NHS a National Treasure?

reply to post by Shuftystick

Shuftystick
The media in general as well as politicians from all parties have in fact compared the poor NHS patient "care" to that offered in 3rd world countries.

Are these the same media moguls and overpaid politicians that use Bupa for all of their healthcare needs?

Some work experience in a REAL third world hospital will see them straight.

reply to post by cody599


I have reported fairly accurately, what the media and politicians, many of whom have actually visited 3rd world hospitals have stated.

I don't need to go there to have an idea of many of the conditions that the above have compared the NHS to.

Then there are the thousands upon thousands of constituents that have complained to their MPs when the NHS has ignored their complaints.

I am sure that if everything was as rosy as presented by some in this thread last years Keogh Report would not have been required.

There We Are Then.

reply to post by Shuftystick

Read the papers, go along to a court, civil or criminal, dealing with a NHS Trust liability case, submit a Freedom of Information request to your own Trust and ask how many times they have settled out of court to buy silence

I dont need to i have been actively involved in cases that have involved nurses being struck off or doctors behind suspended. I know how this works. I dont think you really know all that much about clinical governance.

Non primary care is poor, overworked payroll staff are making at best mistakes at worst, as has been proven unfortunately committing criminal acts or omissions - when it's been proven in open court more than once - that is why I dare, along with having seen it first hand.

You said that there was a "minority" of good staff, in other words most of us are not fit to do our jobs.

That's whats getting me annoyed.

Yes sometimes we are understaffed and mistakes happen, that is why if i am on shift and we are understaffed we put in a offical complaint to senior management. This gets recorded as a "near miss", meaning that the circumstances jeopardized patient safety, this happened for a couple of months. Eventually we got our staffing levels boosted. Again if you knew anything about clinical governance you would understand how staffing works.

So, please don't be so insistent when you intimate that I don't know what I am talking about.

but you dont.

thats the problem, what you are doing is akin to me writing to the owners of this site telling them how the code for ATS is crap, despite the fact i cant write code. You are telling me and my colleagues how we are all doing our jobs wrong when you dont know how to do our jobs or the details of NHS management.

Some of your colleagues across the NHS have been convicted of murder, be they a GP like Shipman, or one of the nursing profession staff that have been proved to have killed or caused to be killed their patients.

Really?

so what?

The NHS is the fourth largest employer in the world and the largest in Europe, some of those people are going to turn out to be horrible murderers like Shipman. Yet you seem to be trying to tar all 1.7 million of us with the same brush.

The media in general as well as politicians from all parties have in fact compared the poor NHS patient "care" to that offered in 3rd world countries.

what?

i dont even know how to respond to this.

so you are saying the care you might receive at at any one of the 350 NHS hospitals might be worse than say the Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza. Or what about the clinics in Melawi..... set up by NHS emergency staff.

Yes nurses work overlong shifts, but so do many other public sector workers such as Police, who tend to have to babysit arrested persons in casualty while waiting for someone to have attention for petty ailments that could be better dealt with by their GP if they didn't have to wait 2 flipping weeks for an appointment!

again you dont know what you are talking about.

so you are saying if i get arrested but say cut my eye i should be taken down to my local GP rather than A&E..... wrong....

if its something really minor like a cut then the police can deal with that, they also usually dont have to wait for hours because we would rather have the treated quickly and out of our department.

Those cops having to sit in your overstretched casualty department should be out protecting society not sat on their rear looking at a clock saying our waiting time is currently 4hrs.

Where i worked anyway we always had a couple of police officers about because of the risk to staff and patient safety. I would find knifes on people, drugs and so on, then there was the violence, when i got punched for example i just pulled my emergency buzzer and the police arrested the guy. Those cops you are seeing are probably there for that very same reason.

Dude, yes the NHS has some huge problems.

But really insulting and blaming the staff is not going to make it better.

reply to post by Shuftystick


really you just keep digging this hole dont you!

