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Socialized Healthcare vs. The Laws of Economics

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posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 05:01 PM
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Interesting article that brings out some facts that may explain some of the confusions involved with health insurance and why policies seem to be all tied in with networks and referrals and hospitals.

One possibly little know fact is that apparently most hospitals are not owned by private companies.

It looks like less than 20% are private. The rest are mostly listed as a mix of community and non-profit.

The article seems to tie together the economics of the whole mess.

Maybe this shows that most of the medical care is already at government levels and not so "private" as we may think ?

Perhaps that is an indicator of "socialized" medicine ?



Some years ago, the Nobel-laureate economist Milton Friedman studied the history of healthcare supply in America. In a 1992 study published by the Hoover Institution, entitled "Input and Output in Health Care," Friedman noted that 56 percent of all hospitals in America were privately owned and for-profit in 1910. After 60 years of subsidies for government-run hospitals, the number had fallen to about 10 percent. It took decades, but by the early 1990s government had taken over almost the entire hospital industry. That small portion of the industry that remains for-profit is regulated in an extraordinarily heavy way by federal, state and local governments so that many (perhaps most) of the decisions made by hospital administrators have to do with regulatory compliance as opposed to patient/customer service in pursuit of profit. It is profit, of course, that is necessary for private-sector hospitals to have the wherewithal to pay for healthcare.

Friedman's key conclusion was that, as with all governmental bureaucratic systems, government-owned or -controlled healthcare created a situation whereby increased "inputs," such as expenditures on equipment, infrastructure, and the salaries of medical professionals, actually led to decreased "outputs" in terms of the quantity of medical care. For example, while medical expenditures rose by 224 percent from 1965–1989, the number of hospital beds per 1,000 population fell by 44 percent and the number of beds occupied declined by 15 percent. Also during this time of almost complete governmental domination of the hospital industry (1944–1989), costs per patient-day rose almost 24-fold after inflation is taken into account.



Main Article;
Article

Reference story;
Fast Facts on US Hospitals




edit on Jan-04-2014 by xuenchen because:





posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 05:41 PM
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The reason why a lot of hospitals are listed as non profit is so they can file for government aid. As long as they provide medical care to a certain percentage of poor they get money and tax breaks. All of these hospitals are privately owned.
edit on 4-1-2014 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 05:51 PM
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buster2010

The reason why a lot of hospitals are listed as non profit is so they can file for government aid. As long as they provide medical care to a certain percentage of poor they get money and tax breaks. All of these hospitals are privately owned.
edit on 4-1-2014 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)


You are probably right.

Can you show us how they do that and if they make money ?



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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I think it has gotten too complex for human minds to grasp the whole picture and those who know it best are thieves who parasite without developmental purposes at all. Just want what they can get. Free up science from the Mil-Ind complex and then we'll figure it all out.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 06:25 PM
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One of the major reason that healthcare is so expensive is because of the high cost of medical equipment and technology. They do not need things that are rarely used otherwise people go for testing when it is not necessary. A doctor can fabricate a possible disease to create a need for some test. They do it to make sure that enough people use the services and this supports the technicians and helps pay for the equipment. Half these things are not needed and the diagnosis is not right.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 06:55 PM
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buster2010
The reason why a lot of hospitals are listed as non profit is so they can file for government aid. As long as they provide medical care to a certain percentage of poor they get money and tax breaks. All of these hospitals are privately owned.
edit on 4-1-2014 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)


While I fully understand the non-profit status enjoyed by a lot of organizations. Your statement that all hospitals are privately owned simply isn't the case. Our local hospital is owned by the citizens of our county and overseen by the elected city and county officials and individuals appointed by them. Because it is owned by the county all the hospital's financial records are a matter of public record as are the board meetings. In our case our hospital is the same as our parks system.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 07:11 PM
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from the link in the OP;




Total Number of All U.S. Registered * Hospitals
5,723

Number of U.S. Community ** Hospitals
4,999

Number of Nongovernment Not-for-Profit Community Hospitals
2,894

Number of Investor-Owned (For-Profit) Community Hospitals
1,068

Number of State and Local Government Community Hospitals
1,037


Fast Facts on US Hospitals



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Healthcare as a field does not follow some of the most basic laws of economics - especially the law of Demand, which states that the quantity demanded and the price of a commodity are inversely related, other things remaining constant.

When it comes to healthcare, price does not affect the demand. When someone is dying and that treatment would save their life, they would do anything to pay for the treatment. That is called inelasticity of the price. For me personally that is the main reason, why I believe in universal healthcare, as well as simple empathy towards other people and lower costs of medicine.



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 10:19 AM
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I gave you a s&f for using a Mises link. It's such a great source for Libertarian ideology and I'm actually quite surprised it isn't referenced more on this website with all the resident Libertarians we have.

As for the article, I agree, but then again I agree with most articles from that website



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 12:59 PM
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rickymouse
One of the major reason that healthcare is so expensive is because of the high cost of medical equipment and technology. They do not need things that are rarely used otherwise people go for testing when it is not necessary. A doctor can fabricate a possible disease to create a need for some test. They do it to make sure that enough people use the services and this supports the technicians and helps pay for the equipment. Half these things are not needed and the diagnosis is not right.


Uh, no. Docs don't fabricate need for possible tests. A lot of testing is driven by a tort system that sues you if you don't check every single possible issue rather than the most likely ones. This drives up the cost of medicine. Doctors do not fabricate stuff to pay for equipment and keep people employed. I know this is a conspiracy site, but man, some of the machinations people go through to try to prove a conspiracy in their own mind.



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by NavyDoc
 


Not every doctor is like you. I have been personally run through the mill with unnecessary testing. I had good insurance. I know first hand that this can occur, the incidents I am referring to were so clearly not what the doctors were saying that it is rediculous. Maybe the two doctors watched too much "House" on tv. After many thousands of dollars of testing I just walked away. I am not blind.

Being a person who took care of relatives when they were sick, I also saw them being led down the wrong path. I do not think the doctors were that unintelligent that they could have got the diagnosis that far off sometimes.

I do have some doctors I know that are good and can get a person up and running right away. They take care of business. It seems to be the ones that are compassionate that seem to order the wrong tests and procedures. You see them out having lunch with the people they are sending you to.

Would you send a person to get tested for asthma the day after you diagnosed the patient with pnemonia? Tests were done to diagnose the pnemonia. The Doctor giving the asthma test was pissed when I told him I was just diagnosed with pnemonia after he did the test. He said it was a complete waste of time. Like I said not all doctors are like that but people like to go to the doctors who act concerned and get them tested. I would rather go to a crabby old fart who gets you fixed.

I can give you three more personal examples .



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