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Calling all atheists

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posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by SuperFrog
 


so you are giving me the right at saying that? you are pushing me to what you want but my original though was




I would like atheist to understand for scientist not having proof of something is not definite proof of the non existence of the event.




It has to be observable to be theory, something that can be verified as either true or false. Inability to verify and further study simply means it can't be theory, especially not scientific theory.


you are wrong, a theory doesn't have to be observable neither true, that statement implies things never change, that what is now know as observable is a constant and nothing else in the future will. theory of relativity was not possible to be proven at the time of its introduction, nothing it predicted could be observable at the time, there are things that new experiments try to prove about it.

it is hard i get it, you just want to argue about the way i said it and not the message, ill say it simpler them

atheist don't recur to science for it you are the same as theist, a baseless idea.

stop wasting time on this dude




posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by Indigent
 



Please note that your example - theory of relativity - it was possible to test it, there were made some changes in process to prove theory and made it what is today.

Can you do the same with religion?

For me it is simple, I used history to learn about religion, where it comes from, what is used for and how it is used today. Apart from not believing in any supreme being, I think that religion is actually at this point in our history hurting us more than helping.

Just as Jim Jefferies has said - time to grow up.



Wonder if you have seen video with Randi, this one I posted by mistake, but now it does make sense to post it.

Let me know what you think.


edit on 8-1-2014 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:23 AM
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Indigent
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

from a scientific point of view i cannot say they aren't real, is that so hard to understand?


But you don't believe in them, right? By your logic, you have no reason not to believe in unicorns and leprechauns, yet you do not regard them as existent beings.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by SuperFrog
 





Please note that your example - theory of relativity - it was possible to test it, there were made some changes in process to prove theory and made it what is today.

Can you do the same with religion?


Common dude in hindsight is easy to say that, ignoring all the years people said it wasn't true, during those years there was no way to know, would you have said the same?

you seems to be working towards my point, can you do the same with atheism?

You dint see my link check it and leave a comment there about my op, not the crappy way i say things or the poor choice of words but about the idea.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

i don't go bashing people that do believe in those things, whats your point? did you read the op???



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:36 AM
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Indigent
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

i don't go bashing people that do believe in those things, whats your point? did you read the op???


I did. My point is that the logic by which you justify theism allows for a much larger range of imaginative liberty than has been exploited by theists. In other words, out of all the things you can logically believe in according to the reasoning you explained, people only choose a limited handful of things to believe in. Why is that? Why believe in a god and not leprechauns? Why believe in angels and demons but not toothfairies?



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:43 AM
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I did. My point is that the logic by which you justify theism allows for
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


you see, when did i said something about theism, i talked all the time only about atheist that shield in science believing they are superior to theist according to it, as i am stating all the time to science both are the same.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by Indigent
 



I would like atheist to understand for scientist not having proof of something is not definite proof of the non existence of the event.

Not believing in god is the same as believing as both require faith.


Your exact words. So why don't theists believe in leprechauns and unicorns as well?



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:57 AM
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Indigent
Common dude in hindsight is easy to say that, ignoring all the years people said it wasn't true, during those years there was no way to know, would you have said the same?

So now we are ol' friends and dude's.
There are scientific theories that we don't know if they will turn to be true or not, but we are in process of validating them. The same can't be done with religion or in your opinion, non-belief. There is nothing to validate, there was nothing in past 2K years of for that matter, 3K years. Stories that religious people believe in are copies of laws and stories form Mesopotamia and couple other civilizations. This we know for fact, and its something we can prove for not being words of God, as suggested by believers. If you really like to learn something interesting today, check this little video. It is historical, about Kings from Babylon to Baghdad. Very interesting, it also mentions bible on couple of occasions.





Indigent
you seems to be working towards my point, can you do the same with atheism?

You have a point? Can I do what to atheism? Think of it as theory - no, I can't. It's not belief system. Its absence of it, actually.


Indigent
You dint see my link check it and leave a comment there about my op, not the crappy way i say things or the poor choice of words but about the idea.

There is no need. If you are using your posting here as promoting material for your own topic, unfortunately it is poorly done and I am not interested in it. Sorry.




Indigent
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

i don't go bashing people that do believe in those things, whats your point? did you read the op???


Someone is bashing you for your believes? Really? Where? How?