I don't need to go there to have an idea of many of the conditions that the above have compared the NHS to.

So you have never visited any 3rd world hospital but you think that they have the same standards as the NHS..... because you read it in the news.

ok....

show us some links about this!

Then there are the thousands upon thousands of constituents that have complained to their MPs when the NHS has ignored their complaints.

Yeah thousands upon thousands.

who knows how many, perhaps 10's of thousands.

but then again with 15 million inpatient admissions in England alone I guess that is to be expected.

I'll keep it short and sweet.

The NHS is not looking after it's patients as it should - I am sure even you will have deigned to at least scan the Keogh Report?

There We Are Then!

Shuftystick
I'll keep it short and sweet.

The NHS is not looking after it's patients as it should - I am sure even you will have deigned to at least scan the Keogh Report?

There We Are Then!

But that is not the fault of the staff nurse on the ward it is the fault of our political masters and to some extent the public.

Good O' Dave might as well have had a monkey to do that report for all the good its done, the one big thing we need is statutory minimum staffing levels and he wont give us that because they cannot afford it.

Everyone complains about the NHS and sure it's not perfect by any means but without it we would be lost as a nation!

reply to post by alzerallday


I could not agree more.

Thank you.

reply to post by Shuftystick

I have reported fairly accurately, what the media and politicians, many of whom have actually visited 3rd world hospitals have stated.

But I've been there for real, no political agenda

I stand by my words

Cody

There are some who will not see the elephant in the corner of the room...

Courtesy of the RCN Summary into The Keogh Report;

Specific examples mentioned in the Keogh Review report include:
patients being left on trolleys, unmonitored for excessive periods and then being talked down to by consultants
poor maintenance in operating theatres, potentially putting patients in danger
patients often being moved repeatedly between wards without being told why
staff working for 12 days in a row without a break
blood being taken from patients in full view of the rest of the ward low levels of clinical cover – especially out of hours.

And this is what Anne Clwyd M.P. Had stated to the P.M.

Clwyd, the Labour MP for Cynon Valley since 1984 and Tony Blair's former human rights envoy to Iraq, told the Guardian this week that she feared there was a "normalisation of cruelty" among NHS nurses. She had chosen to speak out after her husband's death, she said, because this had become "commonplace".

Clwyd was on the royal commission on the NHS and served on the Welsh hospital board. But she said she found it impossible to make her voice heard.

"It's uncomfortable speaking out and I don't like it but if I couldn't get anyone to listen to me, how do other people manage it?" she asked. "I want people to know that they can't leave things to the professionals in the NHS. You have to keep asking questions."

Clwyd said she "will always regret that I did not ask more questions" but that whenever she tried, she was ignored or brushed off.

Now, if I have genuinely misrepresented the truth I apologise unreservedly, however, the facts speak for themselves, Consultants talking down to patients, surely not, thought that had gone out with the likes of Carry On Doctor?

Of course there is always The Liverpool "Care" Pathway - how does that dwell with the Hypocratic Oath I wonder?

" I will use treatments for the benefit of the ill in accordance with my ability and my judgment, but from what is to their harm and injustice I will keep them"

Not my words...

reply to post by Shuftystick


Again this is where your lack of inside knowledge shows as to how the NHS works

For example the area i am working in, a few years ago we were slammed by the press because we had a patient die while on a trolly in the corridor. That happened not because of cruel nurses but because we had a skeleton staff who were inexperienced and it was "one of those nights" everything went to crap for but reasons i can not get into on ATS we fixed it and it was nursing staff that fixed it. its now one of the best wards in the hospital.

Consultants talk down to everyone, they are getting better but it still happens and it does my head in.

I have worked a 14 day stretch because we had no staff.

And yes we have to "board" patients because of the demands on beds and that is something that will always happen no matter what.

