Success for the Chemtrail program?

PlanetXisHERE
The Manhattan project had hundreds of scientists and thousands of people working on it.........and not one security breach.

History proves you wrong on that account, the Soviets had spies in the Manhattan Project almost from day one. This is where they were able to get practical information and accelerate the development of their own weapons program.

Morris Cohen – American, "Thanks to Cohen, designers of the Soviet atomic bomb got piles of technical documentation straight from the secret laboratory in Los Alamos," the newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda said. Morris and his wife, Lona, served eight years in prison, less than half of their sentences before being released in a prisoner swap with The Soviet Union. He died without revealing the name of the American scientist who helped pass vital information about the United States atomic bomb project. source

AugustusMasonicus

PlanetXisHERE
The Manhattan project had hundreds of scientists and thousands of people working on it.........and not one security breach.

History proves you wrong on that account, the Soviets had spies in the Manhattan Project almost from day one. This is where they were able to get practical information and accelerate the development of their own weapons program.

Morris Cohen – American, "Thanks to Cohen, designers of the Soviet atomic bomb got piles of technical documentation straight from the secret laboratory in Los Alamos," the newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda said. Morris and his wife, Lona, served eight years in prison, less than half of their sentences before being released in a prisoner swap with The Soviet Union. He died without revealing the name of the American scientist who helped pass vital information about the United States atomic bomb project. source

The public though had no idea about it and that is the analogy which is relevant to this thread, thanks for the info though, I did not know about what you posted.

PlanetXisHERE
The public though had no idea about it and that is the analogy which is relevant to this thread, thanks for the info though, I did not know about what you posted.

That is not the point. The program was compromised before it even started. The Soviets were recruiting spies specifically targeting the Atomic programs in the 1930's and were extremely successful, Cohen is one of many. Members of the United States public were aware of this, that is how the spy network was formed and operated, not all of the spies worked inside the project.

Using your analogy if this project was compromised in its infancy how does that apply to the current topic?

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE


I have been unable to locate the article I had in mind on Flights online archive so I will go through my own hard copies for it. I withdraw that point until I can support it. I know, should've waited

WonOunce
reply to post by DJW001

 

How do you know it is not working as intended? For all we know the temperatures could have risen much higher if not for chemtrails. The fact is no one has evidence for or against this, and not being open minded about the subject, well that's just the highest form of ignorance.

The fact that there is absolutely no evidence that "chemtrails" are anything other than the condensation of water vapor that naturally occurs when a jet engine operates under certain weather conditions suggests that there is no point in even speculating. To keep insisting that something might be true in the absence of any evidence for its existence is an even higher form of close minded ignorance.

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE


S&F. What an excellent thread! The perils of chemtrailing as geo-engineering and the side-effects that this effort could bring: that, imo, is what we face now. Will have to read your OP once more and then the replies - just wanted to let you know how important this topic is and how dear to my heart for our planet.

luxordelphi
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

 

S&F. What an excellent thread! The perils of chemtrailing as geo-engineering and the side-effects that this effort could bring: that, imo, is what we face now. Will have to read your OP once more and then the replies - just wanted to let you know how important this topic is and how dear to my heart for our planet.

Thank you luxordelphi for your ray of sunshine! I always enjoy your posts and threads when I come across them.

Most, except notably for DWJ001 have ignored my request to focus on the premise, which I realize is kind of buried in the OP, which is:

It seems we have gone from record warm weather to record cold weather in about 18 months. Since chemtrails have been around for more than a decade, it appears up until about 2012 they hadn't worked very well, but given the increase in chemtrails over the past year or so it seems like the program has surged/grown and it has finally worked in cooling the planet. Maybe it has been overdone?

And apart from prematurely starting another Ice Age, what are the other ramifications? - as you have mentioned.

waynos
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

 

I have been unable to locate the article I had in mind on Flights online archive so I will go through my own hard copies for it. I withdraw that point until I can support it. I know, should've waited

I appreciate the effort and the manning-up, I can respect that..........

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE


You said it yourself mate...the Earth has undergone MANY climactic swings over regular periods, spanning pretty much all of the history we can dig up.

Warm, tropical periods, cold glacial periods, millions of years of ice ages, mini ice ages, back to warm again and on and on in seemingly endless cycles.

