Rich Catholics Threaten Pope Francis—Because He Frightens Them

OccamsRazor04

100% wrong, like almost everything you say. Please show me verses in the Bible where Jesus talked about world governments and their style of government and that they should change. I'll wait.

You say that his statement is 100% wrong, but you are not willing to provide proof yourself. Show me where Pope Francis has said that there should be one world government and what style of government it should be. He is proposing that all governments should take care of their people, which is supposedly the job of a government. I'll wait.

reply to post by DoUTrustTheLight


I appreciate your passion in the post I reference, but at the time of Christ, there were no Christians. The seed was sown and the roots were in those times, but Christianity came about almost 100 years later.

reply to post by wildtimes


Capitalism is the private ownership of means of production. When the pope spoke out against capitalism, it is implied, especially to billionaires, who nearly all own means of production, that the pope would steal (or take without asking) their property if given the chance. One person in this thread suggested that the threat to withdraw support should be taken as a death threat. However, anyone who learns that someone is threatening to take their property without permission should stop supporting that person. Furthermore, if someone attempts to take their things they should use whatever minimum force needed to stop the theft when practical.

I previously supported the pope, but now that he has implied he wishes to take away people's means of production without their permission I no longer support the pope and believe he is immoral, although less than previous popes. Taking personal property without permission is immoral.

People against capitalism should consider their anti-capitalist position is what enables governments to forcibly pry family farms away from families and convert them into a global government mega-farms.

reply to post by fractal2


Read my last post in this thread.

I am sick half to death of the capitalists and wealthy calling it "stealing" - and especially when someone claims to be "Catholic" while hoarding wealth, and then 'threatens' to withhold all help whatsoever - I am appalled.

A person who is genuinely following the teachings of Jesus (whether or not he existed is irrelevant; it is the MESSAGE that is important) would not begrudge the poor, hungry, suffering people of the world. They would help, with no regard to what it "costs" them.

So, you didn't like what the Pope had to say? Okay fine.

Perhaps there should be an "income level" that is no longer allowed to be in church. Like there are no food stamps for people above a certain income level. It's fraud, either way. Welfare fraud is a problem? Okay. How about religious/principle fraud?

BTW: Welcome to ATS! Just noticed this was your first post.

reply to post by wildtimes


Why is it a bad idea to call the taking of people's property (including means of production) without permission stealing?

A farm is a means of production. If you believe that individuals should be able to own a farm, then you are a capitalist by the most commonly cited definition. Do you think individuals should be able to own a farm (one means of production)?

The church should allow everyone to go to church, including axe murderers, so long as they are properly shackled. The church's job is to help people in need, including axe murderers and billionaires. Jesus taught people not to judge. Jesus hung out with socially rejected people, which today would apparently include billionaires.

reply to post by fractal2

The church's job is to help people in need, including axe murderers and billionaires.

What does a billionaire 'need'?

Jesus taught people not to judge. Jesus hung out with socially rejected people, which today would apparently include billionaires.

Sorry, all I can offer this is an eyeroll. *eyeroll*

As for farms, of course people - individuals - should be able to have farms.


Billionaires have more than they need; why should others have less than they need?
Anyway, "stealing" is different from "taxation". I see nothing wrong with the uber-wealthy being taxed in order to keep society alive; they'd still have plenty to survive on, as would their heirs....

Did you lose a family farm or something? If so, sorry. I'm aware of how capitalism works. I just don't see the logic in the very few having EVERYTHING, and the vast majority suffering so that the billionaires can do so.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

100% wrong, like almost everything you say. Please show me verses in the Bible where Jesus talked about world governments and their style of government and that they should change. I'll wait.

Provide proof that I am wrong. No need to wait any longer.

Romans 13:1
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Romans 13:6
This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
Psalm 72:4
Help him to defend the poor, to rescue the children of the needy, and to crush their oppressors.

reply to post by wildtimes


The rich don't care about the poor. They don't give money to the church for use 'towards the poor.' They give money because of guilt or bribery. If they truly wanted to help the poor, they wouldn't be giving millions to rich old men who already have made their intentions very clear. There are some within the church who do good, most it seems, are only out for themselves. I am starting to get this creeping feeling with this new Pope. I hope I am wrong.

reply to post by gamesmaster63


I say Christians in thought of any one following Christ, you are right about the 1AD time frame. In my head they were all Christians, they just didn't know it yet.

reply to post by buster2010


You do realize that the verses you listed support my position and not yours right?

Jhn 18:36
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

When did Jesus condemn Caesar for spending his money wrong, or having the wrong form of government? I'll wait.

wildtimes
reply to post by fractal2

 

Taxation is taking people's money without their permission, generally with the implied threat of destroying someone's life if they perpetually refuse on moral grounds. Agreed or disagreed? Answer that one point blank instead of avoiding my questions.

People who need church the most are immoral people. By your own words, billionaires are immoral people. In all your elitism you wish to ban people from church who by your very own assessment need it the most. And you actually have the gall to roll your eyes at the concept of equality? You need to rethink you're position from an elitist one into an equal rights position of tolerance if you like a conistent believe system.

A few people having everything is related to capitalism? Socialism and anti-captialism have been the prevailing trend since FDR. So we have a rise in anti-capitalism, rise in government regulations, a rise in socialism, and oh, whats this, a rise in the rich-poor gap across nearly all modern nations. I don't know anyplace more anti-capitalist than Venezuela. Tell me how the poor are getting much better off and the rich-poor gap is shrinking there. By your measure surely the poor must be doing wonderfully compared to Singapore and New Zealand which have the lowest levels of anti-captialism in the world, and yet still have plenty of anti-captialism.

