NHS a National Treasure?

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posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


The person who is the expert on whether the orthopaedic surgeon did a good job of fixing his leg - is the patient.
The person who says they were treated well or not - is the patient.
They have the end say on whether the service was good or otherwise.
Not the nurse.




posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by HelenConway
 





The person who is the expert on whether the orthopaedic surgeon did a good job of fixing his leg - is the patient.
The person who says they were treated well or not - is the patient.
They have the end say on whether the service was good or otherwise.
Not the nurse


I dont think you have used the best example there but lets not get into that.

what i will say is that, yes the patient is the one who has the end say on if they received a good quality of service or not that is why we audit patient experience to judge how good they perceive the quality of care and encourage feed back.

However in the context of discussing clinical governance and the pressures that we are under that might dictate why we do what we do the patient is not so much of a expert on that side of things.

But yes i would agree with you that ultimately it is the patient's who judge how good or bad their quality of care was but i was never doubting that.



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 12:40 AM
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boymonkey74
reply to post by Shuftystick
 


Mistakes happen we are only human, you are forgetting all the success stories and lives saved by the NHS.
Just reading this thread many here owe a great deal to the NHS but you look at the tiny tiny amount of mistakes that happen.
Very rude of you also saying that about coin, he/she is a dedicated individual doing a thankless job as many tens of thousands of other people doing our type of work not because of money but because we care for others.
I hope you never get ill and have to use the NHS because this thread will shame you.


This is exactly it boymonkey! When was the last time you heard an NHS success story in the papers? When was the last time you ever heard good feedback from the NHS? I can't remember hearing of any outside of work. On a daily basis NHS employees perform nothing short of miracles with the resources they have, too many unsung heros and success story's that the media aren't interested in, why? Because bashing the NHS makes ££££££££££

It is impossible to deny that mistakes have been made and complaints happen, of course they do! The same as every other institution. If 10,000 people complain about the NHS a year, and the NHS takes in 1 million patients a year (just pulling random numbers here) then that's still a 99% success rate. However, when the media pull out all the stops to ONLY report on the mistakes of the NHS suddenly everyone thinks the NHS is #$*!. I have sat on the phone for up to half an hour talking, at least five people out of killing themselves on the other end of a phone, I remember sitting and chatting to a woman who was raped and at the end she was so happy that I talked to her she was in tears. Will I ever get a front page new article? Will I f**k. TOSOTC probably has more amazing stories,. of children who's lives he's saved and parents who have sung his praises, will he get any recognition? God no, he gets misinformed members of the public spitting at his feet.

Stop believing the media, they like to show the worst side of everything, and your capitalist leaders want to destroy the NHS, stop listening to them too. No doubt NHS needs a shape up, but seriously, NHS employee's work long and terrible hours, the worst out of any profession in this country, they put up with drunks, perverts and criminals, just to make sure you can get seen for free.



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 01:49 AM
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Never mind the elephant in the corner of the room or none so blind as those that cannot or will not see, what about...

Yesterday's MAIL ON SUNDAY
A 2 page spread headlined "Drunks in high heels, idiocy of 111 operators: what it's REALLY like to be a doctor in A&E"

You people really make me want to puke! What are you going to explain this FACT away with this time, my not having a clue (not true), media bias, failure to publicise the good work, aliens, the price of bacon?

Can't wait to see the crap that gets spouted to knock this particular fact based post...

Better not look at the biased reporting of stroke victims having to wait 24 hrs for vital scans as reported on p.33 though, that would be biased media reporting again!

Then again a little research around the phrase PHYSICIAN HEAL THYSELF via Wiki. gives this;

The moral of the proverb is counsel to attend to one's own defects rather than criticizing defects in others,[2] a sentiment also expressed in the Discourse on judgmentalism.