I point-blank refuse to even entertain the idea of so-called 'man-made global warming' simply because anyone can discern neolithic man, all one or two million of them world-wide at the time, and their predecessors before them, could not light enough camp fires, remove enough trees or hunt enough game and fish to cause 'stone-age-man made global warming and climate change'...yet it still happened, throughout our entire history and pre-history.

Think about it.

This has been going on with our planet long before we were even here...it will continue while were here, and long after we've or natural events have killed us all off...ergo, while Humanity IS certainly responsible for terrible levels of pollution and environmental damage to ecosystems, much of this has happened during only the last century or so, and has absolutely no bearing on weather patterns, as history of weather and climate changes shows.

There is another reason for the chemtrail spraying programmes, not that i know what that reason or reasons are exactly, but while the easy cover deliberately circulated might well be global warming, tptb know these are natural cycles in temperature and weather fluctuations and that there's pretty much bugger all they can do about them without creating even more havoc with the weather if they tried in earnest to do so.

Sure they have dribbled at the bit anticipating being able to weaponise weather since the 1950's or 1960's...such a feat could not only bring armies down, but entire continents to their knees in a couple of short months..IF it could be perfected. Regardless, the history of our planet still shows, unequivocally, the Earth's weather and temperatures have and will change regardless of what we do or don't do.

As i say, environmental damage is very real and IS tptb's (decision makers) fault, in the drive for ever more wealth and control.

reply to post by MysterX

I point-blank refuse to even entertain the idea of so-called 'man-made global warming' simply because anyone can discern neolithic man, all one or two million of them world-wide at the time, and their predecessors before them, could not light enough camp fires, remove enough trees or hunt enough game and fish to cause 'stone-age-man made global warming and climate change'...yet it still happened, throughout our entire history and pre-history.

Think about it.

It has been thought about very deeply. The Earth goes through periodic "ice ages" due to something called the Milankovitch Cycle. In brief, ice ages occur when the precession of the Earth's axis and it's furthest distance from the Sun align just right. By this analysis, the Earth should be undergoing a cooling period over the next 25,000 years. Instead, the mean global temperature has been increasing. The most likely cause of this is the Greenhouse Effect. You may decide for yourself whether or not it is merely coincidence that this effect has been increasing exponentially as humanity has been industrializing, releasing "greenhouse gasses" into the atmosphere.

tsurfer2000h
reply to post by smurfy

 

Quite simply, no it is not. If you don't know all that goes in, you don't know all that comes out, plus any related unknown chemistry that may result.

But yet they do know what goes in jet fuel...

www.skybrary.aero...

www.exxonmobil.com...

So they also know what comes out.

No they don't, even your link says that if you look really hard.

DJW001

smurfy


We know that aircraft exhaust mostly contains carbon dioxide and water. The is the inevitable result of the fuel being mixed with oxygen. The water vapor condenses into a white cloud. If this did not happen, physical laws would be broken.

Actually it doesn't condense, in the scientific sense. Because the ambient air at cruise altitude is so intensely cold, the water vapor undgoes the process of deposition into ice crystals, which is the opposite of sublimation.

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE


OK. I read through the thread. Geo-engineering proposals, which would look just like chemtrailing when engaged, caution, essentially, 3 things:

1. Once you start, you can't stop or runaway warming will be the result
2. Too much, too fast could bring on a little ice age
3. We are abjectly ignorant about our own atmosphere and the chemistry and electro-magnetism therein

In the 1950's, with the advent of computers, psycho-cybernetics was born. Since that time, modeling - computer modeling - usage grew. The sophistication of this technique has made it so precise that we allow modeling to determine if new aircraft are safe. And yet all the sophisticated modeling that was done to predict our current climate is in the trash - just so much toilet paper. Our scientists, for the most part, are extremely conscientious and these faults in modeling results I don't attribute to them.

The earth has cycles - true. But these cycles are not phenomenal magic. There is a cause and there is an effect.

A 4th caution that those against geo-engineering (SRM - solar radiation management) give is that the solution to emission's environmental impact is cutting emissions, not more pollution. And that a fix of more pollution, in a poorly understood environment, is fraught with unknown chemical perils.

The big players in the debate on cutting emissions, obviously, have more information than we do. They pulled out the solar system is warming card and everything went away and became climate change.

BUT, PlanetXisHere, we have to pussy-foot around on this site, ignoring observation, embracing studied ignorance and arguing with moneyed agendas.