Do you go around and try to make people think that their disbelief in God is the same as your belief by any chance?
edit on 8-1-2014 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 





Your exact words. So why don't theists believe in leprechauns and unicorns as well?


isn't it clear? because they don't have faith in them

(disclaimer i'm also not a psychic to correctly answer this)

------------------

forget to answer about this



Someone is bashing you for your believes? Really? Where? How?


this is the op part of my question, again you make things up as i never said anything about someone bashing me, nor do i claimed you bash those groups you like to dish so easily, tread carefully as Irish people are everywhere

edit on 8-1-2014 by Indigent because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:01 AM
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Indigent
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 





Your exact words. So why don't theists believe in leprechauns and unicorns as well?


isn't it clear? because they don't have faith in them

(disclaimer i'm also not a psychic to correctly answer this)


So they choose to have faith in an invisible omnipotent all-knowing sky wizard, but not in leprechauns and unicorns? Hmm, I wonder why that is...
edit on 8-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 





So they choose to have faith in an invisible omnipotent all-knowing sky wizard, but not in leprechauns and unicorns? Hmm, I wonder why that is...


Dude you are a lill thick right now, stop putting things in my mouth i don't believe in god


errr fool of me i'm sure it was a "you" there before you edit it

edit on 8-1-2014 by Indigent because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:08 AM
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Indigent
this is the op part of my question, again you make things up as i never said anything about someone bashing me, nor do i claimed you bash those groups you like to dish so easily, tread carefully as Irish people are everywhere


No, you did not directly said that, but the way you wrote it, sound like we are bashing you for your belief.

As I said many times already, I don't care what you believe in, even if you believe in unicorns, but I do care that your belief does not find its way in for example public schools. Keep it private, your own thing what you belief and what God do you pray to.

But why does my absence of belief and need for God is so hard for you to understand? It is my personal thing as well. Not something I would teach your kid either.

I really don't see any point in your reasoning, if we can this writing call it that way.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:09 AM
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Indigent
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 





So they choose to have faith in an invisible omnipotent all-knowing sky wizard, but not in leprechauns and unicorns? Hmm, I wonder why that is...


Dude you are a lill thick right now, stop putting things in my mouth i don't believe in god


Reread my post. Did I say you believed in any god? Did I say you are a theist? You clearly have an opinion, which is why I'm addressing you, but that's as far as I've gotten. You made a statement and I'm questioning it, slowly making the connections for you that I made for myself. I never accused you of anything, so cool your jets.

Now, why do you think people are willing to have faith in an invisible omnipotent all-knowing sky wizard, but not in leprechauns and unicorns? Clearly, they have justification for believing in unicorns if they can believe in a sky wizard, but they choose not to. Why is that? Why aren't their excuses for believing in a deity good enough to realize the existence of unicorns and leprechauns? Do you have an opinion on that?



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by SuperFrog
 





but I do care that your belief does not find its way in for example public schools.


Don't worry they never do, maybe if i was trying to push them this had any sense, again read what i say

reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


did you saw my edited part before your post?



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:23 AM
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Indigent
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 





So they choose to have faith in an invisible omnipotent all-knowing sky wizard, but not in leprechauns and unicorns? Hmm, I wonder why that is...


Dude you are a lill thick right now, stop putting things in my mouth i don't believe in god


errr fool of me i'm sure it was a "you" there before you edit it

edit on 8-1-2014 by Indigent because: (no reason given)


Actually, it read "So they choose to have faith in an invisible man in the sky"

The underlined portion is the part I changed. You can look right now and see how I changed it. I was attempting to better illustrate the exceedingly thin line between that which theists choose to believe in and that which theists choose not to believe in. So no, there's no reason for your hostile defensiveness. Not that you need a reason.

reply to post by Indigent
 


I just found it. See my response above. Your tactics are transparent, good sir. But now that we've hopefully settled the matter, would you like to address the question I posed for you in my previous post?
edit on 8-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 12:04 PM
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SuperFrog

Indigent
Common dude in hindsight is easy to say that, ignoring all the years people said it wasn't true, during those years there was no way to know, would you have said the same?

So now we are ol' friends and dude's.
There are scientific theories that we don't know if they will turn to be true or not, but we are in process of validating them. The same can't be done with religion or in your opinion, non-belief. There is nothing to validate, there was nothing in past 2K years of for that matter, 3K years. Stories that religious people believe in are copies of laws and stories form Mesopotamia and couple other civilizations. This we know for fact, and its something we can prove for not being words of God, as suggested by believers. If you really like to learn something interesting today, check this little video. It is historical, about Kings from Babylon to Baghdad. Very interesting, it also mentions bible on couple of occasions.



Indigent
you seems to be working towards my point, can you do the same with atheism?

You have a point? Can I do what to atheism? Think of it as theory - no, I can't. It's not belief system. Its absence of it, actually.