The New Testament text is as follows:
1 JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
—Matthew 7:1-5 KJV (Matthew 7:1-5 other versions)


edit on 6-1-2014 by Shuftystick because: Omission of further fact
edit on 6-1-2014 by Shuftystick because: Further Wikipaedia brilliance



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 03:32 AM
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Shuftystick
Yesterday's MAIL ON SUNDAY
A 2 page spread headlined "Drunks in high heels, idiocy of 111 operators: what it's REALLY like to be a doctor in A&E"


Wait wait wait... because I work in the NHS I'm not allowed to go out for a drink?? So not only do I have to work in a 24 hours call centre, work all holidays (including Christmas and new years day) but on the days off I get, I have to sit indoors and read a book?? Get a grip on reality, everyone goes out for a drink and a laugh. My mum is a lawyer, I remember a time when I had to support her because she'd got wasted, does that make her a bad lawyer? NO! She's just started a successful law firm in her own name.

So far all the evidence you have presented has been from the news and the daily mail of all of them... The same daily mail who gets shown up for lying on a daily basis and blasting things out of perspective, the same daily mail which has 90% of it's articles about celebs, diets and fashion to rake in cash from people who can't fathom real news, it's a magazine in the guise of a newspaper, show me some proper research my friend.
edit on 6-1-2014 by iRoyalty because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 03:38 AM
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reply to post by iRoyalty
 


I know right

We in the care industry get drunk a lot, we tend to smoke more (nurses support workers etc) and party hard..why? because we need a release, we give 110%, work 14 hour shifts, get talked down to by the general public and other health professionals so yes we go crazy when we get a little time off.
Oh and OP trust me the way to turn others away from even reading your posts is to put scripture in it.
You started the thread quite nice and then have insulted many who do a job frankly I know you could not do.
edit on 6-1-2014 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 03:52 AM
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Sorry, i vote national disgrace. No longer fit for purpose and needs to be completely started again from scratch. Reasons, killed 1 of each from both sets of grandparents, killed father, tried to kill wife, brother in law and step father.

No longer what was envisioned at it's birth, its supposed to be a National health service and not an International health service, stop serving people who have no claim to it, it could improve, it wont when people who have no right are still treated.

Tick box culture that doesn't work as highlighted by the results above.



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 04:30 AM
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reply to post by FFS4000
 


I am sorry to hear that, that's terrible.

The NHS 100% needs a shape up I have never disputed that, I would like to see more funding and more incentives for medical professionals, including foreign ones (my GP is Indian and he is a champion!).

Whilst I'm ignorant of the circumstances, was it because of a medical misconduct? If so, I'm guessing you reported it, if not you need to. People think that because we work at the NHS that we should bat off complaints and that we will try and defend them, not true. If I see someone f**king about, I will openly report them, healthcare isn't a joke. How else can something improve if they don't see a mistake? One of my favourite sayings is:

"An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it" - JFK

You would be surprised how quickly errors like the are corrected here, we had a guy on his first ever call, he got the the first safety question "Is the patient breathing and concious" he took the fact that she has a cough and slight breathlessness after bouts of coughing as not breathing, sent an ambulance and then got sacked. Of course though, that will make the headlines, not the 1499 other people working for the service who spent that whole day helping people.
edit on 6-1-2014 by iRoyalty because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 07:07 AM
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Scriptures posted due to the relevance of the saying Physician heal thyself!
I RESEARCHED its origins to ensure it was an apt quote for the circumstances of the reactions to this thread.

And when it comes to switching people off there are far worse things that I see on ATS that would cause me as a non church goer to switch off, especially the soap box heroes and keyboard warriors that are unable to accept the obvious.

NHS is a National disgrace, you can't hide it and the actions of what I will accept are the minority, tar everyone with the same brush - that's basic human nature in an era of reality based media shows that is more concerned with materialistic life than the reality of a selfish society.

For those that obviously vehemently disagree with my stated opinions as supported by facts I will challenge you and make you a promise...
I have just returned from the library with 2 books in tow...
Compassion, Caring and Communication (skills for Nursing Practice) 2013, and;
Nursing in Context: Policy, Practice, Profession 2012 2nd edition
I will read these books and return at a later stage this month, with a new post, within that post I will firstly state whether my view of the OP has changed or not, and why.
Until then I will make no further contribution to this thread.

