Growing up unvaccinated: This is what happens when your parents refuse

reply to post by hiddencode


Excuse you but where exactly did I say that I am still in the military? You do understand not everyone makes a lifelong career out of the military.

I swear this thread has been a prime example of how a large portion of the population cant seem to absorb information. Three times in this thread i have had to correct posters that thought the OP was about me. They obviously didn't understand when I kept referring to HER story or SHE knew people that suffered.

Now you think I am active duty because I said I was a soldier. You know when I stated us military hardly ever GOT sick that sentence refers to a past tense otherwise it would say us military hardly ever GET sick=present tense.

Anyway you dodge the point entirely by trying to defame me because of past affiliation. How do you explain the fact military members who have no choice but get vaccinated do not have the adverse reactions you state are common?

hiddencode
By the way Grimpachi, I've studied vaccines for many years, so if you'd like any studies just let me know.

hiddencode
Now that you've mentioned you're in the military it makes it particularly difficult to take your thread seriously, as we on ATS have already read lots about how their are 1000's of posters in military bases who are posting this type of information as part of their role, that's not to say that you are a paid poster, however your post did look like it could potentially be propaganda.

Anyway, for the sake of argument let's assume your post is legit, it's still only a sample size of one so is not statistically significant. In all of the studies which have been done so far the unvaccinated have come out on top of the vaccinated.

Grimpachi
Funny how us military hardly ever got sick yet we all had mandatory vaccines that pretty much destroys your arguments that vaccines make you sick.

Well I would appreciate it if you would study english a little more. If one is an indication of your other studies then I pretty sure I know more about them than you. The nonsense you have been spewing I have seen the source material in prior debates and must say you have been quite deluded. Reaching people like yourself is probably a lost cause if you couldn't discern good science from pseudo science when doing your "research" then it has been my experience that no amount of factual information will get through to you.

A few simple points regarding flu shots....

(a) They are only the dead shell of the top viruses TPTB think might lead to pneumonia. ( a calculated guess )


(b) They can give you flu like symptoms. While your body produces its response ( lock and key defense system ).

But because it is not alive ,it can not produce a life threatening secondary infection.


(c) They often recommend them at the time of year they are least likely to cause you inconvenience and catch another real virus at the same time.



(4) As with any introduced foreign body. A small % of the population could have a severe reaction.




Please note : I think for the average healthy person they not necessary. But these in no way should be compared to shots that protect you from diseases your body has no chance of fighting.

reply to post by hiddencode


This year we have had Fluzone, Fluarix, Afluria, and the High Dose version of Fluzone. These are all fairly standard brands. Fluzone is made by Sanofi Pasteur, Fluarix is made by GlaxoSmithKline, and Afluria is made by Merck.

Even though you'll argue with my source here is an overview of the current flu season. As you can clearly see flu cases didn't really start to spike until the last few weeks of 2013. I'm having trouble finding stats on amount of flu shots given based on time. If we're slow tomorrow I can go ahead and at least pull the numbers of flu shots we did each month to show that most flu shots are given in October and November if you don't believe me on this. As someone on the front lines though, I can conclusively state that the flu vaccine is not spreading the flu.

Just read an article about a 15 year-old who developed narcolepsy as a result of being administered a flu vaccine. She is apparently one of at least 100 people who developed the condition after taking the vaccine during a flu pandemic. Now, you might say "well 100 people is an incredibly small number when put in context" but even so, when more than a handful of people respond this way it is cause for concern.

A UK teenager who developed the sleep disorder narcolepsy after being given a swine flu vaccine is hoping treatment with an experimental drug will help her.

Chloe Glasson, from southern Scotland, began falling asleep 30 times a day just four months after receiving the vaccine Pandemrix in November 2009, the Daily Mail reports.

The 15-year-old is one of at least 100 people estimated to have developed narcolepsy after taking the vaccine during a flu pandemic.

Falling asleep without warning has made life difficult and potentially dangerous, Chloe told the newspaper.

She said she often falls asleep in class and recently went missing for two hours after going into “dream-like autopilot” on a short trip to her grandmother’s house.

“She has gone from being a bright, outgoing girl to one who cannot go out on her own,” Chloe’s mother Rebecca told the newspaper.