Indigent
You dint see my link check it and leave a comment there about my op, not the crappy way i say things or the poor choice of words but about the idea.

There is no need. If you are using your posting here as promoting material for your own topic, unfortunately it is poorly done and I am not interested in it. Sorry.




Indigent
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

i don't go bashing people that do believe in those things, whats your point? did you read the op???


Someone is bashing you for your believes? Really? Where? How?

Do you go around and try to make people think that their disbelief in God is the same as your belief by any chance?
edit on 8-1-2014 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)


I dint saw this as i was in a hurry and tried to answer you and AfterInfinity i got confuse and believe the last part was written by AfterInfinity as it was a reply to him.

The OP of this topic makes an statement of his believes about atheist using science to discredit theist of their believe. my point as I said in several places but you seem to dont read those parts is: regarding science atheism is no difference to theism as their believe of the non existence of god cannot be verified by science, therefore atheism should not shield in science to try to back their claims. my mistake was to try to explain how not seeing something in science doesn't necessary means it does not exist.

As you very well say religion have holes, i dont recall in any point have mention religion. in the topic i made that i told you to see not to self promote me, but because it may had been of some use to give an example as why science cannot rule out god, i clearly and carefully state god only as a creator of reality, religion can be verified by archeologist and disproved, god as creator not. sorry my example of a system with and outside creator not part of the system was not of your please.




As I said many times already, I don't care what you believe in, even if you believe in unicorns, but I do care that your belief does not find its way in for example public schools. Keep it private, your own thing what you belief and what God do you pray to. But why does my absence of belief and need for God is so hard for you to understand? It is my personal thing as well. Not something I would teach your kid either. I really don't see any point in your reasoning, if we can this writing call it that way.


I'm sorry your personal believe about this gets in the way, as i said before i dont believe in god neither i try to push any ideology in schools, my comments where regarding use of science by atheist as the OP stated, first time i see "for the kids" in any of this. about my reasoning each have their points of view and you are entitle to yours so i got nothing to say there.

reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


again never at any point i have justified theism in any way, the reasoning behind why someone chose to believe in something over another is different for each person and i cannot give you a answer to why god and not (insert something here) is part of his believe system.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by Indigent
 



again never at any point i have justified theism in any way, the reasoning behind why someone chose to believe in something over another is different for each person and i cannot give you a answer to why god and not (insert something here) is part of his believe,system.


I think that means something. That they have faith in the one but not the other, I mean. I really think that means something.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 12:53 PM
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Indigent
I dint saw this as i was in a hurry and tried to answer you and AfterInfinity i got confuse and believe the last part was written by AfterInfinity as it was a reply to him.

The OP of this topic makes an statement of his believes about atheist using science to discredit theist of their believe. my point as I said in several places but you seem to dont read those parts is: regarding science atheism is no difference to theism as their believe of the non existence of god cannot be verified by science, therefore atheism should not shield in science to try to back their claims. my mistake was to try to explain how not seeing something in science doesn't necessary means it does not exist.

As you very well say religion have holes, i dont recall in any point have mention religion. in the topic i made that i told you to see not to self promote me, but because it may had been of some use to give an example as why science cannot rule out god, i clearly and carefully state god only as a creator of reality, religion can be verified by archeologist and disproved, god as creator not. sorry my example of a system with and outside creator not part of the system was not of your please.


The OP of this topic got more frustrated by use of comedian and entertainers in for his opinion serious discussion. Problem is that those people, regardless of their profession, seriously make good points that are against religion. Scientists mostly try to stay away from similar discussion exactly for reason as there is nothing to comment - no single piece of evidence.

Sure, they can't prove or disprove God's existence, but neither they can have theory regarding it. There is clear line between belief system and scientific research. People trying to validate science trough scripture does not work well, just as Father George Coyne mentions in his interview, calling it kind of plague.

Again, not being able to provide proof of Gods existence is exactly that - no existence. That is where science ends. There is no reason to prove negative, just as Randy explained in his video.

Hope this makes it clearer...



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by SuperFrog
 


I disagree. I feel that when theists bring their evidence to the table, and we demonstrate how inconclusive it is, their destroyed evidence becomes our evidence. Their failed efforts become our case. Nothing to brag about, of course, but certainly nothing we can ignore either. In the end, as is demonstrated time and again, it comes down to a simple matter of believing "just 'coz". And it becomes a "just cause". Ha. But I guess when people are discouraged from being overly imaginative, from thinking radically, they need to get their inspiration from somewhere. But that's just how I see it.



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