Your challenge is to hold back on the brickbats until that time, not that I don't have a thick skin mind you. However this gives an option to continue what is obviously a concern to many I.e the NHS.

In anticipation of your cooperation thank you.

See you all later this month.



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by Shuftystick
 


I am not going to spend to long addressing your first post on this thread other than to say the Daily Mail, Wiki and the Bible are probably the three least reliable and respected sources I can think of, it pretty much rubbishes your entire first post and i dont really know what you were getting at.

but lets look at your second (which really made me laugh)




NHS is a National disgrace, you can't hide it and the actions of what I will accept are the minority, tar everyone with the same brush - that's basic human nature in an era of reality based media shows that is more concerned with materialistic life than the reality of a selfish society.


So what do you mean by this, you said before that good staff where a minority are you now saying they are the majority and that bad staff are the small minority?

Also no its not ok ever to tar everyone with the same brush as you seem to be suggesting thats human nature, its just human stupidity to make such a claim. Shipman was a NHS employee who killed his patients that does not mean that it is "human nature" to tar the 1.7 million employees should all be with the same brush and brand us all as murderers.

You keep repeating this line "The NHS is a National disgrace" but I think you are confusing your opinion with facts or representing the majority of people in the UK. In your opinion the NHS is a National Disgrace, but that does not make it a fact or a view shared by a majority in the UK.



For those that obviously vehemently disagree with my stated opinions as supported by facts I will challenge you and make you a promise... I have just returned from the library with 2 books in tow... Compassion, Caring and Communication (skills for Nursing Practice) 2013, and; Nursing in Context: Policy, Practice, Profession 2012 2nd edition I will read these books and return at a later stage this month, with a new post, within that post I will firstly state whether my view of the OP has changed or not, and why. Until then I will make no further contribution to this thread.


But this...

this is what made me laugh.

you honestly think you can read two books and then you can claim to have some kind of educated view on the running of the NHS and tell experienced nurses where they are going wrong. What a utter joke, I have a degree in Nursing Science with distinction and a good few years under my belt working in acute care along with a whole host of qualifications i have acquired over my years in the job. Yet you think that by going to the public library and getting out a couple of books (the first one by the way will be useless to you) that you can then come back and tell us all how wrong we are.

What a joke.

I suppose next time you go on holiday you will play flight-Sim for a few hours then demand that you fly the plane because you are better than the pilot.



Your challenge is to hold back on the brickbats until that time, not that I don't have a thick skin mind you. However this gives an option to continue what is obviously a concern to many I.e the NHS.


No this is is not a "challenge" its a attempt to shut us up because you know that you are on the ropes, most people who work in the NHS do a very good job. If you had a bad experience that is regrettable however that does not give you the right to tell us we are all crap at our jobs and how we should be doing them because you got a couple of books out of the library.



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by Shuftystick
 


Tell you what, instead, how about you get a job in NHS, as a nursing assistant or even just my job at the 111, work at it for a month and THEN come back and tell us what you think?

You said you've provided us with evidence, I see none outside of the daily mail and you continually dispute with two NHS employees who work in frontline call handling and a frontline ED nurse (are you a nurse TOSOTC?), yet you refuse to take on our side of things.

If you just wanted to bash the NHS rather than receive an intellectual debate where you can study both sides of the argument, then next time post your thoughts on Facebook, because last time I checked we are here to Deny Ignorance, ignorance can not be denied until you stop ignoring our side of the argument.

We've successfully batted back everything you've said and each time you try and come up with something new, I've met a level ground with you, I've constantly stated that the NHS needs some help and even gone as far to say that any unprofessional work needs to be reported and stamped out, however you can not sit there and tell me every NHS employee is a disgrace to the nation , people who do amazing work on a daily basis and then they get to deal with people like you, I don't think they are the disgrace in this situation.
edit on 6-1-2014 by iRoyalty because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 10:04 AM
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I thought as much, challenge denied!

