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ATS has been consumed by an elitist mentality!

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posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 10:59 AM
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funbox
reply to post by Krakatoa
 


yeah I went in a thread last night and ended up staying awake till 7 am waiting for the cowards to show me how I was the opening poster ... and I will keep waiting too by the looks of it

too right Daas

funBox


I saw that, you were there for the bananas. I know it.

What else is in that box, we will never know Oo




posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by daaskapital
 

This happens regardless of various members' longevity and stats. It's been done by veterans and newbies alike.

The best solution is to evaluate each post or argument in a thread entirely based on the content, with complete disregard for the member's stats or standing within the ATS community.

I do not automatically have a higher regard for someone's opinion just because they have 10,000 posts, or they are involved in the operation of the site. I try to maintain respect for everyone's opinion on principle, although that proves difficult sometimes (for everyone, not just me).

The artificial reverence you see for the "elite" members is based on a "follower" mentality, not on critical thinking.

That said, I find that quality discussions still happen regularly here, so for me the phenomenon is not ruining the participatory experience.

edit on 1/4/2014 by InTheFlesh1980 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:04 AM
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daaskapital

iRoyalty
Just to play devil's advocate (my favourite game) perhaps you do not have enough facts for your arguments? If I get a hater, I shut them up pretty sharpish with some nicely sourced info.


The actions of which i am talking about frequently occur in many threads. I would post evidence if it was allowed, but i am sure you know what i am getting at.


Of course I do, I'm just being the other side of the fence for arguments sake!

Maybe I'm just good at defusing people but I do see that people resort to personal digs quite quickly. I find sourcing the cr*p out of people is usually very effective, granted perhaps not when based on personal belief, but there's always someone more intelligent who can put it better than you can.

My weapon of choice, knowledge



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:10 AM
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InTheFlesh1980
reply to post by daaskapital
 

This happens regardless of various members' longevity and stats. It's been done by veterans and newbies alike.

The best solution is to evaluate each post or argument in a thread entirely based on the content, with complete disregard for the member's stats or standing within the ATS community.

I do not automatically have a higher regard for someone's opinion just because they have 10,000 posts, or they are involved in the operation of the site. I try to maintain respect for everyone's opinion on principle, although that proves difficult sometimes (for everyone, not just me).

The artificial reverence you see for the "elite" members is based on a "follower" mentality, not on critical thinking.

That said, I find that quality discussions still happen regularly here, so for me the phenomenon is not ruining the participatory experience.

edit on 1/4/2014 by InTheFlesh1980 because: (no reason given)


Yes, i agree. I never stated that all members who committed such actions were those with high stats. I simply stated that some of them do have high stats.

When i use the term 'elite' in this thread, i am referring to those who believe they are higher than others here. Whether such members are veterans of ATS or new members is irrelevant, as i have witnessed the attitudes in people of both categories.

Indeed there are still quality discussions on ATS. It is just that i am seeing this type of behaviour increasing. Threads which have potential to be great discussion starters tend to die because of these actions. Either that or they get convoluted.

Thanks for taking the time to read, and post.

Daas.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:14 AM
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iRoyalty

daaskapital

iRoyalty
Just to play devil's advocate (my favourite game) perhaps you do not have enough facts for your arguments? If I get a hater, I shut them up pretty sharpish with some nicely sourced info.


The actions of which i am talking about frequently occur in many threads. I would post evidence if it was allowed, but i am sure you know what i am getting at.


Of course I do, I'm just being the other side of the fence for arguments sake!

Maybe I'm just good at defusing people but I do see that people resort to personal digs quite quickly. I find sourcing the cr*p out of people is usually very effective, granted perhaps not when based on personal belief, but there's always someone more intelligent who can put it better than you can.

My weapon of choice, knowledge




I agree.

Knowledge and hard evidence tends to stop these posters in their tracks, and is usually the best method at deterring them.