(Link)

reply to post by Dark Ghost


I'm sorry but what's the connection between the flu shot and narcolepsy? The article clearly states that the two events occurred four months apart. A flu shot takes about two weeks to reach maximum effectiveness. Why would it then take another three and a half months for a side effect to manifest. It should also be pointed out that narcolepsy generally first manifests in adolescence and young adulthood. So who's to say this was not a naturally occurring case of narcolepsy?

Pardon?

MOSTwanted
reply to post by Pardon?

 

Don't you see that you can't even sue the vaccine manufacturers? They are immune. Do u know any other companies immune from selling poison? You must support no labeling requirements on Gmo's. Because you believe what any organization tells you that has a lot of financial backing and the ability to bribe others to support their agenda. The stats in my post are unacceptable and although it's slanted in support of vaccines, how can you ignore the facts contained therein

You CAN sue them though.
You can sue them if there's a problem with the vaccine e'g. if it's faulty.
You can sue them if you're not happy with the vaccine court's decision, granted, it's much harder to do but you can.
To turn the rest of your "argument" around...
Do you know of any other anti-health propagandists who put compensation money before a child's welfare?
You must support any old nonsense from "alternative" sites as it suits your agenda against "the man".

Using numbers of litigation cases as proof of a medical outcome is fallacious in the extreme, especially using American law.
Would you ask your lawyer to diagnose an illness for you?

And again, using your debating technique, how can you ignore the stats and the facts from the link I posted?

You're not getting it...Guess who pays the victims in vaccine court? TAXPAYERS. That's right. Vaccine manufacturers have complete immunity. Sheesh wonder why you can't just sue them in civil court? Look at all the injury claims denied! Do u think that sends a message? With a low case win rate do u think attorneys are going to go to battle with the corporation that licenses them?
The United states is a corporation, it is NOT a nation nor was it ever intended to be in the constitution. You live in a bubble, it's called the U.S. and its a corporation. You're identity is a creation of a corporation. And guess what you are? The product and property of a corporation. Nothing more than a mere well trained slave, so we'll you don't have a clue. But you are: every decision made for you, your tomorrow perfectly predictable and mundane, you blindly assume, because you have no real knowledge derived from Self.And you won't understand this, because it is derived outside of the bubble. You live underwater, under statute, like a fish in a pond. Have a nice day

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Well that certainly seems to be a real concern however it should be noted that those whom it is trigered in already have a disposition to it.

Scientists have found that the sleep disorder narcolepsy can sometimes be triggered by a scientific phenomenon known as "molecular mimicry," offering a possible explanation for its link to a GlaxoSmithKline H1N1 pandemic flu vaccine.

Results from U.S. researchers showed the debilitating disorder, characterized by sudden sleepiness and muscle weakness, can be set off by an immune response to a portion of a protein from the H1N1 virus that is very similar to a region of a protein called hypocretin, which is key to narcolepsy.

This can happen in genetically susceptible people, the researchers said, adding that around 20 percent of the European population have the genetic profile making them vulnerable.

Previous studies in countries where GSK's Pandemrix vaccine was used in the 2009/2010 flu pandemic have found its use was linked to a significant rise in cases of narcolepsy in children.

Studies in Britain, Finland, Sweden and Ireland found such a link, and GSK says at least 900 narcolepsy cases associated with the vaccine have so far been reported in Europe.
Narcolepsy is thought to be brought about by loss of function in "wakefulness" cells called hypocretin cells in one of the brain's sleep centres.


link

As the H1N1 swine flu pandemic swept the world in 2009, China saw a spike in cases of narcolepsy — a mysterious disorder that involves sudden, uncontrollable sleepiness. Meanwhile, in Europe, around 1 in 15,000 children who were given Pandemrix — a now-defunct flu vaccine that contained fragments of the pandemic virus — also developed narcolepsy, a chronic disease.

Immunologist Elizabeth Mellins and narcolepsy researcher Emmanuel Mignot at Stanford University School of Medicine in California and their collaborators have now partly solved the mystery behind these events, while also confirming a longstanding hypothesis that narcolepsy is an autoimmune disease, in which the immune system attacks healthy cells.

Narcolepsy is mostly caused by the gradual loss of neurons that produce hypocretin, a hormone that keeps us awake. Many scientists had suspected that the immune system was responsible, but the Stanford team has found the first direct evidence: a special group of CD4+ T cells (a type of immune cell) that targets hypocretin and is found only in people with narcolepsy.