You prove by your own venomous posting that you can neither see the wood for the trees or engage in intelligent debate.

Not once have I said or intimated that everyone in the NHS is as bad as those having done the bad deeds - fact.

The NHS has a tattered reputation - fact.

The NHS is a National disgrace, plain as day - fact.

The NHS can be turned around, as I have stated - fact.

The Keogh Review was neither a figment of my imagination nor an ill-conceived report, it reported facts.

For the RCN, Dr Peter Carter stated;
"Of course, where there are examples of individuals delivering poor care, these must be challenged and people must be held to account, but today’s review paints a picture of endemic poor leadership, chronic understaffing and a lack of transparency,”

Anne Clywd reported facts.

The Francis Report was based on facts, here are just a few of those facts;

Not a single official has been disciplined over the worst-ever NHS hospital scandal.

Up to 1,200 people lost their lives needlessly because Mid-Staffordshire NHS Trust put government targets and cost-cutting ahead of patient care.

None of the doctors, nurses and managers who failed them has suffered any formal sanction.

The independent inquiry headed by Robert Francis QC found the safety of sick and dying patients was 'routinely neglected'. Others were subjected to ' inhumane treatment', 'bullying', 'abuse' and 'rudeness'.

• Patients were left unwashed in their own filth for up to a month as nurses ignored their requests to use the toilet or change their sheets;

• Four members of one family. including a new-born baby girl. died within 18 months after of blunders at the hospital;

• Medics discharged patients hastily out of fear they risked being sacked for delaying.
(So my experience of a GP categorised unsafe discharge was neither unique nor confined to a singleton NHS Trust?).

• Wards were left filthy with blood, discarded needles and used dressings while bullying managers made whistleblowers too frightened to come forward.
(I have experienced this in more than one hospital in different NHS Trusts)

The Francis probe was launched following a Healthcare Commission report on Stafford Hospital in March last year. It found that deaths at the hospital were 27 to 45 per cent higher than normal, meaning some 400 to 1,200 people died unnecessarily between 2005 and 2008.

The Francis report said staff numbers were allowed to fall 'dangerously low', causing nurses to neglect the most basic care. It said: 'Requests for assistance to use a bedpan or to get to and from the toilet were not responded to.

'Some families were left to take soiled sheets home to wash or to change beds when this should have been undertaken by the hospital and its staff.' Food and drink were left out of reach, forcing patients to drink water from flower vases.

While many staff did their best, Mr Francis said, others showed a disturbing lack of compassion to patients.

He added: 'I heard so many stories of shocking care. These patients were not simply numbers. They were husbands, wives, sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, grandparents. They were people who entered Stafford Hospital and rightly expected to be well cared for and treated.'

Are you lot going to deny these facts and continue to ignore what led to the OP and subsequent fact based postings. Will you be accusing me of fantasy or spinning lies next.

My apologies to ATS and genuine participants in intelligent debate and the denial of ignorance for quoting at length from the Francis Review, but in order to prove, beyond doubt rather than just on a balance of probability it was necessary.
It is also a pity that the challenge made was denied.
Phew!
Anyone else out there have any proof or denials they wish to add?
edit on 6-1-2014 by Shuftystick because: Spelling, re spacing for the sake of clarity and just because I felt like it



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by Shuftystick
 





Not once have I said or intimated that everyone in the NHS is as bad as those having done the bad deeds - fact.


That is a lie.

On page one you said that good staff where the "minority" the implication therefore is that the rest of the staff who make up the majority must be "bad" staff. So you might not be talking about all of us but you are implying most of us are "bad" at our jobs. As a NHS worker i dont appreciate that.

You have also seemed to paint us all with the same brush using examples like Shipman and ignore the good work that most of the 1.7 million of us do and the excellent treatment that most of our 15 million plus patients a year receive.



The NHS has a tattered reputation - fact.