Thanks for your input.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by winofiend
 


the point is there is only one me, I don't do socks , being called a dual user/ a deceiver isn't very pleasant . I don't come here to play mind games of that nature.. games of the mind I enjoy , but not deceptive ones involving multiple accounts. sounds like too much hardwork


funBox



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:17 AM
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There are two characteristics needed to survive the internet mine field also known as ATS.

1). Incredibly thick skin
2). Wit

Be willing to ignore certain people and move on. Don't fall in love with your owns threads.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by daaskapital
 


Speaking as a more experienced member, I routinely get my ass handed to me from other experienced members as well as new members.

New members or old members, facts will win out, honest debate will win out in the end.

Just my humble opinion.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by daaskapital
 

I see what you're saying, Daas.

There was another thread along these lines recently. I know this has been said many times, but it's true. ATS is a microcosm of the real world. You're going to come across all kinds on here. From sociopaths to kind, gentle souls. The staff really do try to walk a fine line here. I applaud their patience and insight. I'm not holding them up as perfect. I don't always agree with their actions, but that's to be expected. We are all individuals from many different backgrounds. I'm just saying, as a whole, I think they do a great job of knowing when to step in, and when to leave it alone. That said...

I'm not so sure elitism is the right word to describe what you're talking about. In any group, you're going to find those who stand out for a variety of reasons. Some because they are respected, and some because they aren't. Everyone else falls between the two extremes to varying degrees. Obviously, you're also going to find behavior that resembles a pack of wolves at times. Just like you would offline.

I think the best we can do is try to be good examples, of how to conduct ourselves as adults who observe proper social etiquette, and are respectful of others. I have had my own attitude issues in the past, and I have taken great pains to change that. If I wouldn't say it in a group of people, or face to face. I have no business saying it to anyone on ATS. To do so, is just cowardice, and hiding behind anonymity.

I guess my bottom line is the old cliche... "We need to be the change we want to see here at ATS." If enough of us take a stand to do that. It WILL make a difference. I guarantee it.
edit on 1/4/2014 by Klassified because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by daaskapital
 



- Specific members in forums have an egotistical opinion of themselves, and choose to display their 'knowledge' by belittling and oppressing the average member.


A strong opinion, is not a T&C violation. The belittling of members or any kind of disrespect is however.

Alert these posts.


- Sometimes, these members will band together and completely tear apart a post of an individual who had obviously spent the time and effort into presenting information or an idea to us.


Skepticism is encouraged on ATS, as long as it falls within the T&C and is done with tact.

A difference of opinion, or a debunking of bad information, is not a T&C violation.


- These members attack others in more ways than what is considered normal, even to the point of attempting to belittle members through methods not covered in the T&C's. Such attacks leave their actions virtually unedited or properly examined.


This statement provides no actual facts or examples of what you are talking about.


- These members will continue to engage others on a topic until the thread has either died out, or has suffered zero input from others due to such actions.


Or perhaps its that the other side does not have a proper argument? I've been 'schooled' on far more than one occasion by a band of members who wanted to show me how wrong I was.

I for one appreciate it, when it's down with tact.


- Some of these members will follow a specific OP into other threads of theirs in order to continue their assault.


Hearsay. There's hardly any 'member' stalking that goes on. If there are, where are the alerts to staff?


- Some of these members exist in the higher ATS social status, and as such, expect respect from others on the site. As a side-effect, these members feel that they are somehow superior to their fellow members, and as such, act in either aggressive or oppressive ways.


The D-Ego is a big problem in every online community. Yes some attain some kind of social status and think they are above the rest. Trust me when I saw a PM from staff usually changes all of that.


- Such actions are left unchallenged by the average member, and to some extent, even the moderators. While i understand that the moderators are trying their best to patrol these boards, there are demeaning posts which continue to stand when smaller posts are removed in the very same thread or page.


