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Calling all atheists

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posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 08:41 AM
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AfterInfinity
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


See my previous post. You're still trying to bait me, so I'm done with you. Have fun.


NO!

You still avoid the orginal point of the OP.




posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 08:42 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 11:20 AM
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So I mentioned in my OP that I was "angered just tad" by some comments, and my thread gets moved to the 'Rant' forum?
I will argue that my supposition falls, albeit loosely, within Barkun's idea of the classic systematic conspiracy theory, hence my posting the thread in 'Religious Conspiracies'.
The mod who moved my thread must be an atheist.



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by ColeYounger
 


Ridiculous and unnecessary allegations won't help your case. Baiting won't do much for you either. You have no idea what goes into the moderation process, so with all due respect, let's stay on the topic you chose for us rather than engaging in personal attacks on members - moderators included.

Your points are:


First and foremost…
Rejecting anything and everything that you consider theological, religious, or spiritual
doesn’t automatically make you “scientific-minded”.

Second….
There are people much smarter than you who believe in God.

Finally…
Feel free to believe that “spiritual” = “unscientific”


Let's resume our discussion surrounding these points. I'll go back to lurking and see where it goes.



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


What in the literal, [snip] I did not post that!
edit on 7-1-2014 by elevatedone because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 12:08 PM
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snip]
edit on 7-1-2014 by elevatedone because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 12:09 PM
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[snip]
edit on 7-1-2014 by elevatedone because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 12:12 PM
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Carry On.
edit on 7-1-2014 by elevatedone because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by SuperFrog
 





Sure thing, here are some articles covering the same or similar polls.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

www.faithstreet.com...

www.npr.org...

nymag.com...

www.nytimes.com...

And guess what...

religion.blogs.cnn.com...


Please remember, you said, "And interestingly all pools show that atheist actually know more about religion and bible."

You posted four articles about the same poll by Pew Research and another article about a study by university psychologists.

TWO POLLS DOES NOT AMOUNT TO ALL POLLS.



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 01:12 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 01:54 PM
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.....So....is there any point to keeping this thread on my subscriptions list?



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 01:58 PM
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TruthLover557
reply to post by SuperFrog
 

Please remember, you said, "And interestingly all pools show that atheist actually know more about religion and bible."

You posted four articles about the same poll by Pew Research and another article about a study by university psychologists.

TWO POLLS DOES NOT AMOUNT TO ALL POLLS.


There has been only 2 polls that address those question (actually one of them specifically asking about knowledge of religion) as far as I can find. Both of them show the same results. DO you have any other data?

And yes, 2 polls do amount to all polls if they ask unique question. It is not like something that we have historical data, like percent of people who believe in God in USA.



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 02:04 PM
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SuperFrog

TruthLover557
reply to post by SuperFrog
 

Please remember, you said, "And interestingly all pools show that atheist actually know more about religion and bible."

You posted four articles about the same poll by Pew Research and another article about a study by university psychologists.

TWO POLLS DOES NOT AMOUNT TO ALL POLLS.


There has been only 2 polls that address those question (actually one of them specifically asking about knowledge of religion) as far as I can find. Both of them show the same results. DO you have any other data?

And yes, 2 polls do amount to all polls if they ask unique question. It is not like something that we have historical data, like percent of people who believe in God in USA.


Yeah...I think there might be some other statistics of relatively superior priority. So that survey kinda didn't make it into the mail. Sorry man.

edit on 7-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 02:14 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 03:23 PM
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Let me start this off by saying that I am an atheist, and I have come to that conclusion in my life after growing up in a very strong Christian household. I took my own journey, did my own research and weighed the probabilities of one claim versus another, and I had no choice to go with atheism over religion. But again, those are personal decisions, and I could honestly care less what you or anyone else believes, as long as it doesn't affect me personally.

Also, being an atheist affords me the freedom to not have to default to the cliche, "Because the Bible says so," in order to explain something that I (or science) does not currently understand.

That said, let's get to it...


ColeYounger

First and foremost…
...
Real scientists seek the truth, and don’t reject something out of hand because it isn’t plainly visible or proven. A real scientist could look at a tree and at least entertain the idea that there could be a designer, an intelligence, a creator behind it.