No that is not a "fact" the NHS is a world leader in may area's of health care our staff have been sent over sea's to train other countries staff and they send their staff over hear to train. The NHS has a very strong international reputation. Yes it does have its problems but it still maintains a very good reputation.



The NHS is a National disgrace, plain so day - fact.


No.

In your opinion the NHS is a "national disgrace"

but that is not a fact unless you can prove it.

also...

You keep looking at cases in isolation, you bring up mid-staffodshire case yet ignore that is one trust (one hospital really) out of close to 100 trusts in England alone most of who do a amazing job.

Another one you keep talking about is the Keogh review, that report was made by looking at 14 hospitals out of the over 350 in the NHS and even at that it did highlight that it found plenty of cases of good care. These type of reports are supposed to be critical of the NHS so we can improve, so when i report highlights potential problems with say patient communication then steps can be taken to improve communication. You clearly dont understand these reports or their function outside of the Daily Mail, they do not highlight the NHS as a national disgrace but rather point out where improvements have to be made. It is very unfortunate that for economic and political reasons those improvements cannot always be made but that is not the blame of the staff nurse on the ward who has been working a 12 day stretch.

Yes there are bad apples but when you have such a huge workforce that is inevitable most patients have a good experience sometimes mistakes are made or even patients are subjected to intentional harm.

That does not however give you the right to sit about tell me that me and my colleagues are doing our jobs or are a "national disgrace" as you put it.

PS:

you have also stated that:



None of the doctors, nurses and managers who failed them has suffered any formal sanction.


That is not true I know that a couple of nurses who lost their jobs over what went on in that hospital and quit rightly to

but again if you know what you were talking about you would not be making these kind of errors now.
edit on 6-1-2014 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)
edit on 6-1-2014 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by Shuftystick
 





Yesterday's MAIL ON SUNDAY


The mail on Sunday as a reliable source, I've posted more stuff from the mail on here as jokes than I can count.




You people really make me want to puke! What are you going to explain this FACT away with this time, my not having a clue (not true), media bias, failure to publicise the good work, aliens, the price of bacon?


Manners and decorum please this is ATS not some drunken argument in a pub.

Just saying

Cody



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


If you are continually going to ignore the truth and accuse me of various things please ensure that YOU get YOUR FACTS right. And don't accuse me of lying either, it's not nice and attracts the attention of the moderators as being ill mannered posting!!!

I copy from p.1 for your perusal what was writ!

"There are still a few true angels left in the NHS system but they are few and far between. They are completely outnumbered by poor managers and too many administrators."

This somewhat negates your second contention within which you fail, again to understand what was intimated wrt human nature and society in this era. Also, I have never suggested that that anyone in the NHS was a Shipman.

Also wrt to my library visit, this is the paragraph;

For those that obviously vehemently disagree with my stated opinions as supported by facts I will challenge you and make you a promise...
I have just returned from the library with 2 books in tow...
Compassion, Caring and Communication (skills for Nursing Practice) 2013, and;
Nursing in Context: Policy, Practice, Profession 2012 2nd edition
I will read these books and return at a later stage this month, with a new post, within that post I will firstly state whether my view of the OP has changed or not, and why.
Until then I will make no further contribution to this thread.

So, once again, if you are going to accuse me of becoming an expert after reading 2 books please get your facts right and at least try to be accurate!

As for the remainder of your diatribe, I can't be bothered to point out much more than the fact that what I have reported is not in isolation and please don't insult my intelligence or that of ATS members by insisting the reports just point out where improvements have to be made. These reports came about as a result of the disgusting treatment and death of many people who were patients within the NHS. Such a crass and arrogant attitude pervades your postings on here.

Your final point about nurses quitting was neither a result of me reading the Daily Mail or making an error, it was a direct quote from the report author.

I'm not sure where the continued denial of so many deaths and serious shortcomings in the basics of compassion and care will lead this particular post. I am content to continue proving you wrong, and to use facts based on proven evidence or expert review authorship or even the likes of RCN summary but you discount even this.