It seems like the wealthiest people are either directly connected to government or extremely and directly benefiting from government policies. Warren Buffet and Bill Gates, the two richest people in the USA and shameless liberal Democrats, are well connected to the government. Look through the richest people in the world list and there is a trend.

reply to post by wildtimes


If Langone didn't feel some truth to the statement he wouldn't of felt so heated about it. Besides the picture is bigger then him in being pious and donation. Long one if your listening. They're is a happy balance in all things. And I once read when you put yourself in great diversity is when your closest to Christ. Maybe you should donate it all! Or a third extra until you don't feel this way anymore.

buster2010
No he isn't overreaching his area. His job is to preach the gospel. People seem to overlook that Jesus was real big on the help the poor advice. The Pope is just doing his job and people don't like it because they don't like the truth.

The Church establishing a world wide tax isn't 'preaching the gospel'. It's over reaching into the area of politics and international finance (which is different from internal church finances) It's establishing slavery to the church/state via people being forced to hand over money to an international finance group. (and who would run the money from this mega tax? The Catholic church? Really? The UN? Just as corrupt!!)

The Church preaching the gospel that people should give FREE WILL donations of time and finances to the poor ... now THAT is what the church should be doing.

reply to post by wildtimes


They are just doing their jobs, fighting against change. They put a lot of work into twisting culture into their own direction.

Remember most of the fantastic BS is for show to meet ends unrelated to the shows appearance.

Early on, many Catholic monks and nuns took vows of poverty. But many priests came from very wealthy families, so wealth and the Catholic church is nothing new.

Yes, I am back, not so Warm in Indy today, sitting in the deep freeze right now.

The Renaissance introduced the new, massive wealth of the Church, but before that it was still struggling to find a real foothold. Yes, the Inquisition was in the Middle Ages, but not all of Europe was converted at that time. It was the Renaissance that really brought the power of the Church into control. Perhaps the new pope is a throwback to the earlier times, but yet this new pope is also from Argentina. I think that might be the key to understanding this.

Argentina has been a poor country and Pope Francis is most likely a Social Gospel proponent, the kind that introduced Socialism and Communism to various Latin American countries, so his message is most likely stemming from that viewpoint.

While this billionaire seems whiny and aggressive, I sit here reminded of Peyton Manning, formerly of the Indianapolis Colts and now of the Denver Broncos. The Riley Childrens Hospital is called Peyton Manning Center, because he was wealthy and contributed a lot of funds, to keep his name relevant. He pretended to be so caring and loyal to Indianapolis, but as soon as Tim Tebow became popular, what did Manning do? He went to Denver, throwing away all the "loyalty" from Indianapolis.

But think about this, while we are here criticizing wealthy Catholics for not "sharing the wealth", think about the billionaire sports stars and celebrities. While we are arguing about them, consider this, a city asks the populace to pay taxes to build a new stadium, that the ticket prices then go so high one can barely afford them, raising revenue for the franchise, and little for the city. The city then decides they don't like the team, the owners sell it to another city, then buy a team again for the city. All the time, the franchise is making billions of dollars.

But here we are criticizing men like Langdone for "whining", but then 3/4 of the nation will watch the Superbowl, drool over a singer that is barely clad and advertisers clamor for a 30 second spot. But yet in those three hours of mindless entertainment, how much do we complain about the obscene wealth of the athletes and the owners? How many billions of dollars went into this one night of the year?

I don't think it's fair to keep charging wealthy Catholics for not sharing, but at the same time, throw Superbowl parties and watch people on tv that paid at least $1,500 for a ticket. How many homeless people are fed that night? How many homeless people are given shelter? NONE.

I think we simply like to notice the wealth of religious people because we don't like religion, and yet sports is a religion in itself, athletes are idolized and venerated to the point they are worshipped. People buy jerseys with their favorite players, people are quick to dump their hard earned money into a franchise of obscene wealth without even considering the wealth displayed by the owners and athletes.

If we start demanding that wealthy Catholics share what they have, I say every athlete and celebrity have the same demands placed onto them. The NFL is a free enterprise based on free market Capitalism, so why not complain about them as well?

Wow, rich Catholics threaten extortion against the Pope and the Catholic Church for his preaching the gospels of Jesus. Who would'a thunk?

I say His Holiness -- note, I've never seen fit to call any other Pope this -- ought to excommunicate the mofo's.

reply to post by WarminIndy

If we start demanding that wealthy Catholics share what they have, I say every athlete and celebrity have the same demands placed onto them. The NFL is a free enterprise based on free market Capitalism, so why not complain about them as well?

Works for me!!

Don't even get me started on the "sports" aspect. I think it's sickening how much money is poured into, and made by, the NFL and fans. Appalling. And worst of all, the NFL is a "non-profit" organization!!????


Riiiiiiight.

GLAD YOU'RE BACK, INDY!! Missed your input!

You can't be much of a catholic and have this negative attitude towards the pope, can you? Isn't faith in the pope as being a sort on intermediary between us and god sort of part of the faith?

reply to post by wildtimes


Do you mean "Anti-pope" Francis?

reply to post by wildtimes


Well, do the rich NOT thrive off of their riches, flaunt them before all, and then go to church on Sunday? It's offensive to them. Now, if somebody would teach them the TRUTH...