I think you are misguided as to how science works. See, scientists--and those of us who are scientifically minded individuals--already know that something should not be rejected solely on the basis that it can't be seen or proven. BUT, we should also be extremely skeptical concerning claims that have had zero scientifically valid proof over a long history of claiming to be real. To latch on to a belief that has had that history of unprovable claims is the direct antithesis to science, especially when said belief demands a lifetime's devotion and worship...and tithing, for that matter. We could argue the scientific method all day, but when a belief system is founded on a one-step scientific method of hypothesis=conclusion, you can't sit there with a straight face and believe that you just made a great point to counter atheism.


ColeYounger

Second….
There are people much smarter than you who believe in God. There are physicists, mathematicians and biologists with stellar I.Q.s who believe in a creator. Are they being scientific and unscientific at the same time? There are some deep thinkers out there who have pushed their very sanity to its limits, grappling with concepts that are beyond the realm of human understanding. They have stared into the abyss, and many have come away concluding there must be a God. How can these unscientific simpletons match intellects with the likes of Penn & Teller, the Las Vegas magicians who have avowed there’s no God?



Okay, this is going to sound like I'm tooting my own horn, but I'm not--I'm simply making a pertinent point. My IQ is consistently in the 140s, and I have to argue the point with you that just because someone is smart in one field of science, or one specific skill set, does not an intelligent individual make. So, you can make your naive inference that magicians could never be more intelligent than a scientist, but I would argue that this is probably the case on more than one occasion in life. Be careful not to interchange "intelligence" and "smartness," as they do not equate to the same thing. So, yes, many smart people believe in a god or a creator (they are not the same thing, as you implied in your post), and there are also intelligent ones that do to. But that doesn't make those of us who don't any less intelligent or less smart. This argument is a red herring of the worst kind--do not consider something valid just because those purported to be smart or intelligent might believe it without proof.


ColeYounger

Finally…
Feel free to believe that “spiritual” = “unscientific”. Go ahead and believe that when you die, it’s The End, and you’re worm food. Go ahead and believe, essentially, in nothing beyond our limited consciousness and awareness.
In your defense, it’s human nature to doubt. Even Mother Teresa had a ‘dark night of the soul’ where her faith was weakened. Many saints have experienced ‘spiritual dryness.’ The Apostle Thomas, the doubter, was the one who got to touch the wounds of Christ.



First, your point about "The Apostle Thomas" is moot because I don't believe in your christ figure, nor do I believe Thomas did what the Bible claims. That said, you pigeon-hole all atheists as people who can't contemplate that, just because we don't believe in gods or religion, our only alternative is to believe that there is "nothing beyond our limited consciousness and awareness." That, again, is an argument on a false premise. See, those of us who reject religion are free to believe anything we want to concerning the afterlife and are not limited to what we're told to believe.

Personally, I am intelligent enough to say that I have zero clue as to what happens to the energy that gives bodies "life," but I'm certainly not going to default to the notion that it's a soul and it will ascend to some claimed pearly gates and meet Saint Peter to judge me. Being of scientific mind, I would love to know the answer to this more than anything, but I refuse to apply tunnel vision to my imagination as to what is the answer by using a fallible book to tell me what to believe.

Look, I'm not one of these atheists who troll around the religion threads and call believers names; like I said, I care less what you believe. But if you are going to try to put up arguments to try and belittle all atheists just because you don't like some posts by a few, please do a better job at getting your points across as credible. Otherwise, if you don't like belittling posts by atheists, don't fight fire with fire.

Best Regards.
edit on 7-1-2014 by SlapMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by SlapMonkey
 





I think you are misguided as to how science works. See, scientists--and those of us who are scientifically minded individuals--already know that something should not be rejected solely on the basis that it can't be seen or proven. BUT, we should also be extremely skeptical concerning claims that have had zero scientifically valid proof over a long history of claiming to be real.