Love your thread! You go, guy/girl!

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

So now it is finally working, but much more noticeable.

In short

The long, feathery lines of condensation that form behind aircraft, called contrails, have more of an immediate warming effect on the Earth's surface than the carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases that the aircraft emit, a new study calculates.

www.livescience.com...

How do these net warming effect clouds bring lower temps?

DenyObfuscation
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

 

So now it is finally working, but much more noticeable.

In short

The long, feathery lines of condensation that form behind aircraft, called contrails, have more of an immediate warming effect on the Earth's surface than the carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases that the aircraft emit, a new study calculates.

www.livescience.com...

How do these net warming effect clouds bring lower temps?

It is a matter of scale. The thing is, and I guess the OP is doing it now, you really have to look hard into the info that is out there. In some ways that is the beauty of the Welsbach idea, put enough dirty shiite up there, and it will be enough to cool the planet ultimately, but also the after effects, (on populace) are 'unknown'.
It's no secret either that all the nuclear testing done, (after Hiroshima and Nagasaki) ?? in the middle of the 20th century did have an effect on Earth's climate in a similar way, and probably brought about gross weather patterns for a decade or so, and perhaps affecting people and places somewhere else, and also possibly affecting the data recorded then to make conclusions about today. How scientifically stupid was all that? and what did we do? Yup, we gave out gongs and medals and Nobels whatever!

reply to post by smurfy

It is a matter of scale.

I don't get it. How would more warming from more trails result in cooling?

I'll be back when ATS has a functional system of quotations.

DenyObfuscation
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

 

So now it is finally working, but much more noticeable.

In short

The long, feathery lines of condensation that form behind aircraft, called contrails, have more of an immediate warming effect on the Earth's surface than the carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases that the aircraft emit, a new study calculates.

www.livescience.com...

How do these net warming effect clouds bring lower temps?

You're talking about contrails having a warming greenhouse effect which I do not disagree with, but I'm talking about the atomized metallic particles such as barium and aluminum in chemtrails blocking the Sun's energy from ever reaching the earth - hence a cooling effect.

Try to keep your topics separate and it might be easier for you to keep up.

luxordelphi
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

 

OK. I read through the thread. Geo-engineering proposals, which would look just like chemtrailing when engaged, caution, essentially, 3 things:

1. Once you start, you can't stop or runaway warming will be the result
2. Too much, too fast could bring on a little ice age
3. We are abjectly ignorant about our own atmosphere and the chemistry and electro-magnetism therein

In the 1950's, with the advent of computers, psycho-cybernetics was born. Since that time, modeling - computer modeling - usage grew. The sophistication of this technique has made it so precise that we allow modeling to determine if new aircraft are safe. And yet all the sophisticated modeling that was done to predict our current climate is in the trash - just so much toilet paper. Our scientists, for the most part, are extremely conscientious and these faults in modeling results I don't attribute to them.

The earth has cycles - true. But these cycles are not phenomenal magic. There is a cause and there is an effect.

A 4th caution that those against geo-engineering (SRM - solar radiation management) give is that the solution to emission's environmental impact is cutting emissions, not more pollution. And that a fix of more pollution, in a poorly understood environment, is fraught with unknown chemical perils.

The big players in the debate on cutting emissions, obviously, have more information than we do. They pulled out the solar system is warming card and everything went away and became climate change.

BUT, PlanetXisHere, we have to pussy-foot around on this site, ignoring observation, embracing studied ignorance and arguing with moneyed agendas.

Love your thread! You go, guy/girl!

Thanks for your very thoughtful response Luxordelphi, it is too bad more people couldn't use their power of observation and do their own research instead of listening to anonymous posters on websites.

You're #2 is what my whole thread is about basically, that the PTB panicked in 2012 with the record warmth realizing the chemtrail program wasn't working and ramped up the program, to get to where we are now where it appears they have overshot and may be on the verge of ushering in that which they were trying to avoid - a new ice age. It will be interesting to see if we observe fewer chemtrails in the coming months and if then your #1 comes true.

Also, I found your somewhat related thread on geoengineering very intriguing, that basically, at least part of it, if I have it right, is the geoengineering is the perfect weapon because of the natural attributes of geoengineering it does not appear to be a weapon, just an act of nature.