Actually the staff do not 'patrol' the boards in any sense of the word. about 90% of all staff actions are the result of member complaints. No member complaints, no actions.

ATS receives more than 10 thousand posts a day, our staff is about 70. You can imagine how we rely almost entirely on the membership to keep this place the way it is.

Again, where are the alerts?


I do continue to enjoy ATS and its services, but it is not the same website it used to be.


What seems to have changed is that instead of alerting these problems and trying to involve staff in fixing them, you ignore them or just assume them to be the norm. The apathy displayed by those in question contributes more to the problem then the members themselves.

We cannot help the community unless they help us.

Here's a thread SO authored a while back, I think it fits in this case.

The Rise Of The ATS Invertebrate: or, it takes a spine to be a conspiracy theorist.

Be the change that you'd like to see. If these problems are so prevalent and everlasting then by all means, compile some examples and create an alert for staff to look at. I can't guarantee we will agree with you, but it will certainly be investigated.

~Tenth
ATS Super Mod



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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Ah the thread police.......yes they are out there in society by their millions too.....
Always watching for opportunity to display their emotional immaturity and insensitivity towards others......
Always just hanging on the chance to deconstruct someones heartfelt ponderings with their malevolent comments and stupid insults.....
Those guys?
They are the great majority of humanity
get over it.....................................................



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:30 AM
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Klassified
reply to post by daaskapital
 

I see what you're saying, Daas.

There was another thread along these lines recently. I know this has been said many times, but it's true. ATS is a microcosm of the real world. You're going to come across all kinds on here. From sociopaths to kind, gentle souls. The staff really do try to walk a fine line here. I applaud their patience and insight. I'm not holding them up as perfect. I don't always agree with their actions, but that's to be expected. We are all individuals from many different backgrounds. I'm just saying, as a whole, I think they do a great job of knowing when to step in, and when to leave it alone. That said...

I'm not so sure elitism is the right word to describe what you're talking about. In any group, you're going to find those who stand out for a variety of reasons. Some because they are respected, and some because they aren't. Everyone else falls between the two extremes to varying degrees. Obviously, you're also going to find behavior that resembles a pack of wolves at times. Just like you would offline.

I think the best we can do is try to be good examples, of how to conduct ourselves as adults who observe proper social etiquette, and are respectful of others. I have had my own attitude issues in the past, and I have taken great pains to change that. If I wouldn't say it in a group of people, or face to face. I have no business saying it to anyone on ATS. To do so, is just cowardice, and hiding behind anonymity.

I guess my bottom line is the old cliche... "We need to be the change we want to see here at ATS." If enough of us take a stand to do that. It WILL make a difference. I guarantee it.
edit on 1/4/2014 by Klassified because: (no reason given)


I agree completely!

No doubt the moderators try their best at keeping everything under control. I also understand that they are extremely busy, and may not be able to get on top of everything, all of the time.

I suppose i am just disappointed in the actions of some members. I mean, i know i used to act up a bit, but some of these members are just so disruptive...i can only hope they follow the same path as many of us.

Thank you very much for your contribution!


Daas.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:45 AM
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The one way to take care of these members is to simply ignore them and pretend they never replied in your thread.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:48 AM
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ATS is filled to overflowing with trolls, arrogant smart asses, elitist know it all's, aggressive mods, mod wannabees,
juvenile snark artists, ideology shrine tenders, drunks, holier than thou religious freaks, charlatans, certifiably insane members, bored housewives and "people like you"

and some of the finest minds to ever grace the interwebs [they don't last long before getting banned or just leaving in total disgust]

I wouldn't have it any other way....




edit on 4-1-2014 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:50 AM
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your cpu is like a TV, turn it off and walk away for awhile?