There will never be a "normalization of cruelty" no nurse wants to be cruel, sometimes yes you have to be cruel to be kind, I will tell a patient to shut up if i need to, I will even in extreme situations hit a patient if i have to (self defense but it does happen). But will i ever be cruel just to be cruel, will i ever let a patient starve or refuse to feed someone when they need it. Not a change in hell nor would my colleagues.

I like how you brought up the LCP, probably the most misunderstood document ever.

but again i am guessing you have never actually had to use a LCP.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Well said I used to look after old dears and worked with the LCP and I saw that it was a good tool to help the old dear and also their family make decisions and choices about their end of life care better for all most of all the old dear.
But the gutter press jumped on it as death panels etc...pffft.
PS good on you for sticking up for the NHS and all who work in her

reply to post by boymonkey74


The area i work in now does not use the LCP although I have used it before in the past and found it to be really effective when used correctly. We were all sent on palliative care courses which focused on how to use it correctly.

most of the bad press it gets seems to have been as a result of people not using it correctly particularly when it comes to family involvement.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Yeah I had to do the same course and It did help people like you said If used correctly, I left so what do they use now?

reply to post by boymonkey74


We are not using any kind of standard tool or alternative to LCP as such we have local policy documents that give a evidence base behind certain interventions and advise on the best course of action to take and so on, its not really consulted very often though. Which is a shame because its a very good resource, I have gave it out to a few students who use it for essays and stuff like that.

So what are you saying?
Anne Clwyd made up the story for the P.M. and the press? Nurses anywhere in the NHS have never mistreated people, everything is not as it seems it's all the fault of the politicians and the press or me because I have not worked in a hospital let alone one overseas in a 3rd world country.
You holier than thou debunking apologists for an apology of an NHS make me sick, figuratively. I hope I never end up under your "care" although you may have an understandable desire to reverse that non event.
None of what I have stated, reported, evidenced and quoted is anything other than FACT!
You cannot change that by your protestations, I can't say what I really feel about things otherwise I will be moderated.
Get a life, preferably....no, better not state the obvious.

reply to post by Shuftystick


Mistakes happen we are only human, you are forgetting all the success stories and lives saved by the NHS.
Just reading this thread many here owe a great deal to the NHS but you look at the tiny tiny amount of mistakes that happen.
Very rude of you also saying that about coin, he/she is a dedicated individual doing a thankless job as many tens of thousands of other people doing our type of work not because of money but because we care for others.
I hope you never get ill and have to use the NHS because this thread will shame you.

reply to post by Shuftystick

Anne Clwyd made up the story for the P.M. and the press? Nurses anywhere in the NHS have never mistreated people, everything is not as it seems it's all the fault of the politicians and the press or me because I have not worked in a hospital let alone one overseas in a 3rd world country.

There were 15 million in patients cared for in English Hospitals during 2011, I would bet that you might find 10 really serious cases of abuse in English hospitals over that year where a nurse has knowingly and willingly mistreated a patient.

Are their bad nurses, you bet, but contrary to what you claim, they are very much the minority and do mistakes happen, yes they do, i have made mistakes, I am only human but there are very very few of us who deliberately harm patients.

The thing is you dont know what you are talking about, you're coming across like someone whose read a few articles in the Dail Mail and all of a sudden you think you are a expert on how the NHS works when really you know next to nothing.

So please do not sit their and insult me and my co-workers.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

The thing is you dont know what you are talking about, you're coming across like someone whose read a few articles in the Dail Mail and all of a sudden you think you are a expert on how the NHS works when really you know next to nothing.

The people who are the experts on the NHS are the clients ... or patients.

Not the nurses / medical staff who justify the system and the apologise for its failings.

HelenConway
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

The people who re the experts on the NHS are the clients ... or patients.

Not the nurses / medical staff who justify the system and the apologise for its failings.

No the most important people in the NHS are the service users, the patients.

The experts are the health care professionals working with them, the Orthopedic surgeon is the expert at fixing the NOF, not the patient.