You're the misguided one, my friend. As to "how science works"... The greatest scientists in history (Einstein, Tesla, Newton just to name a couple) stated very clearly that the process of science is not predetermined, and that a scientist could devote an entire career trying to prove something that could in fact turn out to be wrong. The good scientist will admit the "mistake." (It's not really a mistake, per se, but the further advancement of science.)
Your remark of "zero scientifically valid proof over a long history" is in itself an 'old-fashioned' type of statement in this context.
When Pastuer spoke of germs (tiny creatures), he was ridiculed as believing that elves and fairies caused disease.
Today's out-there theory can be tomorrow's accepted fact.
Scientists have inferred for a long, long time that one can find many clues that may at least suggest an intelligent design. There are biologists who, after studying an organism intricately will tell you it simply could not have just 'evolved', or 'happened'.

I mean no offense by this, but you self-proclaimed scientific minded atheists seem to have this never ending knee-jerk reaction that when someone like me says "God" or "creator", that I'm talking about an old guy with a beard sitting up on a cloud.
I'm talking about a supreme intelligence that is behind what we call 'science'. This intelligence is what's causing your heart to beat right now.

Do some research, and you'll find that some of the greatest scientific minds are convinced that there is an intelligent design at work, and that we're not here as the result of some totally random, undirected process.





Okay, this is going to sound like I'm tooting my own horn, but I'm not--I'm simply making a pertinent point. My IQ is consistently in the 140s, and I have to argue the point with you that just because someone is smart in one field of science, or one specific skill set, does not an intelligent individual make.


I never claimed what you're inferring.





First, your point about "The Apostle Thomas" is moot because I don't believe in your christ figure, nor do I believe Thomas did what the Bible claims.


You obviously didn't understand my reference. I said I fully understand why some people are atheists, because to doubt is simply human nature. I said that Thomas the doubter was actually the one who was shown the truth. Up close and personal.



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 08:52 PM
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SuperFrog

Xtrozero

bottleslingguy

you may say "well you are just substituting religion for aliens" and I would argue the difference is the aliens are real.


So is God and Jesus....you show me your proof and I'll show you mine...


Please do show us your proof.

I believe there was never found any evidence for Jesus, except stories from Bible. Now, even location does not match description in Bible. Keep in mind, those stories are written many years from 'supposed' events.


Do you not understand my post?



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 08:55 PM
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bottleslingguy

Xtrozero

bottleslingguy

you may say "well you are just substituting religion for aliens" and I would argue the difference is the aliens are real.


So is God and Jesus....you show me your proof and I'll show you mine...


Where is Jesus now? and God doesn't seem to care very much about humans so that's why my hopes are on the aliens. It's more realistic in my view to expect help from aliens than your crew.



I really love that you used the word "realistic" when talking about aliens..... BTW they are not my crew but I would bet that the evidence is the same....



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by ColeYounger

Can you please check my earlier post, reply on your opening post? Is my guess correct that my reply made you rant?

Here is link: www.abovetopsecret.com...


 


reply to post by Xtrozero

Apparently not, care to explain?
edit on 7-1-2014 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by ColeYounger
 


I apologize for jumping into the conversation and picking at your post but the part where you said.




Scientists have inferred for a long, long time that one can find many clues that may at least suggest an intelligent design. There are biologists who, after studying an organism intricately will tell you it simply could not have just 'evolved', or 'happened'.


First you make it sound like all scientists infer that later you claim the greatest minds do. I do not think you are being factual with those statements however if it is true you should have no problem finding the quotes.

Second you state that Some biologists claim an organism couldn't have evolved on its own. Which I am sure their are some who have said that as I am sure their are some who have said the opposite. I certainly hope you don't consider any of what you presented as evidence of ID. Those are opinions not evidence. How about the scientists that hold the opinion that there is no way the universe or organisms on earth show signs of intelligent design. The universe is chaotic the human and almost all species on earth are poorly "designed" what kind of intelligence would do such a bad job of it?

If we were designed so intelligently then how is it that we are trying to fix the design. How hard would it have been to make us be able to regrow limbs heart or even brain like lizards (forget the exact species that does all that) age backwards like immortal jellyfish regrow teeth like sharks or gators/crocodile the list goes on. Do you know how many humans have died young due to mouth infections/teeth? How about the multitudes of viruses that we are susceptible to.

Well anyway that is an opinion just as valid as the opinion that we must be designed however neither is evidence one way or another.

IMO if there was evidence of an ID there wouldn't be a debate on the subject.



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