Do not let people get to you. Heated debates get emotions involved.

a neat concept .. ignore them?

you can't worry if everyone likes you or not. It also would be boring if people agreed with you.
I had people in high school that I hated, sure most people did. But never let it interfere with "your roll".

perhaps they are paid members, NSA shills, or just angry trolls?


when I get irritated, I go to chess.com and play some, it relieves stress and is FREE.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by daaskapital
 


ATS was once a truly great site. Sadly, too many people under the age of 25 have joined. We all know that young people think that they know it all and anyone who challenges their views and opinions, must be mocked and ridiculed.

I just lurk on here and I have seen Phage get owned a few times and when he does, he shuts his mouth and says nothing.
He is far from stupid but he is not as smart as he thinks he is and I often wonder why so many people respect him?

Some other members have to resort to trolling because they have personal issues, probably due to being bullied at School or having few friends.

Sadly, ATS is a dying site because of the younger generation using their over-active imagination and cooking up stories, just for attention.

I now only read the OP post, and then do my own my research on the subject. I hardly ever read the comments by other users.



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 12:07 PM
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tothetenthpower
reply to post by daaskapital
 



- Specific members in forums have an egotistical opinion of themselves, and choose to display their 'knowledge' by belittling and oppressing the average member.


A strong opinion, is not a T&C violation. The belittling of members or any kind of disrespect is however.

Alert these posts.


Unfortunately, i see both go hand in hand on ATS.

I do alert posts i think are disrespectful or are contrary to the T&C's.



- Sometimes, these members will band together and completely tear apart a post of an individual who had obviously spent the time and effort into presenting information or an idea to us.


Skepticism is encouraged on ATS, as long as it falls within the T&C and is done with tact.

A difference of opinion, or a debunking of bad information, is not a T&C violation.


Indeed it is. A healthy dose of skepticism is excellent, but when it is done by members who are intentionally patrolling forums ready to jump on the unsuspecting poster, it gets tiring, and frankly unacceptable. There is a fine line between disproving someone with hard evidence and completely destroying them.

Some members act in groups, who will use each other, and build off of each other's posts in order to belittle and completely silence the OP. isn't this type of behaviour in breach of the T&C's?


16d.) Forum Gangs: You will not engaged in an organized collaboration with other members to disrupt thread topics or interrupt the flow of normal collaborative discussion. Doing so will result in removal of your Post(s) and immediate termination of your account.


www.abovetopsecret.com...



- These members attack others in more ways than what is considered normal, even to the point of attempting to belittle members through methods not covered in the T&C's. Such attacks leave their actions virtually unedited or properly examined.


This statement provides no actual facts or examples of what you are talking about.


As far as i knew, it is unacceptable for ATS members to name and shame others. I assume that publicly linking directly to a thread with the contents would have the same affect.

In any case, i can attempt to recover examples of such behavior and PM you.



- These members will continue to engage others on a topic until the thread has either died out, or has suffered zero input from others due to such actions.


Or perhaps its that the other side does not have a proper argument? I've been 'schooled' on far more than one occasion by a band of members who wanted to show me how wrong I was.

I for one appreciate it, when it's down with tact.


I have witnessed many threads which stood up to scrutiny, only to be ridiculed by disruptive members, which would have an affect on the progression of said thread. I am fairly sure these threads are avoided due to members not wanting to get involved in the incidents.



- Some of these members will follow a specific OP into other threads of theirs in order to continue their assault.


Hearsay. There's hardly any 'member' stalking that goes on. If there are, where are the alerts to staff?


No, it is not hearsay. I have personally experienced it by some members. You know what? I alerted the staff, but nothing was done. These members would follow me into specific threads, namely my WW2 set (in addition to others) in an attempt to deter me or disrupt the overall thread. Not only that, some members of whom i reported were also breaking the T&C's with their own individual posts, yet nothing was done.

I generally hold the moderators in high regard, but you can't tell me that member stalking doesn't regularly happen, because i have experienced it. I authored a thread about it once, and other members agreed with me, that it does happen occasionally...needless to say, my thread was closed, and i never got a response from the moderator even though i asked why it was closed.