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“Up till now, the idea that narcolepsy was an autoimmune disorder was a very compelling hypothesis, but this is the first direct evidence of autoimmunity,” says Mellins. “I think these cells are a smoking gun.” The study is published today in Science Translational Medicine1.

Thomas Scammell, a neurologist at Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts, says that the results are welcome after “years of modest disappointment”, marked by many failures to find antibodies made by a person's body against their own hypocretin. “It’s one of the biggest things to happen in the narcolepsy field for some time.”
link

Hopefully scientists in the field will be able to find a work around to where this will not be an issue in the future either way at some point genetic testing will advance enough where people can be prescreened to find out if they have that genetic predisposition.

I have to say you are the first one in the thread who has actually brought a real concern up dealing with vaccines. Wish I could give you more than one star.

The one thing that I think should be noted is there is no coverup which goes against what the anti-vacc claim. A real issue has been found and it is acknowledged.

Pardon?

hudsonhawk69

Baddogma
reply to post by hudsonhawk69

 

The risk is to other unvaccinated folks and kids and, of course, the few vaccinated kids and adults that weren't adequately protected by their vaccinations, which admittedly happens.

Huh! How about that. The only risk is to other unvaccinated people OR to people for who this potentially Dangerous cocktail (read the brochure) hasn't EVEN worked?!? Wouldn't I just be a regular crazy person then???

The danger isn't to my kids, btw, as they are non existent and/or decomposing in various landfills and sewers, wrapped in latex shrouds.

And yes, my butt frequently hurts, thank you for inquiring. I hope you will look into it for me.

No vaccine (or any other medicine for that matter) is 100% effective.
I would doubt that there would ever be one that was 100% effective 100% of the time.
The other people who you have to factor in are those who because of an existing condition cannot be vaccinated (for instance those who have a pre-existing allergy to the ingredients or those who are immuno-compromised e.g those on chaemotherapy etc).
Where do these people sit in your opinion as these are the ones who are more likely to suffer if they contract a preventable disease?
Since the topic has moved onto rights and freedom of choice what rights and freedom of choice do these people have as they rely on a everyone being vaccinated to convey protection from these diseases.

Should we then remove the rights of the masses in favor of a select few? Clearly you would...

As for vaccines being a dangerous cocktail, well the evidence says exactly the opposite so you are misinformed.
Which brings me back to the freedom of choice....choice should be made solely upon evidence and proper information.
If a choice is made due to misinformation that's when it becomes the wrong choice.
So, if there's a large enough body of people consistently making that wrong choice and convincing others to do the same, the only real option is to remove that choice is it not?

The fact that I interpret the available information differently from you does not make me misinformed. It simply makes me different from you. There is no need to be so "I know what's best for you" judgmental about it.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Look to the extent that they are downplaying it though...

VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

Look to the extent that they are downplaying it though...

Sorry I don't see what you claim please explain.

thedeadtruth
reply to post by hudsonhawk69

 

I did not mention any brochure ? was that a sad attempt to deflect the question......


I am specifically talking about your boast on here that you are smart enough to make life and death decisions for your children.

This is your chance to prove it.



How solid is that conviction of yours ?





" The people who put fences at the top of cliffs are smarter than those who fell off "

Are you so arrogant and elitist that you are suggesting that I am unable to decide what is best for my children? Stop wasting my time.

thedeadtruth
The sense of self entitlement shown by some people on this discussion I find simply disgusting. It is the kind of sense of self entitlement I expect from a Gen Y .


No community spirit.
No sense of duty to others.
ZERO respect for those who developed the very drugs . technology that has decreased our infant death rate.




How long you been alive. Using other peoples ideas / inventions to stay alive the from the time you are born to the time you die.

Can you show me your contribution to the world ? Your inventions to help others. Or is it all about You ?

All about what YOU and your CHOICE to USE .


See those words people.... ME, ME ,MINE , MY CHOICE, USE . USER......

These words do not make the world a better place. No matter how you like to wrap it up.

Neither does your attitude. Get off your high horse sunshine.

DJW001
reply to post by VeritasAequitas

 

Who are you to say that I, who have never been vaccinated nor have I succumbed to any of that BS/sickness, should be mandatorily vaccinated or injected with viruses, dead or not, against my will? Seriously you kind of communists need your heads exam'd...

You are a freeloader. You have never caught a contagious disease because other people have prevented their spread by acting as a firewall. Vaccinations are like firewalls. If everyone were as selfish as you are there would be even more pain, suffering and death in the world than there already is.