Anyway, to summarise, neither accuse me of lying or constantly misquote me, next time it occurs I will complain to the moderators via alert as you are in danger of riding roughshod over ATS T&C, so keep it clean and tidy please for the benefit of all. Note I have only complained of you accusing me of lying or misquoting me, Nowt else.
There We Are Then!




posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by cody599
 


My apologies for the use of the word puke but I gave this some thought before using it as I felt the use of the word sick in the context of feelings towards people posting views about the NHS would have been inappropriate or even cynical.
Perhaps I should have said queasy instead, but then where would the impact have been?



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by Shuftystick
 


Thank you for your consideration


I'm afraid I'm still old school ATS, 9 years this month. I just remember when it wasn't a slagging match but informed debate.

Still we must adjust or die I guess

Cody



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by Shuftystick
 


I think you really need to take a step back and a few deep breaths you are getting a little over excited about a exchange of views regarding the NHS.

lets start where we agree.

We can both agree that the NHS is not perfect, that improvements are required and that our current political economy is not going to allow these changes.

Now where we disagree lets start where you say I am accusing you of lying.

Now on this page you have said that you never said most staff where bad or words to that effect however i would direct you to what you said on page one:



As I have said, there are good 'uns in the general system! but they are in the minority.


You said that not me, they are your words, I am not misquoting you, as a Nurse those words, that line annoyed me.

it annoyed me because you are implying that good staff in the NHS are a minority and therefore the implies that the majority of us are "bad" staff. So yeah you are basically saying with this one line that me and my co-workers are not fit to be doing the job.

Now if it is the case that you did not mean to say that or that you now realize you were mistaken in this above quote then just admit to being wrong when you said good staff where a minority.



Also, I have never suggested that that anyone in the NHS was a Shipman.


in that case why bring him up to demonstrate that the NHS is a "disgrace" he was arrested in 1998 thats what 16 year's ago. you are bringing up a case that was 16 years ago as a example of how the NHS is a disgrace in 2014.

So moving on....



don't insult my intelligence or that of ATS members by insisting the reports just point out where improvements have to be made.


That is the whole point of these type of reports they exist to highlight areas where improvements need to be made so of course they are going to focus on the negative. It is only by highlighting the negative that they can make recommendations on how to fix it, you will note as well that they often make statements to the effect of "this works so we recommend that the trust maintain this policy". But on the whole these reports are commissioned to highlight areas where improvements could and should be made.

It is not insulting to anyone's intelligence i am just pointing out a simple fact.




Your final point about nurses quitting was neither a result of me reading the Daily Mail or making an error, it was a direct quote from the report author.


Well then its wrong or out of date because I know that at least 2 staff nurses lost their jobs over Mid-Staff and I read about another 8 who were awaiting a hearing (i dont know the outcome)



I'm not sure where the continued denial of so many deaths and serious shortcomings in the basics of compassion and care will lead this particular post. I am content to continue proving you wrong, and to use facts based on proven evidence or expert review authorship or even the likes of RCN summary but you discount even this.


You are not proving anyone wrong.

All you have really done is state a opinion (NOT A FACT) that the NHS is a disgrace, now as a individual who works for this organization I have been telling you why i disagree with what you have to say and have been sticking up for my co-workers.

Yet you seem to be trying to voice your opinion like it is a fact.



will complain to the moderators via alert as you are in danger of riding roughshod over ATS T&C, so keep it clean and tidy please for the benefit of all. Note I have only complained of you accusing me of lying or misquoting me, Nowt else.


Complain all you want, but I am not doing anything against the T&C, I am keeping it quite clean I have not been issuing insults all i am doing again, is sticking up for my profession and trying to inform you as to why in my view you are grossly mistaken in your understanding of the NHS.



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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Sorry pal, just don't accept your viewpoint.

Will agree as to the posting statement about minority being good, still stand by it and don't really care whether you agree with it or not.