- Some of these members exist in the higher ATS social status, and as such, expect respect from others on the site. As a side-effect, these members feel that they are somehow superior to their fellow members, and as such, act in either aggressive or oppressive ways.


The D-Ego is a big problem in every online community. Yes some attain some kind of social status and think they are above the rest. Trust me when I saw a PM from staff usually changes all of that.


I agree.



- Such actions are left unchallenged by the average member, and to some extent, even the moderators. While i understand that the moderators are trying their best to patrol these boards, there are demeaning posts which continue to stand when smaller posts are removed in the very same thread or page.


Actually the staff do not 'patrol' the boards in any sense of the word. about 90% of all staff actions are the result of member complaints. No member complaints, no actions.

ATS receives more than 10 thousand posts a day, our staff is about 70. You can imagine how we rely almost entirely on the membership to keep this place the way it is.

Again, where are the alerts?


Fair enough, but i meant the word 'patrol' in a fair way, not as an aggressive attack.



I do continue to enjoy ATS and its services, but it is not the same website it used to be.


What seems to have changed is that instead of alerting these problems and trying to involve staff in fixing them, you ignore them or just assume them to be the norm. The apathy displayed by those in question contributes more to the problem then the members themselves.

We cannot help the community unless they help us.


I alert most posts i deem to be contradictory to the T&C's of ATS. Perhaps other members do not, but it isn't stopping the moderators from looking over a thread every once in a while, or analysing other comments after an alert has been made within a thread. Generally when there is one T&C-breaking comment within a thread, there are bound to be more.


Here's a thread SO authored a while back, I think it fits in this case.

The Rise Of The ATS Invertebrate: or, it takes a spine to be a conspiracy theorist.

Be the change that you'd like to see. If these problems are so prevalent and everlasting then by all means, compile some examples and create an alert for staff to look at. I can't guarantee we will agree with you, but it will certainly be investigated.

~Tenth
ATS Super Mod


I have read over that thread before, and i do not believe myself to be thin-skinned nor spineless. I am just sick of the actions of specific members. I and many other members can deal with the average attack and rebuttal, but on the scale of what i have described today, it definitely needs more input from the moderators!



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 12:17 PM
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InquisitiveMind2012
reply to post by daaskapital
 


ATS was once a truly great site. Sadly, too many people under the age of 25 have joined. We all know that young people...

I just lurk on here and I have seen Phage get owned a few times and when he does, he shuts his mouth and says nothing.
He is far from stupid but he is not as smart as he thinks he is and I often wonder why so many people respect him?


Not just young people, old stubborn curmudgeons also can be that way..lol

And you are talking about a member, in a borderline insulting way.

I am not as smart as I think I am either.. lol



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 12:18 PM
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You kinda got a good point. Knowing a lot makes you egotistical. I tend to actually think I know mostly how the universe works, where it came from, and a general idea of where it's going, and even why it's going there. I'm pretty sure I'm right too. I wonder if I being right, makes someone else say who is of some other strange belief wrong? But that's another topic. Ya I think people come in and ask weird questions, some really don't know much about anything. I think we were all like that at some point. So what do we do with them? I try to inform people but often I find I'm sarcastic about it. But I don't know, what do I know. We're all just here for some reason or another. Who knows why. BEcause we have a lot of opinions about the world or something like that. And in real life we can't talk about this stuff with most people. If we do they think we're all crazy. But that's how sheeple live. How do you tell a sheeple that nothing is as it seems? They just laugh because they're cluless



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 12:23 PM
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HanzHenry

InquisitiveMind2012
reply to post by daaskapital
 




And you are talking about a member, in a borderline insulting way.


I was merely expressing an opinion and if Phage is offended or found it insulting, that is because it is the truth and I have bruised his ego.

Ps, I clicked quote by accident. I am tired due to working long hours and not giving my full concentration.



edit on 1/4/2014 by InquisitiveMind2012 because: No reason



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