Pain, suffering and death are a natural part of life sweetheart. Man up.

thedeadtruth
I would love to think people have earned the right to make choices for their children. Through self awareness, critical thinking and education.

But sometimes the answers and facts are staring you right in the face...


Go out to a shopping mall or school. For every child you see that is clinically obese ( 40% of the population at 33% body fat and above ). There is at least two parents who are too stupid and lazy to feed that child properly and exercise them.


But its their "right" to be bad parents right ?

Yes it is their god given right to be "bad parents". It is however not their god given right to be bailed out by free healthcare. People are just as entitled to experience the outcome of their decisions...

thedeadtruth
reply to post by toastyr

 

Yes it is 100% the parents fault.

Unless the child has a job and buying its own food. Then who is buying all the rubbish you mention. The Easter bunny ?



Stop making excuses for bad decisions people make in the land of freedom.

And what are your qualifications that you should dictate the manner of others lives??? Please forgive me! I did not know that the messiah WALKS among us!!!

thedeadtruth
Sorry. Not trying to derail thread.

Just proving a point. ...... It does not matter what topic we are discussing regarding health. Some people will always rather blame big pharma , food companies etc.... for their woes.

Always someone else's fault......... deny ignorance indeed.



Judging from behind my desk ?


How about judging from behind my mortuary table where I specialize in morbid obesity embalming. And the fitness center I do free work for lower socio-economic morbidly obese people . Out of my own pocket.

All my work. Including the machines I build, based on my reaction against the mindless medical fraternities failure to do anything practical and useful.

Judging is judging no matter how you dress it up o great and wise one. Please forgive me and do not smite me for my ignorance. I cannot know what I do not know...

It's kind of funny.. we are scorning now what was a critical necessity in the past. When I went to the Box conference this year, Malcolm Gladwell was a speaker (and he was quite excellent). He talked about some work from his latest book, in which Dr. Jay Freireich bent the rules to try to cure a disease (leukemia) using incredibly harsh methods on children. Basically bringing them to deaths door and back again.. every month.. for two years.

But people forget the alternative. Those children in the wards he was trying to save were dying within 6 weeks. Bleeding from every orifice. No cure, no hope.. painful and deadly. Nurses would go to work dressed in white, and go home red from all the blood from the children who could not stop bleeding. They could not eat or drink.. bleeding from the nose, mouth, throat, stool.. they were dead as soon as they were admitted. Painful and horrible.

He basically created a cocktail of deadly fixes.. each almost as bad as the disease. Four of them.. each causing their own issues. But he kept at it.. until they created what is now considered the cure. Children no longer bleed to death from this disease before they even have a chance to live, because of his efforts.

But people forget this. They think all these cures that were born from desperate attempts to save suffering children and adults are some grand evil scheme to kill humanity. Not realizing that most of these cures were made to save you from something so much worse.

Lice00

hiddencode
This is why it's much better to catch the mild childhood illnesses as nature intended, your immune system has evolved over thousands of years, you descend from the survivors; if you live in the first world and are well nourished then the vaccines are by far a greater risk than the childhood diseases.

edit on 6-1-2014 by hiddencode because: (no reason given)

Not really at all, many of us came from parents who had vaccinations and from people who never came in contact with the things people are vaccinated against. But like i said earlier this problem of stupidity will sort itself out over time. Stupid people will not get their kids vaccinated and some of them will die because of it and the stupid will not continue

It's called "Natural selection". A concept that I have no issue with. However there is no need for name calling here sunshine.

Xcalibur254
I'm sorry but what's the connection between the flu shot and narcolepsy? The article clearly states that the two events occurred four months apart. A flu shot takes about two weeks to reach maximum effectiveness. Why would it then take another three and a half months for a side effect to manifest. It should also be pointed out that narcolepsy generally first manifests in adolescence and young adulthood. So who's to say this was not a naturally occurring case of narcolepsy?

You should have another read of the article. Is it mere coincidence that 100 unique individuals developed the same disorder in the few months after taking the same flue vaccine? I doubt it.

Still not convinced? Have a look at these articles:

* Swine flu vaccine can trigger narcolepsy, UK government concedes
* Could swine flu vaccine cause narcolepsy? Scientists probe link between drug and increase in cases
* Scientists start to unpick narcolepsy link to GSK flu vaccine
* Flu Vaccine-Narcolepsy Link Explained?