnesses don't generally carry high tech equipment needed to provide hard data, looking at this from a "Hard Science" or bust attitude is ridiculous since the type of info you need is most likely classified by the military.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 01:42 PM
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JadeStar

BlueMule
That's exactly what ufology needs. It needs to die so that it can be reborn. It needs to undergo a death-and-resurrection. The death of ufology as a materialist "scientific" endeavor is the liberation of an ancient, persistent, "mystical", anomalous human experience. Eventually, that will lead to the birth of a more fruitful ufology.

edit on 5-1-2014 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)


That's an odd position to take fromt he report you gave.

If anything their null result indicates they need to be MORE scientific not less.


More science, less scientism.


UFOlogy has lacked rigorous science for decades when compared to other fringe sciences which have come to credibility over time even though they too have null results.


What other fringe sciences?



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 01:43 PM
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What UFOlogy requires is for non-scientists to stop saying what UFOlogy needs.




posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 01:48 PM
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AliceBleachWhite

What UFOlogy requires is for non-scientists to stop saying what UFOlogy needs.





What Ufology requires is less bigotry, less elitism, and less materialistic presuppositions.




posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by Auricom
 


As far as to which is the more believable regarding a dualistic approach to UFOs, i.e. nuts n' bolts or mind fuzzies, the idea that real "high tech" might include materialistic technology that deals with aspects of the mind, or further, that future tech might all be mind oriented.

I believe it isn't an 'either, or' deal with UFOs. Some other intelligence from some other place with a few millennia head start might have better knowledge about the area where materialism and mysticism merge.

It sure seems that way from the mounds of evidence to me, anyway.

Edit: and AliceBleachWhite... heh, that winky emoticon can come across as smug to the insecure fledgling rational mystics out here. I can see why you get some back hair raised, but I sure respect your well grounded views, obvious brightness and vast knowledge base... but you might rethink the winky guy, is all.


edit on 1/5/2014 by Baddogma because: winky thought



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 02:17 PM
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Auricom
I believe they're more technical, i.e. flesh and blood.


Well most people do. That's the way UFOs seem when viewed through our modern myth; our science narrative. People from the first camp of ufology need to step back from that narrative and start over. It's clouding their judgment.

Science and reason can only go so far in understanding UFOs. Science is limited. When a truth-seeker has gotten as far as science and reason can take him, he has a choice to make. He must filter out data that "doesn't fit" inside the box, or he must think outside the box.

Have you read Trickster and the Paranormal by Hansen?


Hansen maintains that the extraterrestrial hypothesis in actuality is a misnomer and that the hypothesis is really more of a “foundational premise”. It is essentially an assumption from which ideas are derived accordingly. He says: “US ufologists have conceptualised the phenomena as ET ‘flesh and blood’ humanoids travelling in ‘nuts and bolts’ flying saucers, thereby rationalising them, keeping them in the normal world and apart from the supernatural.” Hansen also argues that researchers who avoid or attempt to downplay “high strangeness” cases, where many classes of phenomena seem to blend, are missing vital clues and thus doing a grave disservice to ufology.


magonia.haaan.com...


edit on 5-1-2014 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 02:23 PM
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BlueMule
reply to post by EA006
 


What's your point?


Maybe his point is that Commercial aircraft don't have near miss incidents with philosophy.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 02:27 PM
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badgerprints

BlueMule
reply to post by EA006
 


What's your point?


Maybe his point is that Commercial aircraft don't have near miss incidents with philosophy.


Hi. That's a straw-man you have there.


MISHLOVE: One of the things that Jung pointed out in his book is that we must pay attention to the research that Dr. J.B. Rhine was doing at that time at Duke University in ESP and psychokinesis, and that even if UFOs had a physical reality, could be photographed or could be weighed and measured, that they still might in some manner be projections of the human mind.

McKENNA: Oh yes, this is an important point to make, which the flying saucer people are forever misunderstanding, and that is that saying the flying saucer is a psychic object does not mean it is not a physical object. Jung in Mysterium Coniunctionis is at great pains to say that the realm of the psychic and the realm of the physical meet in a strange kind of never-never land that we have yet to create the intellectual tools to explore. This is where the mystery of synchronicity is going to come to rest, the mystery of all kinds of paranormal activity on the part of human beings, and the mystery of the flying saucer.


www.intuition.org...


edit on 5-1-2014 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 02:27 PM
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Caver78
Ingo Swann in his book "Penetration" made quite the case for science being complicit in the divide and conquer
agenda seen particularly in ufology.

www.ivantic.net...
around pg 108+

Since most casual contactee's/witnesses don't generally carry high tech equipment needed to provide hard data, looking at this from a "Hard Science" or bust attitude is ridiculous since the type of info you need is most likely classified by the military.

en.wikipedia.org...



That's what I call a cop-out.

Things like Project Hessdalen exist. There are ways to apply science to the problem without throwing up our hands and saying, "why bother, the military probably has all the info and its classified."

I'd be careful with anything Ingo Swann presents you with.
edit on 5-1-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)




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