The various reports etc were all undertaken because of the state of care, or absence of it, within the NHS. At the risk of causing nausea by repetition, the reports were based on facts, people died and/or suffered ill treatment whilst under the care and responsibility of nursing staff, whatever their grade or area of work. The harrowing facts of people being left in soiled beds or unable to get off the toilet, the state of the wards - not just the floors, but the beds, the furniture, the fittings and even the equipment are all factual. I followed a consultant passing from a bedside out through the door wards who did not even bother to cleanse his hands, my tut and obvious concern was met with an arrogant disdain. The ward had 3 or 4 side bed units under full c.diff control or whatever mask and gown requirements are called.

The many thousands, if not hundreds of thousands who have suffered under the care of the NHS deserve better. One death by neglect or otherwise is one too many and no amount of hand wringing excuses by you or anyone else will change that fact.

Yes, it is a statistical fact that with so many patients, customers, users and a users of the NHS services, some will die as a result of what are criminal acts or omissions. I do not disagree with you on this point. It does not however excuse that death or mistreatment or anguish so caused, that is a naive and somewhat cynical position for a professional in a patient centric environment to espouse.

I am sure that any breach of standards, care or criminal acts that you may have witnessed during your career were reported and followed up by you resiliently and to good effect. Your support of your colleagues is acknowledged here by me.

That said, the original OP, and it's reasons followed by a host of established facts remain.

The NHS is not currently a National Treasure, it should be, and it should be a World Class Leader and Champion for Care & Compassion in nursing. If it can be effectively managed and the use of taxpayers resources made more efficient it will be progressing along that journey. At the moment, no amount of platitudes or political claptrap will change its current image in the eyes of many.

All the examples and facts as reported are truthful. I will read both the books I obtained from the library, and promise not to consider myself an expert when I have done so.

It is a great pity that so few people affected by the NHS have posted on here, those that have have told their own stories, which you have selectively ignored. And no, I have never worked in casualty or a third world hospital. I have however dealt with more than my share of gore and accident whether that be shipboard or roadside or elsewhere, and whilst that by no means makes me an expert in patient care and compassion has given me a reasonable insight into the front end of what ends up in casualty and hopefully alive on a ward and how vulnerable those patients feel.

Keep having a pop at me as long as you wish, you won't change my viewpoint nor the facts of the case. I am content with my presentation of facts, Please feel free to continue your diatribe, it might become relevant when or if the NHS gets back to where it should be...



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by Shuftystick
 





Will agree as to the posting statement about minority being good, still stand by it and don't really care whether you agree with it or not.


I did have another response written out but upon reading i I noticed that it was just repetition. If you cannot understand the nature of the reports or if you cannot understand why it is unfair to judge a entire workforce based on the actions of a small minority then I am not going to bother trying to ram it down your throat.

What i will say is this.

You are not a health care professional just because you have read a couple of reports and read the daily mail (and wiki and the bible) does not mean you are in any position to judge the whole of the NHS. Yes if you had a bad experience then you can judge those who were responsible for your care and i would encourage you to do so and report it.

But for you, someone who has no idea how extreme our job gets, to sit behind a keyboard on rattle of this tripe about good staff being in the "minority" is quite frankly insulting to one of the best organizations in the world. The NHS has loads of problems, it always has and it always will, there will never be enough money, there will never be enough beds and there will never be enough staff. But if you need us, when you are at your most venerable, be it being pulled out from underneath a truck or a comforting hand on your death bed you can bet your arse we will be there for you doing the best we can with the resources we have. And you will be glad for it when it comes.

So how about rather than you bitching about it online, how about you actually do something about, you think we need more staff, good me to, go write a letter to your local pm demanding minimum staffing levels at your local hospital. Or better yet volunteer at your local hospital or join a patient partnership program and actually make a difference.

I work in the NHS day in day out, and I always have really, I have seen stuff that is both amazing and horrifying but always under incredible stress.

And why do i put up with all the crap my job chucks at me.

Because I love the NHS and I love caring for the patients under my care.

You quite obviously have no idea what that entails so please just stop moaning and have a little appreciation for those who are there for you when you need it.

edit on 6-1-2014 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)





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